Logitec Wheel

Has any got or used the Logitech Wingman wheel? Does it have separate axis on the pedals? Any info would be useful. Thanks, Scott

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>Has any got or used the Logitech Wingman wheel? Does it have separate axis >on the pedals? >Any info would be useful. >Thanks, >Scott

Yes, the pedals can be configured for separate axes. It is an option in the Logitech driver software. The wheel is execellent, the smoothest force feedback wheel I have tried. The forces are a little weaker than some, but strong enough for the intended purpose. The big drawback with the Logitech are the pedals. They have too short travel, only about 1 inch for the brake, and weak springs. The springs can be swapped out for stronger ones purchased at Home Depot or other hardware store, but I have not read of anyone modifying the hardware to increase the pedal travel. Also, the CTFJ utility may be a good way to improve the apparent sensitivity of the brake, see the thread a page or so above this one. Note that you can plug the Logitech into a USB port, and still use other pedals on the gameport. This might not work in all games, but it does work in GPL. Keith.

I bought a Logitech FF and the wheel itself was great. Very precise. But as mentioned by Keith, the pedals are horrible. No travel and too sensitive. I returned them to the store for a complete refund and I'm still using my trusty old T2 until something better with FF comes along. I'm tempted by the ARC Labs but have yet to see one in a store. =:-D

One problem....The guy who wrote negatively on the short travel of the pedals is NOT Jacques Villeneuve. And If he does have Jacques skill for "adjusting" then he most certainly wouldn't be driving simple SIM games. We'd be watching that guy on the tele on Sunday driving against Jacques!

Jacques is pretty bad in the wet though, and it ain't suprising with that little travel. -- Robin. http://www.oppositelock.freeserve.co.uk Nurburgring and Grand Prix Legends Remove nospam from e-mail address to reply

Absolutely correct. There is nothing wrong with the logitech pedals. I am not that great of a sim driver but I am somehow dealing with it. In fact I don't even give it a second thought. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

How do you know? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >One problem....The guy who wrote negatively on the short travel of the pedals >is NOT Jacques Villeneuve. And If he does have Jacques skill for "adjusting" >then he most certainly wouldn't be driving simple SIM games. > We'd be watching that guy on the tele on Sunday driving against Jacques!

If the pedals are so good, why do you have to get used to them? Good pedals feel natural from the outset. Keith.

>If the pedals are so good, why do you have to get used to them? Good pedals feel >natural from the outset. Correct. I always thought the logitech pedals were good. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

well I would suppose Driving a Dodge Vip[err afterr getting out of your Geo Metro wouldn't feel all that natural at first, and you would have to learn to drive it (racing conditions here) but the Viper obviously outperfoms the metro. So then something dosn't have to come automatic and without learning to be good. A good example is GPL, who here felt naturalk the first time they drove it and started turning consistent laps right away, so I ask you... If GPL is so good, why do you have to get used to it? >> Once you get used to them, I think you can >>learn to control the Logitech pedals with a great deal of precision. >If the pedals are so good, why do you have to get used to them? Good pedals feel >natural from the outset. >Keith.

On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:01:10 -0400, "Piotr Tysowski"

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>> But as mentioned by Keith, the pedals are horrible. No travel and too >> sensitive. >You know, I've heard many, many complaints about the short travel of the >Logitech pedals. But to put things into perspective, here's what I found in >June's F1 Racing magazine: >Jacques Villeneuve uses just 1.7 cm (that's 2/3 of an inch) of throttle >travel, according to Patrick head. "Interestingly," said the Williams tech >director, "his traces reveal that his throttle sensitivity is as good as >anyone else's." >So how do you account for that? Once you get used to them, I think you can >learn to control the Logitech pedals with a great deal of precision.

Good post -- after trying a variety of pedals, I've reached the conclusion that you have to "re-learn" how to use each individual set, regardless of how "good" they are. In switching from my NASCAR Pro pedals (which rate low on my scale) to the TSW2 pedals, it still took a bit of getting used to, and I had to adapt to the pedal's different arc and travel before I could start to equal my previous times. Ditto every other set of pedals I've ever used. For me, it matters most if they pretty much stay put on their own. If they tip or tilt when you push on the pedals, that's entirely unacceptable to me. Other than that, I've found that I can adapt very nicely regardless of the travel, pedal size, tension, etc., but in every instance, there is that learning curve that you have to work through before you can be truly comfortable with the pedals. -- JB

>> Once you get used to them, I think you can >>learn to control the Logitech pedals with a great deal of precision. >If the pedals are so good, why do you have to get used to them? Good pedals feel >natural from the outset. Sorry, Keith -- I've got to disagree. REAL pedals in a car all feel "natural" because the layout from car to car is virtually identical, regardless of whether you're talking about a Yugo or a Corvette. Sim pedals aren't all created equal in that sense, but they all pretty much work equally well. Here's an example: I've never tried the ECCI pedals, but I wouldn't even begin to suggest that they're anything other than the very best pedals on the market (they had BETTER be, for the price). However, the ECCI pedals would require quite a learning curve for me because I am not a two-footed driver (I use my right foot for both brake and throttle). Also, I find that the ECCI pedal's angle looks a bit strange to me. Even my TSW pedals took some getting used to, because of the different tensioning, different amount of travel, etc. In the end, there's always a bit of learning curve -- and the same applies to the wheels themselves, although to a somewhat lesser degree. -- JB

As it was said several times in this NG: You can get used to it. I use my toe for the brake pedal - woks great, very sensitive. Jens --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

I have used four different sets of pedals. Logitech, Thrustmaster T2, CH and TSW. The Logitech are by far the worst - in my opinion. Only the Logitech had a big learning curve - in my opinion. They only have one problem - lack of travel on the brake pedal - in my opinion. If someone else likes the Logitech pedals, great for them. They should not feel threatened by my dislike of them. Race on, dudes. Keith.

:> But as mentioned by Keith, the pedals are horrible. No travel and too :> sensitive. : You know, I've heard many, many complaints about the short travel of the : Logitech pedals. But to put things into perspective, here's what I found in : June's F1 Racing magazine: : Jacques Villeneuve uses just 1.7 cm (that's 2/3 of an inch) of throttle : travel, according to Patrick head. "Interestingly," said the Williams tech : director, "his traces reveal that his throttle sensitivity is as good as : anyone else's." : So how do you account for that? Once you get used to them, I think you can : learn to control the Logitech pedals with a great deal of precision. You did miss out the next line of the article which went on to suggest that this small amount of travel could explain his lack of ability in the wet where sensitive throttle control is more important. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

I've Not tried the Logitech pedals. My experience with short travel pedals came in the form of the Digital edge f1 compact ones. (***y awful things BTW) I was almost glad when I finally broke them. Once they were installed in the bin, I was immediately 2 secs faster. Mark

And I have to disagree with you John. As a professional driving instructor, I often have to deal with customers wanting to learn how to use heel and toe techniques using their own vehicles (Advanced drivers here I hasten to add).. Some cars are perfect for this and others are nigh on impossible in terms of spacing, brake travel and relative heights. I get a new pupil instructon car every six months. (Always the same model) learner drivers always complain that the new car feels totally different and many have trouble coming to terms with differences in brake tension, clutch action etc. Mark

Keith, comparing the different wheels before purchase, for me the Logi had the smallest disadvantages (only pedals), so I bought it. There is no wheel on the market, which has my fully appreciation. It's better being able to get used to short pedal throw than to wrong (ridiculous) FF or missing split axis. Jens <hugging his Logitech>

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>> Once you get used to them, I think you can >>learn to control the Logitech pedals with a great deal of precision. >If the pedals are so good, why do you have to get used to them? Good pedals feel >natural from the outset. >Keith.

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>Keith, >comparing the different wheels before purchase, for me the Logi had >the smallest disadvantages (only pedals), so I bought it. There is no >wheel on the market, which has my fully appreciation. >It's better being able to get used to short pedal throw than to wrong >(ridiculous) FF or missing split axis. >Jens <hugging his Logitech>

I'm also in the process of trying to upgrade/replace my aging T2. And not wanting another Thrustmaster product,have narrowed my choices down to a TSW2 (basic model) for $220 plus $25 for shipping,and the Logitech Wingman Formula FF USB for $185( no shipping as I can get it locally). Right now I'm really leaning towards the TSW2. Joel Willstein

> I'm also in the process of trying to upgrade/replace my aging T2. And >not wanting another Thrustmaster product,have narrowed my choices down to a >TSW2 (basic model) for $220 plus $25 for shipping,and the Logitech Wingman >Formula FF USB for $185( no shipping as I can get it locally). > Right now I'm really leaning towards the TSW2. Are you in the US, Joel? You can get the Logitech for under $120 shipped. (www.buy.com) I know there is a lot of ***ing about buy.com, but I had my wheel in four days. Tim

You were luckier than me Tim, I wish I could have gotten my wheel in 4 days from buy.com, it would have saved me a whole lotta ***ing :-) buy.com is not your only choice for low $ on this wheel (I was one of those ***ing about them) after I cancelled my backordered Logitech from buy.com (they don't expect a new shipment until end of June) I got my new Logitech from compusanet.com in 2 days for $119 + 2 day shipping = $131 total. Nice wheel so far. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva >Are you in the US, Joel? You can get the Logitech for under $120 >shipped. (www.buy.com) >I know there is a lot of ***ing about buy.com, but I had my wheel in >four days. >Tim