Real GPL crowds (who needs textures)

That would be fun, eg. for events like the Professional Gamers League: PGL going GPL - GPL going PGL? Even more interesting would be the chance to "race" in the champions race with your own GPL car at home, with the cars of the champs acting as ghosts or AI. -- Matthias Flatt

Heh, sounds like fun to me. I had a ball just watching a replay of Grahme Nash winning a race at Kyalami by a few feet against an AI car, so I can't image how much fun it'd be to see live online racing! :) Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

What you'd need is some form of spectator mode like in Quake etc so you could wander around the track all invisible and watch from where you wanted, even in the air. M

Looks very nice to me! Also very useful when you want somebody who is looking if there are no rules broken by someone. Greetinx Micha?l Hompus > > >Assuming enough people are actually interested in watching, of course... > > Heh, sounds like fun to me. I had a ball just watching a replay of Grahme Nash > > winning a race at Kyalami by a few feet against an AI car, so I can't image how > > much fun it'd be to see live online racing! :) > Great - looks like there are at least four people who'd want to watch! > ;-)

you can say what you wanted to say over again? Thanks. Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

> I had a mad idea the other day - wouldn't it be great if us ordinary > mortal GPL fans could watch a world championship race in real time? > <snip> > Assuming enough people are actually interested in watching, of course... Yes. please!!! J. P. Hovercraft

for the NROS, since it's an official NASCAR sanctioned series.... this has been though for years. The main problem is that even for today the connections aren't enough fast. Just think about how much download you would need to see all the cars on the track. Because even in GPL when you race online, you see what 4-5cars forward on fast connections and 1 in your mirrors, no ? Now just imagine if you had ALL the cars. And on the NROS it means 24cars. It's the current limitation. Even with ADSL and Cable-modem, it's barely acceptable. Especially with GPL and it's physics. But for the future, there is a great market for such a thing, and incredible possibilities. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You are not alone in this thought Neil. I have been thinking about this for a long time now. All it would take would be a server to receive data streamed from the race feed. A function that would not be too hard to incorporate. This in turn could be fed out in the manner you describe. Cut down client viewing software - IE the replay part of most programs (freeware), could be distributed on mag covers and be available to download on the web. If we had the co-operation of the software houses and manufacturers of hardware on this one, imagine the possibilities. Semi Pro racing might not be too far off. Software could be demoed in real time to prospective buyers in a much more exiting manner, kudos would be gained by winning hardware manufacturers ....hundreds of people watching a race, A driver using a TSW wheel wins the race. TSW gets loads of orders in the next week. Sound familiar? Mark

remember that there is no need to sent car locations back to the server, so it will need 50% less bandwidth. so that is at least 10 cars in front, 2 in the mirrors :) Greetinx Micha?l Hompus

Yes that is a good point, but this only take off any need to upload. Taking off upload doesn't mean you will accelerate the download. Still, the cars could update half the time as when we are racing normally (that would make what you said correct) ;-) With a good prediction code like on the NROS ovals, it shouldn't make a big difference, I speculate. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

That's a problem with AOL. The concept is good where you can't receive (virus) files, But, Valid files are a real pain to receive. If you see me in GSB, and you have the RW software, and are NOT using AOL to race with, I'll give you the file needed. C-ya on the track, Mike Barlow > you can say what you wanted to say over again? Thanks. > Dan Belcher > Team Racing Unlimited -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://www.pivot.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Well to best point is that the processor needs to do less to :) If you have a little lag the only thing you will see is a car that is jumping some more. But the computer does not have to predict and Correct as much as when you are really a driver. And also the computer does not to have to simulate the car, the whole driving simulation engine can be set off... Just some toughts... Greetinx Micha?l Hompus

Hey, hick boy, send that replay to a Northern Yankee

>you can say what you wanted to say over again? Thanks. >Dan Belcher >Team Racing Unlimited Hey hick boy, yes you can. Just turn off the parental blocker.

It's not really true, Fran?ois. When you watch a race it's okay if the information is a bit delayed. Even several seconds would be quite okay. Imagine you getting a packet per car per second, and then the sim could just wait until it gets two packets holding information of the same car, then the sim could just "fill in the blanks", which wouldn't be too hard to implement. A better solution would probably be to wait for the third packet for the car, to "fill in the blanks" between the first and second packet, but what do I know :o). Say with a 28.8 modem you would receive from one puter and send to three others, this means you would get around 750 bytes of bandwidth for the car data, per second. For 15 cars it's 50 bytes of data per car, which surely is implementable. Maybe even 30 cars would be implementable... It should be on a 56k modem... /Christer

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> The main problem is that even for today the connections aren't enough fast. > Just think about how much download you would need to see all the cars on the > track. Because even in GPL when you race online, you see what 4-5cars > forward on fast connections and 1 in your mirrors, no ? > Now just imagine if you had ALL the cars. And on the NROS it means 24cars. > It's the current limitation. Even with ADSL and Cable-modem, it's barely > acceptable. Especially with GPL and it's physics. But for the future, there > is a great market for such a thing, and incredible possibilities. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> > -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ > -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ > -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

-- http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

That wouldn't be very fair to Mr Stewart and Mr Schumacher, now would it :o). /Christer, thinking they wouldn't have any chance at all against the GPL hotshots > What about an online race between Jackie Stewart and Michael Schumaker, > with some GPL hotshots thrown in? -- http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

That would be great!! Maybe some kind of app could be written to deliver the races in real-time to a browser, like AMA Superbike is said to be able to do when it's released. -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" (Calvin & Hobbes)

You can download it from here, if my ISP hasn't deleted the file... http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gpl/races/kya_race.htm -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" (Calvin & Hobbes)

hehe Mark

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> That wouldn't be very fair to Mr Stewart and Mr Schumacher, now would > it :o). > /Christer, thinking they wouldn't have any chance at all against the > GPL hotshots > > What about an online race between Jackie Stewart and Michael Schumaker, > > with some GPL hotshots thrown in? > -- > http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online > racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, > cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

I had a mad idea the other day - wouldn't it be great if us ordinary mortal GPL fans could watch a world championship race in real time? Better than watching TV, as you can use the replay facility to switch to any driver in any view, and backtrack if you see something interesting. Then I realised that this could actually work - the same code that allows up to 20 cars to take part in a single race could be modified to allow thousands (or even millions) of people to watch a race in real time, without affecting the performance of the race server itself. All that needs to happen is for one computer to join the race as a spectator (ie. it doesn't have a car of its own, but it receives the position information for the other cars), and then anyone else joining the race as a spectator will actually join this machine rather than the actual race machine. This is a bit of a simplification: in fact it would have to work as a tree structure: the first machine joins the actual race, the next 20 (or maybe less depending on performance) join this machine, the next 400 join the second-level machines, etc. etc. Even if you assume that each node in the tree can only support 4 other machines, you'd only need 10 levels of indirection for a crowd of well over 1 million (that gives over 1000,000 'leaf' nodes, plus the ones higher up the tree), which is not really a problem as there is no need for information to flow back up the tree, so there are no synchronisation problems and no degradation of performance. (It's possible to put in a slight time delay to give delayed packets time to arrive). This approach would need the cooperation of the central VROC server to store the IP addresses of all nodes in the tree, so that new people joining would automatically be assigned places at the 'branch' end of the tree, and it could also allow automatic reassignment if one of the machines in the tree were to break down (or be thrown out of the window by the spouse of the ***ed GPL fan, say). All you'd see in GSB would be a single race, but when you join as a spectator the GSB client asks the VROC server for which node it should actually join, and in return the client machine's IP address is added to the tree. It's really much simpler than the stuff that GPL already does in order to support online racing! All we need then is built-in voice support to allow one or more commentators to broadcast to everyone in their part of the tree (localised for different countries of course) and we have a global media event of staggering proportions! Assuming enough people are actually interested in watching, of course...

> >Assuming enough people are actually interested in watching, of course... > Heh, sounds like fun to me. I had a ball just watching a replay of Grahme Nash > winning a race at Kyalami by a few feet against an AI car, so I can't image how > much fun it'd be to see live online racing! :) Great - looks like there are at least four people who'd want to watch! ;-)

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> > Then I realised that this could actually work - the same code that > > allows up to 20 cars to take part in a single race could be modified to > > allow thousands (or even millions) of people to watch a race in real > > time, without affecting the performance of the race server itself. > for the NROS, since it's an official NASCAR sanctioned series.... this has > been though for years. > The main problem is that even for today the connections aren't enough fast. > Just think about how much download you would need to see all the cars on the > track. Because even in GPL when you race online, you see what 4-5cars > forward on fast connections and 1 in your mirrors, no ? > Now just imagine if you had ALL the cars. And on the NROS it means 24cars. > It's the current limitation. Even with ADSL and Cable-modem, it's barely > acceptable. Especially with GPL and it's physics. But for the future, there > is a great market for such a thing, and incredible possibilities.

I really don't think there is a problem with speed - the point is that the Amway-style* networking system I've described distributes the load equally between all machines in the tree, and because there is no need to transmit any information back up the tree, there are NO synchronisation problems to worry about. Additionally, since information flow is one way only, it's possible to almost completely eliminate latency problems - all you need to do is to get each machine to buffer car positions in the background so that it doesn't need to display the next frame until (say) 10 seconds after it should have received the next set of car positions (by which time it should already have the next several seconds' worth of positions buffered up as well). This way, if there is a delay between packets of anything less than 10 seconds (or whatever the time delay is set to), the user notices absolutely nothing. This means that the only jitter the spectators see is exactly that which the race server sees - ie. the latency in the drivers' machines sending their positions to the host. The only reason there is a problem with latency when racing is that information flow has to be two-way, so it's not possible to buffer up positions and display them later. Note that if they were going to do this seriously the race organisers would probably set up the top-node spectator machine themselves on a LAN connected to the race server, and possibly even have language-specific servers at the next level as well, since the machines at the top of the tree are the most critical to the working of the system - if any machine goes down, all machines that were connected to it (and any others below them) will have to wait while the machines that were directly connected to the failed one renegotiate with VROC to get the IP addresses of alternative hosts. Of course, if you set the display time delay to 10 minutes or so, there will nearly always be time to reconnect before the user notices anything. [*] In case you haven't heard of them (!) Amway is the company that pioneered network marketing in the states, whereby each person recruits several other people and sells stuff to them, which they then send to more people that they recruit, etc. etc.

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> http://WWW.Resounding.com Here you can pick up a "voice" communications > application called "Roger Wilco". With this ap, You log onto an IP address > and voice chat with other people with that app. My self(Barlow_Racing), > Ross MacGreggor(MacWun), Mark seery(Mark_Seery), have been rigorously > testing this app while online in GSB. We have even went as far as chatting > while racing against each other in GPL. Even when someone got booted from > the race, we were still able to voice chat with them and give a play-by-play > of the action. This app is free ware. The demo has a 15 minute limit > between uses. However, it's FREE to register it. When registering it, > you're asked some basic questions and you get a registration key set to get > rid of that 15 minute time limit. > [SNIPPED]

Didn't someone say earlier that they'd found the BattleCom system to be more efficient, ie. make less of an impact on fps in flight simulators. I also heard that Microsoft has bought them out so that they can put this into DirectX 8, so they obviously think it's worth using! Would it be worth trying out this system instead, or is that just too much hassle now that you've already got the RW stuff going?

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> You are not alone in this thought Neil. I have been thinking about this for > a long time now. All it would take would be a server to receive data > streamed from the race feed. A function that would not be too hard to > incorporate. This in turn could be fed out in the manner you describe. Cut > down client viewing software - IE the replay part of most programs > (freeware), could be distributed on mag covers and be available to download > on the web. > If we had the co-operation of the software houses and manufacturers of > hardware on this one, imagine the possibilities. Semi Pro racing might not > be too far off. Software could be demoed in real time to prospective buyers > in a much more exiting manner, kudos would be gained by winning hardware > manufacturers ....hundreds of people watching a race, A driver using a TSW > wheel wins the race. TSW gets loads of orders in the next week. Sound > familiar?

Dead right! The thing is, I really don't think it would take much for Papy to put this into the game, as a lot of the functionality is pretty similar to what already happens when racing. The main extra work would need to go into the VROC server and GSB, as they would have to maintain the list of the crowd's IP addresses and negotiate to find suitable hosts. There's no doubt that this type of system will become a huge commercial success for someone in the future, but I guess they need to get all the elements in place at the right time, including sponsorship, media interest etc. etc. What about an online race between Jackie Stewart and Michael Schumaker, with some GPL hotshots thrown in?

Brilliant, and I do believe it would be feasible with todays technology... I think I had a similar idea posted earlier in this NG. I didn't realize then that the viewer-client could be viewer-servers themself, which is brilliant, Neil :o). Professional sim racing, could be around the corner... /Christer, would be watching :o)

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> I had a mad idea the other day - wouldn't it be great if us ordinary > mortal GPL fans could watch a world championship race in real time? > Better than watching TV, as you can use the replay facility to switch to > any driver in any view, and backtrack if you see something interesting. > Then I realised that this could actually work - the same code that > allows up to 20 cars to take part in a single race could be modified to > allow thousands (or even millions) of people to watch a race in real > time, without affecting the performance of the race server itself. > All that needs to happen is for one computer to join the race as a > spectator (ie. it doesn't have a car of its own, but it receives the > position information for the other cars), and then anyone else joining > the race as a spectator will actually join this machine rather than the > actual race machine. > This is a bit of a simplification: in fact it would have to work as a > tree structure: the first machine joins the actual race, the next 20 (or > maybe less depending on performance) join this machine, the next 400 > join the second-level machines, etc. etc. > Even if you assume that each node in the tree can only support 4 other > machines, you'd only need 10 levels of indirection for a crowd of well > over 1 million (that gives over 1000,000 'leaf' nodes, plus the ones > higher up the tree), which is not really a problem as there is no need > for information to flow back up the tree, so there are no > synchronisation problems and no degradation of performance. (It's > possible to put in a slight time delay to give delayed packets time to > arrive). > This approach would need the cooperation of the central VROC server to > store the IP addresses of all nodes in the tree, so that new people > joining would automatically be assigned places at the 'branch' end of > the tree, and it could also allow automatic reassignment if one of the > machines in the tree were to break down (or be thrown out of the window > by the spouse of the ***ed GPL fan, say). > All you'd see in GSB would be a single race, but when you join as a > spectator the GSB client asks the VROC server for which node it should > actually join, and in return the client machine's IP address is added to > the tree. > It's really much simpler than the stuff that GPL already does in order > to support online racing! > All we need then is built-in voice support to allow one or more > commentators to broadcast to everyone in their part of the tree > (localised for different countries of course) and we have a global media > event of staggering proportions! > Assuming enough people are actually interested in watching, of course...

-- http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

why seconds? I like more to dl the race replay when it is finished ... (in Spain the connection time is gold) ie: GPL Championship Race 1 Nurbur <-- Click to download Race 2 Monza ... ... Race N easier, isnt? :) McKafre De La Rosa

And we'd need a little utility to push the commercials graphics file from the race server to the entire connected tree, this way we'd get sponsors for races, sponsors for leagues, and we could offer VIP spectator packages, where the VIP spectator gets to talk to the drivers before the races etc... And of course pointless post-race interviews... ;-) And we'd get teamorders on-track, and we'd get drivers very anxious to loose the prize money, and in the process falling into in-line racing, waiting for errors and mistakes by the drivers in front. And then we'd get concord agreements with the winning teams, and we'd get our very own virtual Bernie Ecclestone, and Max Mosley. Who'd like to be Schumacher? Anyone? Or Jimmy Clark? ---Asgeir---

If you'd like to see a similar system in action ... CuSeeME from Cornell (the VC software) implemented a reflector system of satellite machines to enable lurking (ie. watching bu not really participating). From memory the reflector software was freely available off the Cornell pages. Unix reflectors were simple to setup ... I dropped out of this when CUSeeMe went more commercial, but I can't believe that the software isn't floating around somewhere ...

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> > You are not alone in this thought Neil. I have been thinking about this for > > a long time now. All it would take would be a server to receive data > > streamed from the race feed. A function that would not be too hard to > > incorporate. This in turn could be fed out in the manner you describe. Cut > > down client viewing software - IE the replay part of most programs > > (freeware), could be distributed on mag covers and be available to download > > on the web. > > If we had the co-operation of the software houses and manufacturers of > > hardware on this one, imagine the possibilities. Semi Pro racing might not > > be too far off. Software could be demoed in real time to prospective buyers > > in a much more exiting manner, kudos would be gained by winning hardware > > manufacturers ....hundreds of people watching a race, A driver using a TSW > > wheel wins the race. TSW gets loads of orders in the next week. Sound > > familiar? > Dead right! > The thing is, I really don't think it would take much for Papy to put > this into the game, as a lot of the functionality is pretty similar to > what already happens when racing. > The main extra work would need to go into the VROC server and GSB, as > they would have to maintain the list of the crowd's IP addresses and > negotiate to find suitable hosts. > There's no doubt that this type of system will become a huge commercial > success for someone in the future, but I guess they need to get all the > elements in place at the right time, including sponsorship, media > interest etc. etc. > What about an online race between Jackie Stewart and Michael Schumaker, > with some GPL hotshots thrown in?

-- Craig Craig Morgan Sun Microsystems Ltd Training Instructor Enterprise Services European Systems Training Centre (ESTC) Citygate Cross Street Tel: +44 (0)161 905 8155 UK Fax: +44 (0)161 962 4140 M33 7JF

If they were to have no chance against the GPL hotshots, we would finally proove that the GPL physics are at fault. I make the following assumption: If you make a digital box capable of giving dead accurate imputs to a F1 car, and placed it in place of the driver, and let the driver remotely steer the car with his electronic wheel and pedals, the driver would not be able to drive the car any faster than if he was sitting in the car himself. Far from it! And I find it very hard to believe that the GPL hotshots really are better drivers than Schumacher and Clark, Prost and Senna... ---Asgeir---

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> That wouldn't be very fair to Mr Stewart and Mr Schumacher, now would > it :o). > /Christer, thinking they wouldn't have any chance at all against the > GPL hotshots > > What about an online race between Jackie Stewart and Michael Schumaker, > > with some GPL hotshots thrown in? > -- > http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online > racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, > cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

: If they were to have no chance against the GPL hotshots, we would finally : proove that the GPL physics are at fault. : I make the following assumption: : If you make a digital box capable of giving dead accurate imputs to a F1 car, : and placed it in place of the driver, and let the driver remotely steer the : car with his electronic wheel and pedals, the driver would not be able to : drive the car any faster than if he was sitting in the car himself. Far from : it! Well, I'm not so sure - didn't one of the drivers say something along the lines of "it's the danger that makes it competitive - any fool could drive one of these things fast if it wasn't dangerous" - wish I could remember the exact quote. Sure, you'd have the disadvantage of not having the "feel" of the roll of the car - but you'd have the huge advantage of not risking your life in any crash. : And I find it very hard to believe that the GPL hotshots really are better : drivers than Schumacher and Clark, Prost and Senna... All depends what you mean by "better" - I'm damn sure that they're better players of GPL than Schumi, Clark, Prost would be. Sure, playing GPL isn't going to mean that you can just sit in a '67 car and do hotlaps for real better than the pros. I'm also sure that if the '67 drivers had GPL available they could use it to learn tracks. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Here's something you might want to look at... [link lost in import] They have been getting sponsorships for quite some time. Sponsors for individual races, multiple races, season ending, and I would only assume... for individual drivers too. Take a look. Mike Barlow BTW>: If you look at my tag line, you'll see there's a place there for another sponsor! With all the attention I'm getting here and on GSB.. It would be a boost to any potential sponsor.. (hint, hint ;-)

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> And we'd need a little utility to push the commercials graphics file from > the race server to the entire connected tree, this way we'd get sponsors for > races, sponsors for leagues, and we could offer VIP spectator packages, > where the VIP spectator gets to talk to the drivers before the races etc... > And of course pointless post-race interviews... ;-) > And we'd get teamorders on-track, and we'd get drivers very anxious to loose > the prize money, and in the process falling into in-line racing, waiting for > errors and mistakes by the drivers in front. And then we'd get concord > agreements with the winning teams, and we'd get our very own virtual Bernie > Ecclestone, and Max Mosley. > Who'd like to be Schumacher? Anyone? Or Jimmy Clark? > ---Asgeir---

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Hmmm. If this is anything to go by, I remember Villeneuve using GP2 to learn Spa. He stated at the time that although he thought the sim was fantastic, he would never be a good virtual racer. He went on to divulge the fact that he could only qualify in about 12th place in ace mode..... Mark

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> It's not really true, Fran?ois. When you watch a race it's okay if the > information is a bit delayed. Even several seconds would be quite > okay. Imagine you getting a packet per car per second, and then the > sim could just wait until it gets two packets holding information of > the same car, then the sim could just "fill in the blanks", which > wouldn't be too hard to implement. A better solution would probably be > to wait for the third packet for the car, to "fill in the blanks" > between the first and second packet, but what do I know :o). > Say with a 28.8 modem you would receive from one puter and send to > three others, this means you would get around 750 bytes of bandwidth > for the car data, per second. For 15 cars it's 50 bytes of data per > car, which surely is implementable. Maybe even 30 cars would be > implementable... It should be on a 56k modem...

In fact it can be much better than this. The key thing is that all packets containing positional information for the cars (it could just be one packet for all of them actually) need to contain the exact time of when the positions are intended for. That way the packets can arrive at any time within the buffering time delay, and the receiving machine can make a totally smooth replay on the fly. Of course, everything I've described could be ditched if they just implemented streaming-replay technology, as that would have the same effect. It would require a very fast server (or set of servers) if they didn't use the networked system of hosts and clients though. Commercially, streaming video is a much more attractive option, and this commercial pressure is likely to increase internet bandwidth to make it possible. Once that happens there will be a vast number of MPEG-streams to choose from, so the organisers of the GPL championship could just have their own MPEG channel - that means anyone could receive the broadcast. The point about my idea is that it could work NOW, even with the bandwidth that's currently available on the internet. Now all I have to do is to pursuade Papy to give me 1% of their advertising income from this venture... ;-)

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> If they were to have no chance against the GPL hotshots, we would finally > proove that the GPL physics are at fault. > I make the following assumption: > If you make a digital box capable of giving dead accurate imputs to a F1 car, > and placed it in place of the driver, and let the driver remotely steer the > car with his electronic wheel and pedals, the driver would not be able to > drive the car any faster than if he was sitting in the car himself. Far from > it! > And I find it very hard to believe that the GPL hotshots really are better > drivers than Schumacher and Clark, Prost and Senna...

They'd only be faster because they've practised more - I'm sure if a top F1 driver sat down and practised GPL for a few days he'd be right up there. No sim on a computer can be identical in feel to a real race car, due to the lack of G-forces, feel and 3D stereo all-round vision, so of course they would need to practise to get the feel of the car. Anyway, I believe that quite a few of the top GPL drivers are in fact top real-world race drivers as well (eg. Jon Crooke, Australian F2 champion, GPL hotshoe and businessman (making the HyperStimulator sim-racing "car")).

Hahaha, how much do you want? I could sponsor you with equipment, you know... Like running a newgroup for you! HAHAHA! ---Asgeir---

I've done it as a host from my system at work.(I don't race on it) I've seen some VERY good races. Exciting to watch! I'd name drivers, but I can't remember them at the moment... :-( Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>in a much more exiting manner, kudos would be gained by winning hardware >manufacturers ....hundreds of people watching a race, A driver using a TSW >wheel wins the race. TSW gets loads of orders in the next week. Sound >familiar? >Mark Sounds like bowling tournaments. Whatever ball wins the tournament sells BUNCHES the next week. Nevermind that the majority of buyers DON'T have the skill to *use* it... :-) Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I took you for someone else, in fact I took you for Mark Seery, no offence either way... It was extremely late at night when I posted this.... But I could run a Newsgroup for you... ---Asgeir--- > Hahaha, how much do you want? I could sponsor you with equipment, you > know... Like running a newgroup for you! HAHAHA! > ---Asgeir---

How about alt.Nissans.piss.all.over.triumphs. Can you get this one up for me Asgie <G> BTW I'm snapping your heels at Monaco now ;-) Cheers mate Mark

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> I took you for someone else, in fact I took you for Mark Seery, no > offence either way... It was extremely late at night when I posted > this.... > But I could run a Newsgroup for you... > ---Asgeir--- > > Hahaha, how much do you want? I could sponsor you with equipment, you > > know... Like running a newgroup for you! HAHAHA! > > ---Asgeir---

Nope, sorry about that, but I am all against capital letters in NG names. What about alt.nissans.suck.big.time? Or how about alt.autos.triumphs.are.better.than.new.crap? I have even more suggestions: alt.autos.triumphs.six.is.better.than.four? ;-) ---Asgeir---

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> How about alt.Nissans.piss.all.over.triumphs. > Can you get this one up for me Asgie <G> > BTW I'm snapping your heels at Monaco now ;-) > Cheers mate > Mark > > I took you for someone else, in fact I took you for Mark Seery, no > > offence either way... It was extremely late at night when I posted > > this.... > > But I could run a Newsgroup for you... > > ---Asgeir--- > > > Hahaha, how much do you want? I could sponsor you with equipment, you > > > know... Like running a newgroup for you! HAHAHA! > > > ---Asgeir---

Old ***actually. Mine is 16 this year. metter make that alt.six.is.better.than.3.and.1/2.cyl.most.of.the.time <G> Mark

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> ;-) > ---Asgeir--- > > How about alt.Nissans.piss.all.over.triumphs. > > Can you get this one up for me Asgie <G> > > BTW I'm snapping your heels at Monaco now ;-) > > Cheers mate > > Mark > > > I took you for someone else, in fact I took you for Mark Seery, no > > > offence either way... It was extremely late at night when I posted > > > this.... > > > But I could run a Newsgroup for you... > > > ---Asgeir--- > > > > Hahaha, how much do you want? I could sponsor you with equipment,

you > > > > know... Like running a newgroup for you! HAHAHA! > > > > ---Asgeir---