What I hate about GPL

No, it's not the difficulty, or the CPU-hungry physics engine. It's the God-damn INI files. I tinker with GPL every month or two, but don't play it all the time. So it seems like every time I do I'm scurrying off to the net to find reminders on how to edit ini files (to change basic things like the AI strength, whether I'm racing F1/F3s, etc.). Why on eath a GPal-like interface wasn't included for tweaking these files I'll never understand. Hell, just having a slider for AI strength alone probably would have doubled GPL sales. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Sorry to be cynical, but just how much is Jack paying you? No offense Jack - keep up the good work, but a slider doubling sales? - I'm not so sure. Paul

<snip> I think it might have increased them....doubling may be pushing it but im sure it would have sold at least another half the units GPL has sold to date. Chris

i dont think it would cuz i didnt read a review of the game or try the demo i just saw it on the shelf and bought it cuz it looked good and i wanted to drive rounf the ring and spa! am i just an impulse buyer!

There is just such an AI Tweaker available at http://www.grandprix2.com/gpl/patches written by Kar Ikonen. This is a brilliant utility for tweaking not only the AI's, but track files, and mechanical reliability, and it has more sliders than you can shake a stick at. Steve

Quoted text (10 lines)

>No, it's not the difficulty, or the CPU-hungry physics engine. It's >the God-damn INI files. I tinker with GPL every month or two, but >don't play it all the time. So it seems like every time I do I'm >scurrying off to the net to find reminders on how to edit ini files >(to change basic things like the AI strength, whether I'm racing >F1/F3s, etc.). >Why on eath a GPal-like interface wasn't included for tweaking these >files I'll never understand. Hell, just having a slider for AI >strength alone probably would have doubled GPL sales.

Hmm... not so sure, I've got a very big stick here, a tree trunk infact... -- Tim "Calm Down" Wheatley ________________________________________________ Tim Wheatley "Yellow menacing helmet in the mirror" http://start.at/igps_stats IGPS - Ferrari Challenge - UKGPL - Summer Cup Driver http://drive.to/grandprixlegends http://website.lineone.net/~nascar ________________________________________________

>There is just such an AI Tweaker available at >[link lost in import] >written by Kar Ikonen. This is a brilliant utility for tweaking not only the >AI's, but track files, and mechanical reliability, and it has more sliders >than you can shake a stick at. Thx! Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

I can see the updated Sierra Box art now.... GPL2 now with AI sliders.... whoo boy the crowds are gonna pack them stores..:) dave henrie

ddjhenrie schrieb: Those poor sales clerks, being bombarded 300 times a day with the question: "Sir, what the hell are AI sliders???" "Hmmm, well, eeh, I don't know!" l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

I reckon if you could adjust AI strength and, more significantly, race seasons in the lower classes there would have been a -lot- more sales. Not least of all because reviewers would have had a less hard time with it and wouldn't have scared so many people off. Of course, the main reason it didn't sell so well was because it didn't have a tasty NASCAR/F1/CART licence. Damn shame, really, as it more than likely means there'll not be a GPL 2. N3 on hold, TAR canned, is GPL the last of breed? Mark Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I think what Joe means is that there would of been less people returning GPL to the stores. David G Fisher

Party, and that it would have gotten better reviews. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

I'm wondering if GT Interactive or whomever had the TAR project, got wind of the GPL sales figures, then took a look at the supposedly "real as GPL" Trans Am project and just pulled the plug....Anyone? dave henrie

> I'm wondering if GT Interactive or whomever had the TAR project, got wind >of the GPL sales figures, then took a look at the supposedly "real as GPL" >Trans Am project and just pulled the plug....Anyone? I'm a fan of the Trans Am era, and think I'd LOVE that sim. I'm also in the small (either that, or very quiet) minority that likes race sims but isn't infatuated with GPL. Basically, I love the realism, but the game doesn't grab me. I still bought GPL, but there might be a lot of people like me who didn't. I also think fans of the cars modeled in Trans Am Racing and muscle cars probably outnumber fans of late 60's Gran Prix cars by a multitude. In other words, I don't think it was strictly the realism/difficulty of GPL that hurt its sales. I wouldn't have purchased it *at all* if it had anything less than the most incredible physics model yet. Just one Heretics opinion. =8^P Tim

> I'm a fan of the Trans Am era, and think I'd LOVE that sim. > I'm also in the small (either that, or very quiet) minority that likes > race sims but isn't infatuated with GPL. > Basically, I love the realism, but the game doesn't grab me. > I still bought GPL, but there might be a lot of people like me who > didn't. Fair enough. Personally, I've never felt so much satisfaction at just not coming last - I feel like I have to deal with all of the pressures a real race driver has to (other than the physical ones, of course) Probably do in the States. I'd be interested to find out what sales figures of GPL were like in the UK. I'll bet it did a lot better (relatively speaking) than it did in the US. It's just that a NASCAR/CART licence here wouldn't have anything like the draw it would in the US, and I'm betting that there's more of a following of classic GP stuff here given it's pre***ly European heritage. I'd love to have seen TAR too, though. Good to hear it. Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I don't think so, I don't think the average gamer has heard of Trans Am Racing, much less want to play a sim of it. The sport of F1 is much larger than the sport of Trans Am racing. Thus, there are more people that would buy GPL over Trans Am racing. Also, remember muscle cars is mostly an American thing, again narrowing the market of the game.

Quoted text (7 lines)

>I don't think so, I don't think the average gamer has heard of Trans Am >Racing, much less want to play a sim of it. >The sport of F1 is much larger than the sport of Trans Am racing. Thus, >there are more people that would buy GPL over Trans Am racing. >Also, remember muscle cars is mostly an American thing, again narrowing the >market of the game.

Well, the average gamer is probably playing Links or Quake2. That isn't the market any *** sim is shooting for. Are you suggesting that GPL sold disproportionately higher in Europe/UK than it did in the US? NASCAR is an "American thing", and I bet Sierra/Papy wishes GPL sold a third of what NASCAR Racing 2 did. I would expect the overseas market for Trans Am racing to be like MGPRS2, Colin McRae Rally, or Toca2 are here... basically non-entities. I wanted to buy Toca2 based on the demo. Went to Electronics Boutique, and they had it listed as "discontinued" in their computer before one copy ever hit the shelf. I guess you have to buy it mail-order. The US buyer can relate to the cars in Trans Am much better that the cars in GPL. They are embedded in our culture. If you don't want it where you're at, thats cool with me. I think it'd sell enough here to be a success, just like the games I mentioned above were for Europe. Tim

>Probably do in the States. I'd be interested to find out what sales figures >of GPL were like in the UK. I'll bet it did a lot better (relatively >speaking) than it did in the US. It's just that a NASCAR/CART licence here >wouldn't have anything like the draw it would in the US, and I'm betting that >there's more of a following of classic GP stuff here given it's pre***ly >European heritage. I'd love to have seen TAR too, though. I just posed the same question before I saw your reply, Mark. For some reason, your reply ended up out of thread, and I almost missed it. I definitely agree that Trans Am would be much more regionally popular. That's true of games/sims like Toca2, Colin McRae, or MGPRS2, and I think they were all successful sales-wise. I haven't seen any of them on the shelves here in the Eastern US, although I'd snag any one of them immediately (heard MGPRS2 was in the discount bins here as soon as it came out =8^/ ). Tim

Quoted text (11 lines)

>>I also think fans of the cars modeled in Trans Am Racing and muscle >>cars probably outnumber fans of late 60's Gran Prix cars by a >>multitude. >I don't think so, I don't think the average gamer has heard of Trans Am >Racing, much less want to play a sim of it. >The sport of F1 is much larger than the sport of Trans Am racing. Thus, >there are more people that would buy GPL over Trans Am racing. >Also, remember muscle cars is mostly an American thing, again narrowing the >market of the game.

Beg to differ with you,but Trans-Am racing still exists,and one can catch it on TV. I saw the F1 race at the Glen in 1967,but I saw a lot more Trans-Am races. We road racing fans were much more into Trans-Am and Can-Am since we could follow more of each series. And as far as Trans-Am being a American thing,so is Nascar. Joel Willstein

I beg to differ <G> F1 has a minimal following over here in the United States. Trans-Am Racing as well as Can-Am racing were extremely popular over here in the US and the Trans-Am Series is still racing to this day. The Can-Am series name is also going strong today here in the US. Although they are American, there is a market for a Trans-Am and a Can-Am simulation. Remember to look at the sales of some of the F1 simulations. Did ok in Europe but sold minimally here in the Unites States. The US is a very important market for racing simulation software developers. This is NOT an argument over the validity of F1 or anything of the such, just that F1 is not nearly as popular over here in theUS as it is in Europe, etc. NASCAR rules the roost over here in the US <G> Although they were before my time (born in 71).. I love the Historic Trans-Am and Can-Am. Scott PA-Scott G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com High Gear Editor - "The View" - http://www.simracingnews.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

All I was saying was that there is a small market of people who like Trans Am racing in the States, and basicly only in America. Nascar is an America thing, but it's much larger than Trans Am, and if Nascar doesn't sell well over sea's, then Trans Am doesn't have much hope. I realize that the US is the largest market for games, but alot of racing games sell better over sea's, F1RS for example.

All I'm saying it's a very small market, and that I would be suprised if it did well in terms of sells.

Again,I think you're missing our point. More true racing fans here know of Trans-Am racing than care one way or the other about F1. TV coverage is poor to none depending on the cable company you have. And the few F1 races I've caught this year on TV has literally put me to sleep. Compare that to the lap by lap race action at the latest Trans-Am race at Mosport. I was glued to my chair the whole time. Auto sim producers realize that different forms of racing are popular in different countries,and that no series rules the roost. This certainly is a problem that they must over come by producing sims that will sell well in their targeted markets,and markets are the key. I'm still convinced that if Papyrus made didn't make gpl but took the physics engine and produced at top flight Cart sim,it would have sold 10 fold. Joel Willstein

Really, I have never seen a Trans Am race on TV. I live in the US. I do have to go out of my way to watch F1 racing though. I guess that means I'm not a true racing fan, but that's kinda what I was getting at anyway. There are a lot of people who don't know what Trans Am racing is all about (myself included). Most every body has heard of F1 though.

Trans Am racing in the US has a rich history. In the beginning it was basically a rough and tumble sport on road courses. Gurney, Jones, Follmer, Donohue, and Savage are some of the guys who ran em. these guys were true legends in many areas of autoracing. I think if you had much interest in racing you would have at least heard of it. Dave

> Really, I have never seen a Trans Am race on TV. I live in the US. In my area (Dallas) the Trans Am races are shown on Fox Sports (I believe) a week or so delayed from their original airing on Speedvision. They also seem to rerun them a second time, which I appreciate. -- Matthew V. Jessick Motorsims Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (972)910-8866 Ext.125, Fax: (972)910-8216

After close to 18 months of work TAR was a great demo of a physics engine but was still not a playable game. GT got tired of waiting and pulled the plug. The TAR crew is now at work on their new project The Dukes of Hazard Game! <== I'm not making this up! GT is looking for another developer for the title. buzard

Quoted text (16 lines)

> >I reckon if you could adjust AI strength and, more significantly, race > >seasons in the lower classes there would have been a -lot- more sales. Not > >least of all because reviewers would have had a less hard time with it and > >wouldn't have scared so many people off. Of course, the main reason it > didn't > >sell so well was because it didn't have a tasty NASCAR/F1/CART licence. > Damn > >shame, really, as it more than likely means there'll not be a GPL 2. > >N3 on hold, TAR canned, is GPL the last of breed? > >Mark > I'm wondering if GT Interactive or whomever had the TAR project, got wind > of the GPL sales figures, then took a look at the supposedly "real as GPL" > Trans Am project and just pulled the plug....Anyone? > dave henrie

I think you've been very clear about your point and you're probably right if you are talking US market only, but it seems to me that GPL has a *very* international following which is as it should be: F1 is *the* World Series of auto racing. I think Papyrus made exactly the right choice. BTW the lack of exitement in this years F1 races is Bernie Ecclestone's fault not the cars or drivers or whatever. All you've really convince me of is that you are not a true fan of F1. I was 16 in 1967 and CAN-AM was hot and TRANS-AM was just getting started, but for me once and always F1 will be king. snip.... the few F1 races