A bit OT, Will Bernie Kill F1?

Here in the UK, and according to www.autosport.com other European countries too, F1 qualifying is no longer available unless you subscribe to Bernie's digital TV network (not yet available in UK, I might add) and pay circa 10 per race (based on French prices). The quality of coverage in the races has also been compromised by big BE in order to encourage people to shell out. With so many motorsports offering a better show, what's gonna happen? Are the sponsors who spend absolute fortunes at getting their brand names on the sides of these machines going to be happy about the drastic audience reduction? I don't think so. I think BE has gone mad with his power. My hope is that F1 in it's current guise dies (it's a soap opera, not a sport anymore). With -real- ovals being built in the UK and Germany, maybe CART could become the premier motorsport division - sure it's not the technical tour-de-force, but who gives a mokey's about that? And those that claim full course yellows make it a non sport - did you see Canada? At least the cars are still just that, cars. F1 gets more like wipeout each year - less contact with the road, more reliance on aero... Mark, pissed off 'cause he couldn't watch Barrichello get pole, Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I agree. F1 is becoming a joke, When will BE realise that F1 won't survive on one TV station broadcasting to France, Germany and Italy only. It pisses me off that I couldnt watch the most 'Incidental' qualifying session this season. It was probably a big fix to get subscribers : Bernie forces many fans to miss out on exciting qualifying session in wet, people panic, afraid they'll miss something else and subscirbe to Bernie TV! I switched my TV on today expecting to see F1 cars, but I saw some woman called Sunny Davies or something being forced to marry someone from the Middle East - Or somethinhg! Wasn't paying attention, was glued to the Autosport site. Pathetic. F1 should be run by the fans, not some money hungry idiot.

I read rec.auto.sports.f1 occasionally, but don't post there. Nice of you to drag this off-topic thread to somewhere I do post to! Eek - has ITV dropped (or been told to drop) the live qualifying? I've been living in Japan for the last year, and they've only shown the Suzuka GP quals here, surprisingly enough (but I was there in person). That's a total and utter *** if that's true. Yup, it does really suck - I thought to begin with it was just me not understanding the commentary, but we hardly ever see a decent in-car shot and some of the direction really sucks - car threatening to overtake? Lets switch to Schu/Hakk pulling away instead! I thought most commercial organisations would give you a taster of what you could get, rather than the F1 option of rubbing our noses in it. Touring Cars is excellent, and has the "that's my car" appeal for the masses. Bikes are great too, but the World Championships on satellite and I don't think UK Superbikes are well promoted on the BBC. Allegedly, it's still going up. However, this year there seems to have been quite a European backlash against it. Will Malaysia (I'm going to try to get a ticket for there) and US revive its fortunes? I don't know about that. Simming on ovals is a real challenge, but watching them is rather unsatisfying. About the only driver I can cheer for is Franchitti (sp!), all the rest are either just names I've vaguely heard at best. There's going to have to be a huge marketing push to get the average punter involved, or they have to offer Hill a huge wad... Full-course yellows create artificial situations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Coulthard's and Irvine's maneouvres didn't come about directly after the yellow, they'd have caught up eventually. Coulthard got behind Irvine thanks to pitting under yellow anyway, and got a 10 second penalty for it. Really?? Ace! Unbelievable! I'm back on-line to check out the positions. I used to be a Coulthard fan, but he's been a big number two for the last couple of seasons, so now Jackie represents my Scottishness! Ken

Keith, Today was only just better than watching Michael Barrymore and a chimp instead of qualifying for the Canadian GP two weeks ago!!! Personally, I'm hoping Sky bid for F1 rights. If they do the same coverage for F1 as they do for golf, superbikes, or even IRL, at least we will get to see every session live and get all kinds of discussion/review shows etc, and maybe even some in-car footage. Marc Cooper

We think along similar lines. I posted this elsewhere earlier on..... Bernie has squeezed the necks of the tv companies even further. Today, I sat down to watch qualifying for the French GP. By all accounts, it was a momentous session with Barrichello getting the first ever pole for Stewart. Needless to say, We were unable to see this marvel. Why? Because Bernie has decided on a whim that TV companies no longer have the right to televise qualifying. I bet the teams sponsors were highly impressed with this sudden down turn in exposure. You now need to subscribe to his 15 million a year cable roadshow in order to see it. Needless to say, there are only officially 3 countries where this is possible at present. This comes as a final straw to me. The bastard has already made sure that in car shots are almost exclusively his, along with many cameras that are no longer fed to the network stations. Mr Ecclestone was in hospital this week undergoing heart surgery. I think that they have removed it and replaced it with a bigger stone! We now have a circus run by an idiot who makes rules by way of misguided opinion and ignores the wishes of countless millions of people all over the world. We now have a single person holding the main media outlet to the world, to ransom. This of course doesn't even touch on his other monopolies. Eccleshite has his pockets lined from almost every aspect of the sport from tv rights down to who gets the contract to supply mobile shithouses at Silverstone!!!!! Net result. We pay exorbitant prices for the cheapest tickets and have to queue from dawn to dusk to stake a half decent claim on a piece of banking. We sit and watch boring cars skitter around an emasculated track in the knowledge that unless we have a Corporate box in front of the pits, we have more chance of seeing the Loch Ness monster than a passing manoeuvre on track. In our armchairs we now wonder how long it will be before Channel Ecclestone finally pulls the plug on terrestrial tv and calls the shots as to how much he will charge to bore us silly on a Sunday afternoon. Why the hell do we put up with this? My feeling is that we all hope that F1 will one day climb from the ashes and rise like a Phoenix. Maybe we are clinging to it from a sense of loyalty, trying to relive past glories. I'm sorry to say that from this day onwards, I am officially declaring myself as an Ex F1 fan. These bastards will never get another penny of mine to further line their corrupt pockets.I have a feeling that one or two other people are starting to think along the same lines. Shit happens, milk turns sour and F1 gets run by Bernie and Max. Sorry facts of life..... Mark

Well presonally I have always thoguht Bernie looked after one guy himself. He won't kill F1 he will just hurt it a bunch. Sponsors are going to love it when their customers have to pay to their cars parade around a racing circuit. Dave

I agree with you... But anyway the show on the track is getting more boring each race. Lets return to : - No more refueling during race. - No more wings on the cars. - No more tyre changing during race. - Back to "Iron" brake disks. Most of the passing actions are now happening in the pits. My suggestions could cure this. I would like to add too : - Wet races everywhere, so Alesi can get the ront row during qualifying, like today at Magny-Cours :-) Thierry Cailleteau.

Do I really want to get into this 'sport' anymore? What chance have I racing the states? Rob Swindells 4th in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (12 Points); 8 points behined Championship Leader (as of round 3 of 6)

I think it's funny how Max Mosley keeps going on about how ~70% of the TV audience for F1 is the casual Sunday viewer, and not the real F1 fans. If so, why does he agree to let Bernie keep all the best stuff for Digital TV? He stands to lose the biggest audience of F1 - those casual fans who aren't interested enough to pay for the coverage. -- Cheers! Graeme "Thank God for RTL" Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" (Calvin & Hobbes)

Rob Swindells a crit dans le message Afraid of wet conditions ? :-)) Thierry Cailleteau

Yeah, I read that in Autosport, too. Good point. Please excuse the following language: Those who run F1 - shitheads the lot of them. Just 'cause they've made their millions (billions?) doesn't mean they've done the sport a service - it just means they're fantastic manipulators. I mentioned in my original post about F1 being more of a soap now. Ever get hooked on a soap opera? If you can deliberately miss one or two episodes you're off it for good. That's what I'm gonna do with F1. I'll watch the CART and the BTCC tomorrow, and spend the time I would have vegitated in front of the idiot's lantern for the F1 with some quality time with my 6 week old daughter then have a bit of GPL. Sound much more fun... Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Haven't had a chance to try it yet! All my races have been dry. Sod's law. Rob Swindells 4th in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (12 Points); 8 points behined Championship Leader (as of round 3 of 6)

I hate to defend ITV here but I think you're missing the point. As I understand things it would have made no difference if it was Sky, ITV, BBC or whoever had the contract. It was Bernie's decision to cut the broadcast _not_ ITV's. ITV clearly believe they have a contract to show live qualifying as they have said so from day one. I half remember an interview with Max Mosely (at Silverstone last year ?) in which he said ITV were contractually obliged to show live qualifying at all events except one. Canada was a specific addition to the contract where live coverage was not required. Redshoes Racing - http://www.redshoes-racing.com/ Motorsports Archive - http://rmarchive.future.easyspace.com/

I live 30 miles from the site of the USGP and Tony George has done exactly zero to promote it. This is the mistake that others have made since the 70s -- they have a "if we run it, they will come" attitude in a market that's already coming near to being saturated, especially with NASCAR marketing their events like soda pop... It would be a pretty sad thing if the USGP had better ratings thousands of miles away than it does in it's own backyard.

Personally, as a US viewer who got Speedvision in order to watch the F1 "circus" live, I'm thankful it's only costing about $3.50 a month. One of the great "happy accidents" of the whole situation is that I now get to see a whole lot of motorcycle racing that I'd never seen before, and my eyes have been opened. I'm lukewarm on the various Superbike championships, but I flat-out LOVE the 125cc, 250cc, and (especially) the GP500 races. I caught the 250 and 500 races from Barcelona, and the 125 from Mugello, over the last week, and the racing was fantastic! There's passing all over the place (the 125s were *insane*), the venues are interesting (first time I'd seen Mugello), bikes naturally have a lot more room to maneuver, and the most important factor of all: no downforce, with cornering speed entirely dependent on mechanical grip. As a GPL enthusiast, I've really come to the conclusion that aerodynamic grip is the enemy of good racing, and there is NO danger of it making its presence felt in motorcycle racing. If you are a racing fan (I'm not a motorcycle enthusiast at all, and may never be), you owe it to yourself to check out what's happening in cycle racing these days - it really puts F1 to shame. Rick

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> I agree. > F1 is becoming a joke, When will BE realise that F1 won't survive on one TV > station broadcasting to France, Germany and Italy only. > It pisses me off that I couldnt watch the most 'Incidental' qualifying > session this season. It was probably a big fix to get subscribers : Bernie > forces many fans to miss out on exciting qualifying session in wet, people > panic, afraid they'll miss something else and subscirbe to Bernie TV! > I switched my TV on today expecting to see F1 cars, but I saw some woman > called Sunny Davies or something being forced to marry someone from the > Middle East - Or somethinhg! Wasn't paying attention, was glued to the > Autosport site. > Pathetic. F1 should be run by the fans, not some money hungry idiot. > > Here in the UK, and according to www.autosport.com other European > countries > > too, F1 qualifying is no longer available unless you subscribe to Bernie's > > digital TV network (not yet available in UK, I might add) and pay circa > 10 > > per race (based on French prices). The quality of coverage in the races > has > > also been compromised by big BE in order to encourage people to shell out. > > With so many motorsports offering a better show, what's gonna happen? Are > > the sponsors who spend absolute fortunes at getting their brand names on > the > > sides of these machines going to be happy about the drastic audience > > reduction? I don't think so. I think BE has gone mad with his power. My > hope > > is that F1 in it's current guise dies (it's a soap opera, not a sport > > anymore). With -real- ovals being built in the UK and Germany, maybe CART > > could become the premier motorsport division - sure it's not the technical > > tour-de-force, but who gives a mokey's about that? And those that claim > full > > course yellows make it a non sport - did you see Canada? At least the > cars > > are still just that, cars. F1 gets more like wipeout each year - less > > contact with the road, more reliance on aero... > > Mark, pissed off 'cause he couldn't watch Barrichello get pole, > > Reading, UK > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Hmmm... I'm in Canada and I was able to see the qualifications for the French Grand Prix at not extra charge on one of the regular cable channels. I'm not sure what you all mean... I did hear something about having to pay to see images from onboard cameras. That's something I really miss: images from onboard cameras. In CART and NASCAR, you see from that perspective quite a lot. Sure makes the show even more interesting. Philster

Nice to meet a kindred spirit, Mark. I've been preaching this for several years so it's satisfying to know that others feel the same way. F1 ceased to be a sport the minute it started to be manipulated to suit television programming and advertising requirements. We have seen the same thing happen here in Australia to the Touring Car Campionship, where it is the television network, driven by the major sponsor, who call the shots on how the series is structured, managed and scheduled. The TCC has become a woeful state of affairs compared to what it used to be like 15 years ago..... sort "heat" races and the whole thing stage managed to fit into a time slot between some crappy sitcom and the five PM Sunday evening news!! F1 has gone down a similar road and bears little resemblance to the sport it was twenty years ago.

Nicely stated, Mark. -- Regards, Bruce. ------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------- > We think along similar lines. I posted this elsewhere earlier on..... > Bernie has squeezed the necks of the tv companies even further. > Today, I sat down to watch qualifying for the French GP. By all accounts, it > was a momentous session with Barrichello getting the first ever pole for > Stewart. Needless to say, We were unable to see this marvel. Why? > Because Bernie has decided on a whim that TV companies no longer have the > right to televise qualifying. I bet the teams sponsors were highly impressed > with this sudden down turn in exposure. You now need to subscribe to his 15 > million a year cable roadshow in order to see it. Needless to say, there are > only officially 3 countries where this is possible at present. > This comes as a final straw to me. The bastard has already made sure that in > car shots are almost exclusively his, along with many cameras that are no > longer fed to the network stations. > Mr Ecclestone was in hospital this week undergoing heart surgery. I think > that they have removed it and replaced it with a bigger stone! > We now have a circus run by an idiot who makes rules by way of misguided > opinion and ignores the wishes of countless millions of people all over the > world. We now have a single person holding the main media outlet to the > world, to ransom. This of course doesn't even touch on his other monopolies. > Eccleshite has his pockets lined from almost every aspect of the sport from > tv rights down to who gets the contract to supply mobile shithouses at > Silverstone!!!!! > Net result. > We pay exorbitant prices for the cheapest tickets and have to queue from > dawn to dusk to stake a half decent claim on a piece of banking. We sit and > watch boring cars skitter around an emasculated track in the knowledge that > unless we have a Corporate box in front of the pits, we have more chance of > seeing the Loch Ness monster than a passing manoeuvre on track. In our > armchairs we now wonder how long it will be before Channel Ecclestone > finally pulls the plug on terrestrial tv and calls the shots as to how much > he will charge to bore us silly on a Sunday afternoon. Why the hell do we > put up with this? > My feeling is that we all hope that F1 will one day climb from the ashes and > rise like a Phoenix. Maybe we are clinging to it from a sense of loyalty, > trying to relive past glories. I'm sorry to say that from this day onwards, > I am officially declaring myself as an Ex F1 fan. These bastards will never > get another penny of mine to further line their corrupt pockets.I have a > feeling that one or two other people are starting to think along the same > lines. Shit happens, milk turns sour and F1 gets run by Bernie and Max. > Sorry facts of life..... > Mark > > Here in the UK, and according to www.autosport.com other European > countries > > too, F1 qualifying is no longer available unless you subscribe to Bernie's > > digital TV network (not yet available in UK, I might add) and pay circa > 10 > > per race (based on French prices). The quality of coverage in the races > has > > also been compromised by big BE in order to encourage people to shell out. > > With so many motorsports offering a better show, what's gonna happen? Are > > the sponsors who spend absolute fortunes at getting their brand names on > the > > sides of these machines going to be happy about the drastic audience > > reduction? I don't think so. I think BE has gone mad with his power. My > hope > > is that F1 in it's current guise dies (it's a soap opera, not a sport > > anymore). With -real- ovals being built in the UK and Germany, maybe CART > > could become the premier motorsport division - sure it's not the technical > > tour-de-force, but who gives a mokey's about that? And those that claim > full > > course yellows make it a non sport - did you see Canada? At least the > cars > > are still just that, cars. F1 gets more like wipeout each year - less > > contact with the road, more reliance on aero... > > Mark, pissed off 'cause he couldn't watch Barrichello get pole, > > Reading, UK > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Hi, Being the kinda pessimistic person i am i can only say Formula 1 is allready dead:(((( I was a huge fan for 15 years...but now i just watch out of habbit... bernie and his partners allready killed it...only someone with a good set of brain and a *true* love of the sport(and not just the $$$signs) will be able to save it. I'm getting drawn to indy more and more....they have safety...but they havent turned into the complete rulebook wusses which seem to be runnning F1 now. with a big sigh i sign dweezil

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>Here in the UK, and according to www.autosport.com other European countries >too, F1 qualifying is no longer available unless you subscribe to Bernie's >digital TV network (not yet available in UK, I might add) and pay circa 10 >per race (based on French prices). The quality of coverage in the races has >also been compromised by big BE in order to encourage people to shell out. >With so many motorsports offering a better show, what's gonna happen? Are >the sponsors who spend absolute fortunes at getting their brand names on the >sides of these machines going to be happy about the drastic audience >reduction? I don't think so. I think BE has gone mad with his power. My hope >is that F1 in it's current guise dies (it's a soap opera, not a sport >anymore). With -real- ovals being built in the UK and Germany, maybe CART >could become the premier motorsport division - sure it's not the technical >tour-de-force, but who gives a mokey's about that? And those that claim full >course yellows make it a non sport - did you see Canada? At least the cars >are still just that, cars. F1 gets more like wipeout each year - less >contact with the road, more reliance on aero... >Mark, pissed off 'cause he couldn't watch Barrichello get pole, >Reading, UK >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Tell you what! We here in the states will take Bernie and Max off you hands and turn control of racing here in the US to them. But you have to take Tony George and let him do likewise! buzard

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> Here in the UK, and according to www.autosport.com other European countries > too, F1 qualifying is no longer available unless you subscribe to Bernie's > digital TV network (not yet available in UK, I might add) and pay circa 10 > per race (based on French prices). The quality of coverage in the races has > also been compromised by big BE in order to encourage people to shell out. > With so many motorsports offering a better show, what's gonna happen? Are > the sponsors who spend absolute fortunes at getting their brand names on the > sides of these machines going to be happy about the drastic audience > reduction? I don't think so. I think BE has gone mad with his power. My hope > is that F1 in it's current guise dies (it's a soap opera, not a sport > anymore). With -real- ovals being built in the UK and Germany, maybe CART > could become the premier motorsport division - sure it's not the technical > tour-de-force, but who gives a mokey's about that? And those that claim full > course yellows make it a non sport - did you see Canada? At least the cars > are still just that, cars. F1 gets more like wipeout each year - less > contact with the road, more reliance on aero... > Mark, pissed off 'cause he couldn't watch Barrichello get pole, > Reading, UK > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:57:20 +0100, "Robin Lord" >>Mr Ecclestone was in hospital this week undergoing heart surgery. >Lets hope he suffers some *** complications. That's a pretty shocking thing to say about anyone... Cheers! John

Absolutely - did you see the Dutch TT yesterday! Especially the 250, 5 riders dicing for the lead right up to the chequered flag - awesome:-) - Michael

"Shocking", certainly. "Hypocritical"....not at all! :o)

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> On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:57:20 +0100, "Robin Lord" > >>Mr Ecclestone was in hospital this week undergoing heart surgery. > >Lets hope he suffers some *** complications. > That's a pretty shocking thing to say about anyone... > Cheers! > John

This whole thread really belongs in rasf1, quite clearly. Incidentally, ITV have no such contract Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.