force feed back wheel

Hi, I'm fan of car simulation an i would like to by a force feed back wheel... I already hear these comments : - The new thrumaster is not very good - The microsoft is good - the actlab is very good - the others are bad Could you tell me what you think about that and your sensation of gamer if you try one of them Thanks Jean Christophe :-) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

And the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, minus the pedals, is the best. :)

Logitech's Wingman Formula Force USB is the best. Get all of your FF question answered at the forum at http://www.force-1.com/ -- Remove "spam jammer" to reply Why feed the beast? Get StarOffice 5.1 for free! Fully compatible with Word 97. For Windows, Linux, Java and more: http://www.stardivision.com/ My Yahoo! messenger ID is sim-racer.

I have the USB Actlabs and it is wonderful, and the guys there are some of the best I have ever delt with.

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> Logitech's Wingman Formula Force USB is the best. Get all of your FF > question answered at the forum at http://www.force-1.com/ > -- > Remove "spam jammer" to reply > Why feed the beast? Get StarOffice 5.1 for free! > Fully compatible with Word 97. > For Windows, Linux, Java and more: > http://www.stardivision.com/ > My Yahoo! messenger ID is sim-racer. > > Hi, > > I'm fan of car simulation an i would like to by a force feed back > > wheel... > > I already hear these comments : > > - The new thrumaster is not very good > > - The microsoft is good > > - the actlab is very good > > - the others are bad > > Could you tell me what you think about that and your sensation of gamer > > if you try one of them > > Thanks > > Jean Christophe :-) > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Just a question, if you minus the pedals, how can it be the best?

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>And the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, minus the pedals, is the best. :) >> Hi, >> I'm fan of car simulation an i would like to by a force feed back >> wheel... >> I already hear these comments : >> - The new thrumaster is not very good >> - The microsoft is good >> - the actlab is very good >> - the others are bad >> Could you tell me what you think about that and your sensation of gamer >> if you try one of them >> Thanks >> Jean Christophe :-) >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

you can use a different set of pedals (like the CH ones) plugged into the gameport with it..... at least in GPL >Just a question, if you minus the pedals, how can it be the best? >And the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, minus the pedals, is the best. :)

The Saitek R4 Force wheel is highly underrated, and it's a real bargain right now -- you can reportedly get a refurbished one from Saitek (complete with warranty) for $75 US. The Saitek wheel is a digital wheel that features the same electronics as the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback wheel -- for MUCH less money. Check out our review of the Saitek R4 Force wheel for a more detailed look at what it has to offer: http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/saitek/ -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:19:00 GMT, Jean-Christophe

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>Hi, >I'm fan of car simulation an i would like to by a force feed back >wheel... >I already hear these comments : > - The new thrumaster is not very good > - The microsoft is good > - the actlab is very good > - the others are bad >Could you tell me what you think about that and your sensation of gamer >if you try one of them >Thanks > Jean Christophe :-) >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

>The Saitek R4 Force wheel is highly underrated, and it's a real >bargain right now -- you can reportedly get a refurbished one from >Saitek (complete with warranty) for $75 US. The Saitek wheel is a >digital wheel that features the same electronics as the Microsoft >Sidewinder Force Feedback wheel -- for MUCH less money. I don't really see that as much of a bargain on a re-furb. I paid $30 more for a brand new Formula Force. Not trying to be argumentative, I thought the same thing when I saw the original Saitek post. Tim

$30 makes a big difference to tightwad bargain-seekers like myself! <G> Seriously, though, a Force Feedback wheel as nice as the Saitek for the same price as your average non-FF wheel is truly a bargain. Granted, a LWFF wheel for only $30 more is also a bargain, but the Saitek wheel has a couple of features the LWFF wheel doesn't: 1) It uses a standard MIDI-compatible joystick port, found on most sound cards, so you don't need to worry about having a spare COM port; 2) It has both paddle shifters and a stick shift, so you can choose which to use; 3) It has a nifty height-adjustment feature for the wheel (think "tilt wheel" on a smaller scale); 4) The Saitek pedals may not be the greatest thing since sliced butter, but they are of a bit more conventional design than the LWFF pedals -- not necessarily better, mind you, but Thrustmaster owners should have no problem adapting to the Saitek pedals; 5) Your wife won't be quite as mad when you tell her that, "It has a suggested retail price of $199, and CompUSA sells it for $175, but I picked it up for $75, so I actually saved us money. Why don't you go buy yourself a new pair of shoes or something on me!"; and 6) As a refurbished item, it's already experienced a breakdown of soe sort that's been repaired by the factory, so you won't have to worry about infant mortality failures or a device that doesn't work right out of the box because someone forgot something simple like a broken spring on the pedal or the fact that someone might have overlooked the need to solder a wire in place properly or such. Most manufacturers scrutinize refurbed items more closely than they do the new items rolling off the assembly line -- so they may be more trouble-free, in addition to being less expensive. Also, FWIW, a co-worker of mine bought one of these refurbished wheels from Saitek, and you can't tell the difference between it and the new one we have in the office, so the refurbished angle shouldn't be a deterrent in and of itself. The bottom line is that the true tightwad bargain-seekers or those on a tight budget will probably be delighted with a refurbished Saitek wheel -- and the $30 price difference betwen the LWFF and the Saitek wheel means that for $105 you could have either a LWFF wheel or a Saitek R4 Force wheel AND the full retail version of Viper Racing plus $5 change. That makes my checkbook smile. ;-) -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

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>>The Saitek R4 Force wheel is highly underrated, and it's a real >>bargain right now -- you can reportedly get a refurbished one from >>Saitek (complete with warranty) for $75 US. The Saitek wheel is a >>digital wheel that features the same electronics as the Microsoft >>Sidewinder Force Feedback wheel -- for MUCH less money. >I don't really see that as much of a bargain on a re-furb. >I paid $30 more for a brand new Formula Force. >Not trying to be argumentative, I thought the same thing when I saw >the original Saitek post. >Tim

I didn't find the pedals in any of the FF wheels, or at least the top of the heap ones like the MSFF, Act Labs or LWFF, all that great. And I really do like the LWFF wheel and its feedback (althought a bit weaker than some of the others) the most, its very very smooth. I replaced the LWFF's pedals with some old T2 ones I liked better. But you can also shove a T2 or other wheel, CH Pedals, etc into your gameport, or as another USB device, etc and use those in GPL instead of the LWFF pedals.

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> Just a question, if you minus the pedals, how can it be the best? > >And the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, minus the pedals, is the best. :) > >> Hi, > >> I'm fan of car simulation an i would like to by a force feed back > >> wheel... > >> I already hear these comments : > >> - The new thrumaster is not very good > >> - The microsoft is good > >> - the actlab is very good > >> - the others are bad > >> Could you tell me what you think about that and your sensation of gamer > >> if you try one of them > >> Thanks > >> Jean Christophe :-) > >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

USB is even better. :) A plus, but note that the ACT Labs has a additional H-pattern shifter which is getting industry support. I'd almost go get the ACT Labs wheel just for that, especially now that they have USB wheels. :) Either that or you can rewire them. Too bad its not USB or uses a COM port, then you could run an additional set of pedals too. IF you can stand how ugly the damn thing is and the unconventional shape of the steering wheel. And I already have Viper, so I'll take a conventional shaped wheel and USB support. :)

Can the saited ff wheel be used with ch pedals? A fellow tightwad wishes to know ;-) Dolle Dolf

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> $30 makes a big difference to tightwad bargain-seekers like myself! > <G> > Seriously, though, a Force Feedback wheel as nice as the Saitek for > the same price as your average non-FF wheel is truly a bargain. > Granted, a LWFF wheel for only $30 more is also a bargain, but the > Saitek wheel has a couple of features the LWFF wheel doesn't: > 1) It uses a standard MIDI-compatible joystick port, found on most > sound cards, so you don't need to worry about having a spare COM port; > 2) It has both paddle shifters and a stick shift, so you can choose > which to use; > 3) It has a nifty height-adjustment feature for the wheel (think "tilt > wheel" on a smaller scale); > 4) The Saitek pedals may not be the greatest thing since sliced > butter, but they are of a bit more conventional design than the LWFF > pedals -- not necessarily better, mind you, but Thrustmaster owners > should have no problem adapting to the Saitek pedals; > 5) Your wife won't be quite as mad when you tell her that, "It has a > suggested retail price of $199, and CompUSA sells it for $175, but I > picked it up for $75, so I actually saved us money. Why don't you go > buy yourself a new pair of shoes or something on me!"; and > 6) As a refurbished item, it's already experienced a breakdown of soe > sort that's been repaired by the factory, so you won't have to worry > about infant mortality failures or a device that doesn't work right > out of the box because someone forgot something simple like a broken > spring on the pedal or the fact that someone might have overlooked the > need to solder a wire in place properly or such. Most manufacturers > scrutinize refurbed items more closely than they do the new items > rolling off the assembly line -- so they may be more trouble-free, in > addition to being less expensive. > Also, FWIW, a co-worker of mine bought one of these refurbished wheels > from Saitek, and you can't tell the difference between it and the new > one we have in the office, so the refurbished angle shouldn't be a > deterrent in and of itself. > The bottom line is that the true tightwad bargain-seekers or those on > a tight budget will probably be delighted with a refurbished Saitek > wheel -- and the $30 price difference betwen the LWFF and the Saitek > wheel means that for $105 you could have either a LWFF wheel or a > Saitek R4 Force wheel AND the full retail version of Viper Racing plus > $5 change. That makes my checkbook smile. ;-) > -- John Bodin > Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/ > >>The Saitek R4 Force wheel is highly underrated, and it's a real > >>bargain right now -- you can reportedly get a refurbished one from > >>Saitek (complete with warranty) for $75 US. The Saitek wheel is a > >>digital wheel that features the same electronics as the Microsoft > >>Sidewinder Force Feedback wheel -- for MUCH less money. > >I don't really see that as much of a bargain on a re-furb. > >I paid $30 more for a brand new Formula Force. > >Not trying to be argumentative, I thought the same thing when I saw > >the original Saitek post. > >Tim

>As a refurbished item, it's already experienced a breakdown of soe >sort that's been repaired by the factory, so you won't have to worry >about infant mortality failures or a device that doesn't work right >out of the box Indeed; it might just be like the one I sent back just because it su...., er, wasn't satisfactory. Horses for courses...... What? You can really get that now? Ain't science wonderful? :-) Bravo! I hereby nominate this as the official r.a.s. gizmo justification protocol, suitable for immediate use by all r.a.s. lurkers. Just don't forget the part about the shoes...... Cheers, Steve B. remove "edy" from address for email

Dear fellow tightwad <G>, The Saitek pedals attach to the main unit using -- of all things -- a telephone-style connector. It should be possible to make a CH pedals-to-phone-style adapter cable, but I haven't taken the time to figure out the pinout for the Saitek pedals. It *should* be do-able, but I can't make any guarantees based on my own experience. -- JB On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:41:01 -0500, "Ralf & Gwendolyn"

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>Can the saited ff wheel be used with ch pedals? A fellow tightwad wishes to >know ;-) >Dolle Dolf >> $30 makes a big difference to tightwad bargain-seekers like myself! >> <G> >> Seriously, though, a Force Feedback wheel as nice as the Saitek for >> the same price as your average non-FF wheel is truly a bargain. >> Granted, a LWFF wheel for only $30 more is also a bargain, but the >> Saitek wheel has a couple of features the LWFF wheel doesn't: >> 1) It uses a standard MIDI-compatible joystick port, found on most >> sound cards, so you don't need to worry about having a spare COM port; >> 2) It has both paddle shifters and a stick shift, so you can choose >> which to use; >> 3) It has a nifty height-adjustment feature for the wheel (think "tilt >> wheel" on a smaller scale); >> 4) The Saitek pedals may not be the greatest thing since sliced >> butter, but they are of a bit more conventional design than the LWFF >> pedals -- not necessarily better, mind you, but Thrustmaster owners >> should have no problem adapting to the Saitek pedals; >> 5) Your wife won't be quite as mad when you tell her that, "It has a >> suggested retail price of $199, and CompUSA sells it for $175, but I >> picked it up for $75, so I actually saved us money. Why don't you go >> buy yourself a new pair of shoes or something on me!"; and >> 6) As a refurbished item, it's already experienced a breakdown of soe >> sort that's been repaired by the factory, so you won't have to worry >> about infant mortality failures or a device that doesn't work right >> out of the box because someone forgot something simple like a broken >> spring on the pedal or the fact that someone might have overlooked the >> need to solder a wire in place properly or such. Most manufacturers >> scrutinize refurbed items more closely than they do the new items >> rolling off the assembly line -- so they may be more trouble-free, in >> addition to being less expensive. >> Also, FWIW, a co-worker of mine bought one of these refurbished wheels >> from Saitek, and you can't tell the difference between it and the new >> one we have in the office, so the refurbished angle shouldn't be a >> deterrent in and of itself. >> The bottom line is that the true tightwad bargain-seekers or those on >> a tight budget will probably be delighted with a refurbished Saitek >> wheel -- and the $30 price difference betwen the LWFF and the Saitek >> wheel means that for $105 you could have either a LWFF wheel or a >> Saitek R4 Force wheel AND the full retail version of Viper Racing plus >> $5 change. That makes my checkbook smile. ;-) >> -- John Bodin >> Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine >> http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/ >> >>The Saitek R4 Force wheel is highly underrated, and it's a real >> >>bargain right now -- you can reportedly get a refurbished one from >> >>Saitek (complete with warranty) for $75 US. The Saitek wheel is a >> >>digital wheel that features the same electronics as the Microsoft >> >>Sidewinder Force Feedback wheel -- for MUCH less money. >> >I don't really see that as much of a bargain on a re-furb. >> >I paid $30 more for a brand new Formula Force. >> >Not trying to be argumentative, I thought the same thing when I saw >> >the original Saitek post. >> >Tim

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>>As a refurbished item, it's already experienced a breakdown of soe >>sort that's been repaired by the factory, so you won't have to worry >>about infant mortality failures or a device that doesn't work right >>out of the box >Indeed; it might just be like the one I sent back just because it su...., er, >wasn't satisfactory. Horses for courses...... >>The Saitek pedals may not be the greatest thing since sliced >>butter >What? You can really get that now? Ain't science wonderful? :-)

Yes. And here's a little known fact: Sliced butter is given out for free at every IRL race. Talk about an incentive to attend! <VWG> This has been the standard John Bodin gizmo justification protocol for quite some time now. As far as gizmos go, the Aura Interactor caused the most furrowing of the brow upon receipt on the part of my spouse, but the price justification bit saved my bacon yet again -- furrowed brow quickly transformed into rolled eyeballs, and my fat was out of the fire once again! <G> You just can't beat THAT!

Cheers! I think it was you that recommended the el cheapo compusa wheel a little while ago wasn't it? Anyway, I got the wheel, and it sure is a big improvement over the ms3d pro joystick that I was using previously. Would you happen to know if the ch pedals are compatible with the el cheapo compusa wheel? After all, what the real tightwad wants is a cheap wheel, and cheap pedals, that can again be used with a cheap stick.... ;-) I will check out that Saitek force feedback next time I get to the store though. When/if the GPL ff patch comes out I may want to switch. BTW Computergeeks.com have a refurbished logitec ff wheel for around $100 i think. Do you think it is worth the extra $25? Your opinions are appreciated. Dolle Dolf

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> The Saitek pedals attach to the main unit using -- of all things -- a > telephone-style connector. It should be possible to make a CH > pedals-to-phone-style adapter cable, but I haven't taken the time to > figure out the pinout for the Saitek pedals. It *should* be do-able, > but I can't make any guarantees based on my own experience. > -- JB > On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:41:01 -0500, "Dolle Dolf"

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