All those things about Nascar3

I have read a couple of times peoples remarks on Nascar 3. "I'm not gonna buy it if it's based on the Nascar 2/1999 engine. It would have been so much better based on the GPL engine..." On the other side of the story, Papyrus told us that the N2 game engine would be highly modified. What if it was so modified as to present a totally new game? One example comes to mind: Quake II and Half-Life. I was no big fan of Quake or FPS, but once I received Half-Life has a gift, I was hooked. How could a game based on an old (relatively speaking) be so good? Because Valve (the makers og HL), took the existing Quake II code, changed it, added new features (like other colors beside brown and shades of brown and even more brown) and better gameplay (namely in game puzzles). What if Papyrus does the same with the N2 engine. Well, I'm willing to try it out. Philster

Cool, we can have tetris on the dashboard! <tic> Ben

That's not a good comparison. The "Quake 2 engine" used by Half-Life is a graphics engine, not a physics engine. Nascar 3 is going to have all new graphics and sounds, but the physics are still going to be the same old 2 dimensional ***which we all thought was great a few years ago when Nascar Racing came out. All of that changed when GPL was released. It's going to be real hard for some of us to spend money to go backwards. I said the same thing though about GPL, I didn't want to go backwards in time to 1967. The only reason I bought it was to get a good look at the Nascar 3 engine. I just wish we could get Papy to make one sim with the GPL engine but modern cars, preferably Nascar but F1 or CART would do fine. Philster wrote

% That's not a good comparison. The "Quake 2 engine" used by Half-Life is % a graphics engine, not a physics engine. Nascar 3 is going to have all new % graphics and sounds, but the physics are still going to be the same old 2 % dimensional ***which we all thought was great a few years ago when Nascar % Racing came out. All of that changed when GPL was released. It's going to be % real hard for some of us to spend money to go backwards. <snip> We do not know for a fact that NASCAR3 will use the "exact" same physics engine as the N2 series. From what has been said, it would appear that the physics engine is getting a complete overhaul as well. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The time difference from the release of Quake 2 to Halflife is alot different than the time span between N2 and Nascar 3, as well as the fact that if Valve( creaters of Halflife) would have had a better game engine in an already released game that was better than Quake 2, I think they would have went to the newer engine. Papy has a better engine in GPL yet we are going to get yet again a modified N2 game. I just hope they pull some Papy magic with it cuz I haven't bought a Nascar game since 2. Norm

Well, if it is based on the N2 engine at least I'll have a prayer of being able to run it and stay in my offline league <G.. Tried GPL on a P200 with 64 meg of ram and a 16 meg Monster and I get chop and stutter on the front straights with any other cars besides mine at all tracks. You don't even want to know what it does with a 5 car field in the turns <G.. Ron

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>I have read a couple of times peoples remarks on Nascar 3. "I'm not >gonna buy it if it's based on the Nascar 2/1999 engine. It would have >been so much better based on the GPL engine..." >On the other side of the story, Papyrus told us that the N2 game engine >would be highly modified. What if it was so modified as to present a >totally new game? One example comes to mind: Quake II and Half-Life. I >was no big fan of Quake or FPS, but once I received Half-Life has a >gift, I was hooked. How could a game based on an old (relatively >speaking) be so good? Because Valve (the makers og HL), took the >existing Quake II code, changed it, added new features (like other >colors beside brown and shades of brown and even more brown) and better >gameplay (namely in game puzzles). What if Papyrus does the same with >the N2 engine. Well, I'm willing to try it out. >Philster

-- Ron Riekens II ICQ# 1780898 Co-Owner/Driver: Pacific Rim Racing/Wendys Restaurants NWST'99 CTS #97 Chevy C10 NWST'99 for N99: http://www.nwstracing.com/nascar99/ NASS'98 N1, BGN Champion Pacific Rim Racing NASS'98 N1, BGN Team Champions NASS'98 N1 Rookie & Team Points Statistician NASS'99 http://www.nasscar.com/ Pacific Rim Racing located at: Oregon Division Site: http://www.pacifier.com/~ronrii/prr/index.html Hawaii Division Site: http://www.frelance.com/prr/index.html Members of the Team Sites webring since 3-99 http://mars.spaceports.com/~nasunite/GDR/Teamsitering.html

Oops! Forgot to turn of that oversize sig of mine again on previous post :( Sorry if offends anyone <G.. Ron

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>I have read a couple of times peoples remarks on Nascar 3. "I'm not >gonna buy it if it's based on the Nascar 2/1999 engine. It would have >been so much better based on the GPL engine..." >On the other side of the story, Papyrus told us that the N2 game engine >would be highly modified. What if it was so modified as to present a >totally new game? One example comes to mind: Quake II and Half-Life. I >was no big fan of Quake or FPS, but once I received Half-Life has a >gift, I was hooked. How could a game based on an old (relatively >speaking) be so good? Because Valve (the makers og HL), took the >existing Quake II code, changed it, added new features (like other >colors beside brown and shades of brown and even more brown) and better >gameplay (namely in game puzzles). What if Papyrus does the same with >the N2 engine. Well, I'm willing to try it out. >Philster

Thats a fare point Philster and I agree that Papy have said they will be doing lots of modifications to make N2000/3 better than N2 but, they have not mentioned anything about improving the physics engine specifically. After reloading the Viper demo I would be happy if that physics engine was used in N2000. In that game (Viper) the car feels as though it has weight and drives accordingly. But the proof will be in the tasting of the pudding I guess. -- Redline Race Controls http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/9045/ Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Hamilton New Zealand

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> That's not a good comparison. The "Quake 2 engine" used by Half-Life is > a graphics engine, not a physics engine. Nascar 3 is going to have all new > graphics and sounds, but the physics are still going to be the same old 2 > dimensional ***which we all thought was great a few years ago when Nascar > Racing came out. All of that changed when GPL was released. It's going to be > real hard for some of us to spend money to go backwards. > I said the same thing though about GPL, I didn't want to go backwards in > time to 1967. The only reason I bought it was to get a good look at the > Nascar 3 engine. I just wish we could get Papy to make one sim with the GPL > engine but modern cars, preferably Nascar but F1 or CART would do fine. > Philster wrote > >What if it was so modified as to present a > >totally new game? One example comes to mind: Quake II and Half-Life.

I think you did not get my point: the changes made in Nascar 3 will not be of the same nature as the changes made to the Quake II engine for Half-Life. I was just pointing the fact that it's possible to make an entirely new game from an existing and somewhat old game engine. Philster

Philster wrote I got the point, but no amount of translucent smoke is going to hide the fact that we are still driving the same less than realistic cars. They can add a couple of setup options but it will still be the same game. It will be better, just as N2 was better than N1, but at it's core it will be the same game. The free internet play will definitely make it a big seller though, which is why Sierra made the smart business decision to do it this way. They will get our money twice, once for this "patch" to N99 and again when they FINALLY release N4 with the GPL engine. The added bonus is that Papy gets to use all these goodies they are working on for N3 (force-feedback, improved internet play, etc.) for their love-child, GPL. Nascar is their cash-cow, open wheel is where their hearts are.

I read somwhere that it's more difficult to enter turns in Nascar3, like more difficult to keep it in the limit. Like if you enter the corner too fast, you can't correct it by "just easing the throttle". also that Daytona track will not be with it(something to do with not having llicense)

On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:50:56 -0500, "Tracey A Miller"

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>Philster wrote >>I think you did not get my point: > I got the point, but no amount of translucent smoke is going to hide the >fact that we are still driving the same less than realistic cars. They can >add a couple of setup options but it will still be the same game. It will be >better, just as N2 was better than N1, but at it's core it will be the same >game. The free internet play will definitely make it a big seller though, >which is why Sierra made the smart business decision to do it this way. They >will get our money twice, once for this "patch" to N99 and again when they >FINALLY release N4 with the GPL engine. The added bonus is that Papy gets to >use all these goodies they are working on for N3 (force-feedback, improved >internet play, etc.) for their love-child, GPL. Nascar is their cash-cow, >open wheel is where their hearts are.

It'll be interesting to see just how much of my cash they end up with: NR99 didn't cost me a DIME (eventually)! Besides - free internet play, smoke, new setup options (which will alter how the car performs and handles) will make it so that I don't CARE what the CORE is: I care about what makes it PLAY different. Besides - you can go to the movies and dinner on a Friday night and spend more than what it'll cost ya (let's not get into details about "fringe benefits..."). I plan on being first in line. Gunner CFM Van Halen #55 ACOR Busch Series.

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:15:30 +0300, "Marko Viitanen" >I read somwhere that it's more difficult to enter turns in Nascar3, like >more difficult to keep it in the limit. Like if you enter the corner too >fast, you can't correct it by "just easing the throttle". >also that Daytona track will not be with it(something to do with not having >llicense) Having just made a post about being the first in line to buy it when it comes out; you've just reminded me of a reservation I had about it a while back: what will we LOSE? In THEORY we should be able to continue to use our cars and tracks.... but just HOW heavily will this engine be modified?.... Gunner CFM Van Halen #55 ACOR Busch Series

I wouldn't count on being able to use your cars OR tracks in the next version. The cars are probably going to use more polygons and have more paintable surfaces (can you say "decklid"?), so don't count on being able to use your old ones. As far as tracks are concerned, I wouldn't count on that either. The only real damn shame is that Papy hasn't ever seen fit to include tracks that are no longer included on the cup/busch/truck schedules, or tracks that have their new *AND* old configurations. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Don Hancock wrote Thank you for helping to make my point. The reason Sierra decided to release another game with the N2 engine is that people will buy it. Period. All this ***about "GPL engine can't run 43 cars on current CPUs" is a smokescreen, much like those screen shots on their web page. They could re-release N99 with internet play and people would buy it. Instead they are adding some graphic capability, 3d sound, and force feedback. Then afterwards they will be able to re-release the Craftsman Truck add-on with the supped-up smoke also. One rule in business: don't give customers more than they ask for, you can sell the rest to them later.