GPL: I suggest a more realistic hotlap competition

Apparently there are tools that can check ride height. I guess it could easily check if a ride height was too low on a hotlap. So I suggest a hotlap competition where the minimum ride height is 4.0 inches for front and 4.5 for rear. Someone in an earlier post here claimed the cars of the era ran rear at around 4.5 inches and front around 4.0 inches, so I suggest minimum 4.0 inches in front and minimum 4.5 at the rear. /Christer, got a bit inspired and will from now on always drive realistic ride heights :o)

To add to this, when you hit rumble strips or run off the track, your bump stops dont hit and it accepts the jolt better and thus you can hold on to the car and it makes the car much easier to handle. >I've been running these heights for a few weeks on the Brabham and the Lotus >(at Monza and Spa). I'm not as quick as the best but then I wasn't with low >heights either. What I notice is that I can pull it all back together when >needed with a lurid oversteering slide where perviously I would be backwards

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>thru the hedges. I am hoping that these setups willl come to the fore in >longer races. Now, if I could just stay connected for longer races! >Ben >> Apparently there are tools that can check ride height. I guess it >> could easily check if a ride height was too low on a hotlap. So I >> suggest a hotlap competition where the minimum ride height is 4.0 >> inches for front and 4.5 for rear. Someone in an earlier post here >> claimed the cars of the era ran rear at around 4.5 inches and front >> around 4.0 inches, so I suggest minimum 4.0 inches in front and >> minimum 4.5 at the rear. >> /Christer, got a bit inspired and will from now on always drive >> realistic ride heights :o)

I've been running these heights for a few weeks on the Brabham and the Lotus (at Monza and Spa). I'm not as quick as the best but then I wasn't with low heights either. What I notice is that I can pull it all back together when needed with a lurid oversteering slide where perviously I would be backwards thru the hedges. I am hoping that these setups willl come to the fore in longer races. Now, if I could just stay connected for longer races! Ben

Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will still hold the 10 fastest laps

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>Apparently there are tools that can check ride height. I guess it >could easily check if a ride height was too low on a hotlap. So I >suggest a hotlap competition where the minimum ride height is 4.0 >inches for front and 4.5 for rear. Someone in an earlier post here >claimed the cars of the era ran rear at around 4.5 inches and front >around 4.0 inches, so I suggest minimum 4.0 inches in front and >minimum 4.5 at the rear. >/Christer, got a bit inspired and will from now on always drive >realistic ride heights :o)

> Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will > still hold the 10 fastest laps I'm sure you're right, but if they did them with more realistic setups, it would be easier to try to emulate the hotlap by watching the replay and using their setup, I believe. At least, I hope so - I tried Wolfgang Woeger's Brands Hatch setup (1:32.97 in the Lotus) and it was an absolute *nightmare*! It took me 10 laps before I went round without crashing, and even then I was 2 seconds over my best time (1:36.87) (which I can get near pretty consistently in the more "realistic" Ricardo Nunnini setup). Maybe it's just WW's preferences, but I suspect that the extreme oversteer had something to do with the low ride height (perhaps it runs on the bump stops?).

I know that Todd, but the ones who scream about unrealistic setups will be shut :o). It will also make this hotlap competition more realistic and I bet most hotlappers are in favour of this. /Christer

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> Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will >still hold the 10 fastest laps >>Apparently there are tools that can check ride height. I guess it >>could easily check if a ride height was too low on a hotlap. So I >>suggest a hotlap competition where the minimum ride height is 4.0 >>inches for front and 4.5 for rear. Someone in an earlier post here >>claimed the cars of the era ran rear at around 4.5 inches and front >>around 4.0 inches, so I suggest minimum 4.0 inches in front and >>minimum 4.5 at the rear. >>/Christer, got a bit inspired and will from now on always drive >>realistic ride heights :o)

Are you using a wheel? That could be the problem - Wolfie uses a joystick, so he probably has an easier time catching the oversteer than a wheel-user. Rick

>> Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will >> still hold the 10 fastest laps snip >Maybe it's just WW's preferences, but I suspect that the extreme >oversteer had something to do with the low ride height (perhaps it runs >on the bump stops?). the Ring and the setup he used uses ride heights of 3.75 and 4.25 front and rear respectively. I think this guy is just plain blazing quick. I tried his setup and have adopted it as the basic(start point) setup for every track. Of particular interest to me was his use of extreme negative toe-in for the front. This really helped me with controllability. I'm not even in the same league time wise though. He smokes.

A note on the extreme toe ins, you can set your toe ins to -5 on front and 5 in back and see VERY little speed difference. Imaging having a 5in. toe out in the front. It would be huge and wouldnt drive well. It is a big bug in GPL which I first saw Sasa abuse. His record time at watkins glen was the first time I saw that sort of toe in. At watkins glen I just put toe in in front to -5 and back to 5 and I dropped 2 seconds. 1:06s to 1:04s. Jesse

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>>> Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will >>> still hold the 10 fastest laps >snip >>Maybe it's just WW's preferences, but I suspect that the extreme >>oversteer had something to do with the low ride height (perhaps it runs >>on the bump stops?). >the Ring and the setup he used uses ride heights of 3.75 and 4.25 front and >rear respectively. I think this guy is just plain blazing quick. I tried

his >setup and have adopted it as the basic(start point) setup for every track. >Of particular interest to me was his use of extreme negative toe-in for the >front. This really helped me with controllability. I'm not even in the same >league time wise though. He smokes.

On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:44:28 -0400, "Jesse Black" >A note on the extreme toe ins, you can set your toe ins to -5 on front and 5 >in back and see VERY little speed difference. Imaging having a 5in. toe out >in the front. It would be huge and wouldnt drive well. It is a big bug in >GPL which I first saw Sasa abuse. His record time at watkins glen was the >first time I saw that sort of toe in. At watkins glen I just put toe in in >front to -5 and back to 5 and I dropped 2 seconds. 1:06s to 1:04s. Hmmm, you must be using a hacked version of gpl, cause my toe-in and out values have a maximum distance of plus or minus _0.5_ not 5 :) Ian

> Are you using a wheel? That could be the problem - Wolfie uses a joystick, > so he probably has an easier time catching the oversteer than a wheel-user. Yes, I am using a wheel. Mind you, when I watch his replays he's super-smooth anyway, so doesn't need to catch much! More practice required...

Can you explain to me what the equivalent to a hotlapper in RealLife racing is? ;-) ---Asgeir---

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> I know that Todd, but the ones who scream about unrealistic setups will be > shut :o). It will also make this hotlap competition more realistic and I bet > most hotlappers are in favour of this. > /Christer > > Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will > >still hold the 10 fastest laps > >>Apparently there are tools that can check ride height. I guess it > >>could easily check if a ride height was too low on a hotlap. So I > >>suggest a hotlap competition where the minimum ride height is 4.0 > >>inches for front and 4.5 for rear. Someone in an earlier post here > >>claimed the cars of the era ran rear at around 4.5 inches and front > >>around 4.0 inches, so I suggest minimum 4.0 inches in front and > >>minimum 4.5 at the rear. > >>/Christer, got a bit inspired and will from now on always drive > >>realistic ride heights :o)

It's the one that take the pole and the ones who try to take the pole... and hotllapping is done during qualifying... You're also hotlapping when you're trying to catch a driver in front of you and you're a couple of seconds down and think you can catch him before the finish... Really I though you knew all this ;o). /Christer >Can you explain to me what the equivalent to a hotlapper in RealLife racing is?

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>;-) >---Asgeir--- >> I know that Todd, but the ones who scream about unrealistic setups will

be >> shut :o). It will also make this hotlap competition more realistic and I bet

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>> most hotlappers are in favour of this. >> /Christer >> > Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will >> >still hold the 10 fastest laps

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> It's the one that take the pole and the ones who try to take the pole... and > hotllapping is done during qualifying... You're also hotlapping when you're > trying to catch a driver in front of you and you're a couple of seconds down > and think you can catch him before the finish... Really I though you knew > all this ;o). > /Christer

Hmm can't ever remember going so hard into a turn that i crashed and killed myself to find the limit in real racing:) Matt

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> >Can you explain to me what the equivalent to a hotlapper in RealLife racing > is? > >;-) > >---Asgeir--- > >> I know that Todd, but the ones who scream about unrealistic setups will > be > >> shut :o). It will also make this hotlap competition more realistic and I > bet > >> most hotlappers are in favour of this. > >> /Christer > >> > Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people will > >> >still hold the 10 fastest laps > >> >>Apparently there are tools that can check ride height. I guess it > >> >>could easily check if a ride height was too low on a hotlap. So I > >> >>suggest a hotlap competition where the minimum ride height is 4.0 > >> >>inches for front and 4.5 for rear. Someone in an earlier post here > >> >>claimed the cars of the era ran rear at around 4.5 inches and front > >> >>around 4.0 inches, so I suggest minimum 4.0 inches in front and > >> >>minimum 4.5 at the rear. > >> >>/Christer, got a bit inspired and will from now on always drive > >> >>realistic ride heights :o)

-- Matthew Birger Knutsen Cheek Racing Cars http://www.cheekracing.electra.no

On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:50:13 GMT, "Christer Andersson"

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>>Can you explain to me what the equivalent to a hotlapper in RealLife racing >>is? >It's the one that take the pole and the ones who try to take the pole... and >hotllapping is done during qualifying... You're also hotlapping when you're >trying to catch a driver in front of you and you're a couple of seconds down >and think you can catch him before the finish... Really I though you knew >all this ;o).

THAT is not hotlapping. There is no "real life" equivalent to hotlapping, it is a false comparison. Cheers! John

Obviously. Jan. ------ ><Snilp> >Hmm can't ever remember going so hard into a turn that i crashed and killed >myself to find the limit in real racing:) >Matt

This appears to be the Bottom Line for each sim driver!! "Individual Preferences".. No More.. No Less.. Cheers Thom_j.

>>THAT is not hotlapping. There is no "real life" equivalent to >>hotlapping, it is a false comparison. >I've heard the term used in "real life" racing before. It just means >being on the track by yourself, going as fast as you can. That falls a long way short of making it equivalent. Cheers! John

Isn't hotlapping the thing you do everytime you're on a track, except when you lead by over 5 seconds :o)? /Christer >> It's the one that take the pole and the ones who try to take the pole... and >> hotllapping is done during qualifying... You're also hotlapping when you're >> trying to catch a driver in front of you and you're a couple of seconds down

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>> and think you can catch him before the finish... Really I though you knew >> all this ;o). >> /Christer >Hmm can't ever remember going so hard into a turn that i crashed and killed >myself to find the limit in real racing:) >Matt >> >Can you explain to me what the equivalent to a hotlapper in RealLife

racing

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>> is? >> >;-) >> >---Asgeir--- >> >> I know that Todd, but the ones who scream about unrealistic setups

will >> be >> >> shut :o). It will also make this hotlap competition more realistic and I

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>> bet >> >> most hotlappers are in favour of this. >> >> /Christer >> >> > Doesn't matter what setup restrictions are set the same 10 people

will

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>> >> >still hold the 10 fastest laps >> >> >>Apparently there are tools that can check ride height. I guess it >> >> >>could easily check if a ride height was too low on a hotlap. So I >> >> >>suggest a hotlap competition where the minimum ride height is 4.0 >> >> >>inches for front and 4.5 for rear. Someone in an earlier post here >> >> >>claimed the cars of the era ran rear at around 4.5 inches and front >> >> >>around 4.0 inches, so I suggest minimum 4.0 inches in front and >> >> >>minimum 4.5 at the rear. >> >> >>/Christer, got a bit inspired and will from now on always drive >> >> >>realistic ride heights :o) >-- >Matthew Birger Knutsen >Cheek Racing Cars >http://www.cheekracing.electra.no

I thought hotlapping in sim racing was about going as fast as possible on one lap, and I thought qualifying in real racing was about going as fast as possible on one lap? Or do we have to expand the definition before we see that there are actually differencies :o). /Christer "I know single out differencies is about survival, but I thought everybody knew this was the reason we focus on them and miss that the similarities are much more frequent" /Christer, mid 1999 :o)

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> On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:50:13 GMT, "Christer Andersson" > >>Can you explain to me what the equivalent to a hotlapper in RealLife racing > >>is? > >It's the one that take the pole and the ones who try to take the pole... and > >hotllapping is done during qualifying... You're also hotlapping when you're > >trying to catch a driver in front of you and you're a couple of seconds down > >and think you can catch him before the finish... Really I though you knew > >all this ;o). > THAT is not hotlapping. There is no "real life" equivalent to > hotlapping, it is a false comparison. > Cheers! > John

-- http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

On Fri, 02 Jul 1999 22:13:46 +0200, Christer Andersson >I thought hotlapping in sim racing was about going as fast as possible >on one lap, and I thought qualifying in real racing was about going as >fast as possible on one lap? Or do we have to expand the definition >before we see that there are actually differencies :o). Ballooning involves going up in the air - is it then the same as flying Concorde or jumping on a ***oline? We don't need to expand the definition, we just need an appropriate one. Hotlapping involves the ultimate single fastest lap which you can do, taking the car to your absolute limit. In sim-racing that limit is defined by trial and error - you KNOW where it is. You may then run however many laps necessary until you can take that chicane in fifth gear, clatter over the kerbs and not bounce into the wall. In real life qualifying you need to do the fastest lap you can given the limited number of runs you've had, given that you need that car in one piece to race the next day, given that you need yourself in one piece to go home the next day. Hotlapping is a blend of patience and skill - qualifying blends caution, courage and skill. The components of caution and courage do not exist in sim-racing, although they play a huge part in real life. Cheers! John

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> There are a lot of guys who will at a new track find the edge by over > cooking corners a bit. Its a fast way to find limits, but it can be > expensive if you are not very very good. I remember watching a Formula > Ford Hotshoe at Lake Afton one year doing that to find out how far he could > push it in every corner. The SCCA had a pro race that year paying 25 grand > to the winner, so a lot of guys came that had never seen that little track > before. It was fun to watch therse guys reel the cars back in after really > overcooking some of the corners. At turn 10 I really thought a few of > where gonna end up in the spillway, a few times. I prefer slowly exploring > the limits, but then again I am not that fast.

In an interview some months ago, Ralph Schuhmacher explained that he is able to learn the F1-tracks much faster, as he is discussion with his more experienced brother - especially breaking points. He stated that this saves time he can use to set-up the car, as he doesn't have to use that much laps breaking a bit later every time to get a feel for the limit. TAL -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A-8223 Stubenberg, Vockenberg 108; Styria - Austria - Europe ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I have forgotten why we started this argument in the first place :o). /Christer

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> Ballooning involves going up in the air - is it then the same as > flying Concorde or jumping on a ***oline? We don't need to expand > the definition, we just need an appropriate one. > Hotlapping involves the ultimate single fastest lap which you can do, > taking the car to your absolute limit. In sim-racing that limit is > defined by trial and error - you KNOW where it is. You may then run > however many laps necessary until you can take that chicane in fifth > gear, clatter over the kerbs and not bounce into the wall. > In real life qualifying you need to do the fastest lap you can given > the limited number of runs you've had, given that you need that car in > one piece to race the next day, given that you need yourself in one > piece to go home the next day. > Hotlapping is a blend of patience and skill - qualifying blends > caution, courage and skill. The components of caution and courage do > not exist in sim-racing, although they play a huge part in real life. > Cheers! > John

-- http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

writes: >the Ring and the setup he used uses ride heights of 3.75 and 4.25 front and >rear respectively. I think this guy is just plain blazing quick. I tried his >setup and have adopted it as the basic(start point) setup for every track. >Of particular interest to me was his use of extreme negative toe-in for the >front. This really helped me with controllability. I'm not even in the same >league time wise though. He smokes. A sub - 8:00?!? Oh MAN, I'll *never* get there. I'm still in the 11's... :) __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Some of us change their preferences after some discussions, isn't that a good thing??? /Christer

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> This appears to be the Bottom Line for each sim driver!! > "Individual Preferences".. No More.. No Less.. > Cheers Thom_j. > > Maybe it's just WW's preferences,

-- http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).