GPL - Win98 Clean Install, Direct X & VooDoo II Drivers

Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I decided to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's always ask for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers first & then upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 itself AFTER installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the proper sequence? I haven't TOUCHED Win98 & won't until I get a consesus from r.a.s...:-) FWIW... PII 450 128 MB RAM SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) Win98 ( ugh ) TIA

What is ur problem exactly? Have u put the glide2x.dll (ver 2.53) in the gpl root dir?

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>Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I decided >to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: >Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's always ask >for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers first & then >upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? >Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 itself AFTER >installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the proper sequence? >I haven't TOUCHED Win98 & won't until I get a consesus from r.a.s...:-) >FWIW... >PII 450 128 MB RAM >SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) >Win98 ( ugh ) >TIA

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>>Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I decided >>to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: >>Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's always ask >>for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers first & then >>upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? >>Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 itself AFTER >>installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the proper sequence? >>PII 450 128 MB RAM >>SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) >>Win98 ( ugh ) >What is ur problem exactly?

With the above setup & VooDoo II's in SLI, running at 800 X 600, I get very nice graphics. About 20 fps on the grid at Monza. As soon as I hit Curva Grande, I get 36 fps which continue throughout a race. However... At random times, I experience what I can best describe as a "hiccup". This glitch lasts less than a second but is *very* distracting. It's a though the CPU is being interrupted. It happens in all tracks as soon as I race with 17 - 19 AI. I have yet to experience it turning hot laps. I've just re-formatted my drive & re-installed Win98. I was just wondering if the sequence of installing VooDoo drivers & Direct X might make a difference. Yes. I also tried 3dfx reference drivers. Same deal. Swapped VooDoo II's with a friend who has V2 1000's ( old STB's ). Same deal. If I can't get this fixed, might drop back to Win95. Yikes. -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

Might it be disk activity? Do you have fast find installed? If so get rid of it from your startup folder. Maybe you could try setting up a permanent swap file of 4-500 Mb. This should solve any disk related problems. Mark > >>Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I decided > >>to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: > >>Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's always ask > >>for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers first & then > >>upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? > >>Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 itself AFTER > >>installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the proper sequence?

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> >>PII 450 128 MB RAM > >>SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) > >>Win98 ( ugh ) > >What is ur problem exactly? > With the above setup & VooDoo II's in SLI, running at 800 X 600, I get > very nice graphics. About 20 fps on the grid at Monza. As soon as I > hit Curva Grande, I get 36 fps which continue throughout a race. > However... > At random times, I experience what I can best describe as a "hiccup". > This glitch lasts less than a second but is *very* distracting. It's a > though the CPU is being interrupted. It happens in all tracks as soon > as I race with 17 - 19 AI. I have yet to experience it turning hot > laps. > I've just re-formatted my drive & re-installed Win98. I was just > wondering if the sequence of installing VooDoo drivers & Direct X > might make a difference. > >Have u put the glide2x.dll (ver 2.53) in the gpl root dir? > Yes. I also tried 3dfx reference drivers. Same deal. Swapped > VooDoo II's with a friend who has V2 1000's ( old STB's ). Same > deal. If I can't get this fixed, might drop back to Win95. > Yikes. > -- > " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

To actually answer your original question. I usually put all the drivers in before Dx 6.1. If you don't all you have to do is install Dx 6.1 again after you install the latest driver. Also if you run the beta reference drivers (3dfx says they are for Quake III) it will fix the 2.53 or 2.54 problem. Hope this helped, Rick Miller (Arrowhead)

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> Might it be disk activity? > Do you have fast find installed? If so get rid of it from your startup > folder. > Maybe you could try setting up a permanent swap file of 4-500 Mb. This > should solve any disk related problems. > Mark > > >>Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I > decided > > >>to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: > > >>Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's > always ask > > >>for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers first

& > then > > >>upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? > > >>Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 itself

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> AFTER > > >>installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the proper > sequence? > > >>PII 450 128 MB RAM > > >>SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) > > >>Win98 ( ugh ) > > >What is ur problem exactly? > > With the above setup & VooDoo II's in SLI, running at 800 X 600, I get > > very nice graphics. About 20 fps on the grid at Monza. As soon as I > > hit Curva Grande, I get 36 fps which continue throughout a race. > > However... > > At random times, I experience what I can best describe as a "hiccup". > > This glitch lasts less than a second but is *very* distracting. It's a > > though the CPU is being interrupted. It happens in all tracks as soon > > as I race with 17 - 19 AI. I have yet to experience it turning hot > > laps. > > I've just re-formatted my drive & re-installed Win98. I was just > > wondering if the sequence of installing VooDoo drivers & Direct X > > might make a difference. > > >Have u put the glide2x.dll (ver 2.53) in the gpl root dir? > > Yes. I also tried 3dfx reference drivers. Same deal. Swapped > > VooDoo II's with a friend who has V2 1000's ( old STB's ). Same > > deal. If I can't get this fixed, might drop back to Win95. > > Yikes. > > -- > > " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

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> >>Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I decided > >>to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: > >>Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's always ask > >>for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers first & then > >>upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? > >>Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 itself AFTER > >>installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the proper sequence? > >>PII 450 128 MB RAM > >>SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) > >>Win98 ( ugh ) > >What is ur problem exactly? > With the above setup & VooDoo II's in SLI, running at 800 X 600, I get > very nice graphics. About 20 fps on the grid at Monza. As soon as I > hit Curva Grande, I get 36 fps which continue throughout a race. > However... > At random times, I experience what I can best describe as a "hiccup". > This glitch lasts less than a second but is *very* distracting. It's a > though the CPU is being interrupted. It happens in all tracks as soon > as I race with 17 - 19 AI. I have yet to experience it turning hot > laps. > I've just re-formatted my drive & re-installed Win98. I was just > wondering if the sequence of installing VooDoo drivers & Direct X > might make a difference. > >Have u put the glide2x.dll (ver 2.53) in the gpl root dir? > Yes. I also tried 3dfx reference drivers. Same deal. Swapped > VooDoo II's with a friend who has V2 1000's ( old STB's ). Same > deal. If I can't get this fixed, might drop back to Win95.

First of all: If you use Glide than the Direct X stuff has nothing to do with it (anymore). since you experience this hickup in both scenarios (in Glide and DirectX mode) I think the problem is not related to the graphics card (and/or drivers at all). Since I experience these hickups as well (in both MGPRS2 and in GPL (the latter at a lower rate but nevertheless) and found out that it has probably to do with the controller (i.c.w. your gameport) I think you're dealin' with the same problem. This has nothing to do with your CPU-power (in fact the effect becomes more noticeable with a more powerfull cpu) but more the way your gameport handles request from your steering wheel. If it't the good old Analog Gameport your CPU will be very busy "counting" pulses from your wheel (when you're cornering this becomes noticeable - the number of pulses send to the gameport is directly related with the angle of your wheel). While iot is counting these pulses it can't do any calcultations for your sim (a.w. sending 30-36 fps to your display adapter): Voila the hickup! A possible solution might be to add an digital gameport (PDPI L4). Regards, Jan.

On Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:30:59 +0100, "Mark Seery" >>Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I >>decided to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: [...stuff about Direct X dumped...] Heck if I know. Nope. My startup folder is empty. Yes, I tried that, although with a smaller swap file. I'll put that in my list of things to try. Thanx for the input. -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

On Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:08:09 -0500, "Rick Miller"

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>> Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I >> decided to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: >>Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's >> always ask for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers >>first & then upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? >>Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 >itself AFTER installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the >> proper sequence? >> PII 450 128 MB RAM >> SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) >> Win98 ( ugh ) >To actually answer your original question. I usually put all the drivers in >before Dx 6.1. If you don't all you have to do is install Dx 6.1 again >after you install the latest driver.

Understood. That's what I did on my latest attempt at installing Diamond VooDoo II's. Windows ***ed about not finding them ( even though they were in Device Manager ). Then, I borrowed a freinds' STB VooDoo II's. After installing the drivers, my display properties sheet had *2* applets for them! Windows now complained that my display properties ( desk.cpl ) was broken. Sheesh. Indeed. In one of my installs, I tried those. Worked quite well without having Glide 2.53 installed. Still got the "hiccups" though. *sigh* Sure. Thanx for the info. -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

On Fri, 04 Jun 1999 12:35:03 +0200, Jan Hovius

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>>Having become frustrated with very short, graphic "hiccups" in GPL, I decided >>to re-install Win98 from scratch. Here's my questions: >>Win98 starts out with Direct X 5 installed. My Diamond VooDoo II's always ask >>for Direct X 5 drivers. Shoud I install the Direct X 5 drivers first & then >>upgrade to Direct X 6 drivers? >>Also, Diamond's read.me states that one should install Direct X 6 itself AFTER >>installing the Diamond drivers. Is this considered to be the proper sequence? >>PII 450 128 MB RAM >>SB Live ( Liveware 1.0 ) >>Win98 ( ugh ) >First of all: If you use Glide than the Direct X stuff has nothing to do with it >(anymore). since you experience this hickup in both scenarios (in Glide and DirectX >mode) I think the problem is not related to the graphics card (and/or drivers at >all).

OK. My driver / Direct X theory is just that...theory...:-) Hmm. Hadn't considered that. I'm using the SB Live gameport. I've read & agree that it works quite well. Perhaps it's the culprit? Couple of issues here. First, is the SB Live gameport digital or analog? Secondly, I've had these "hiccups" while driving straight. As a matter of fact, I had a "hiccup" recently going *very* slow, straight down the back straight at Monza after spinning out. Is the game port still busy while poking along like this? I'll certainly consider it. *Anything* to get back to racing...:-) BTW, I'm using a Thrustmaster Nascar Sprint calibrated as a Nascar Pro. ( Just to add to the confusion ). Thanx. -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

> [SNIPPED] > I've had these "hiccups" while driving straight. As a matter > of fact, I had a "hiccup" recently going *very* slow, straight down > the back straight at Monza after spinning out. Is the game port still > busy while poking along like this? Don't forget that the accelerator and brake also need to be processed by the gameport! I don't know which position gives the least pulses - is it with the steering wheel in the middle, or full left, or full right? Similarly, with combined throttle/brake is it with neither pedal pressed, or full braking or full accelerating, and similarly what happens with split axis? The world is full of mystery... Windoze doubly so! ;-) [Even the BBC Micro had an on-board A-D converter to read analogue joystick inputs!]

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>> [SNIPPED] >> I've had these "hiccups" while driving straight. As a matter >> of fact, I had a "hiccup" recently going *very* slow, straight down >> the back straight at Monza after spinning out. Is the game port still >> busy while poking along like this? >Don't forget that the accelerator and brake also need to be processed by >the gameport!

Yeah but with a PII 450, I'd think the CPU could handle it without "hiccuping". I wonder why it only happens rarely? You're asking me?.....Bwahahahahah I'm running a split axis setup. What happens is...never mind. Windows is the BLACK HOLE of OS Mystery. Hey Papy...can't we get GPL to run in DOS? Opps. Forgot. There's that bit with the SB Live. BBC Micro? -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

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> >> [SNIPPED] > >> I've had these "hiccups" while driving straight. As a matter > >> of fact, I had a "hiccup" recently going *very* slow, straight down > >> the back straight at Monza after spinning out. Is the game port still > >> busy while poking along like this? > >Don't forget that the accelerator and brake also need to be processed by > >the gameport! > Yeah but with a PII 450, I'd think the CPU could handle it without > "hiccuping". I wonder why it only happens rarely? > >I don't know which position gives the least pulses - is it with the > >steering wheel in the middle, or full left, or full right? > You're asking me?.....Bwahahahahah > >Similarly, with combined throttle/brake is it with neither pedal > >pressed, or full braking or full accelerating, and similarly what > >happens with split axis? > I'm running a split axis setup. What happens is...never mind. > >The world is full of mystery... Windoze doubly so! ;-) > Windows is the BLACK HOLE of OS Mystery. > Hey Papy...can't we get GPL to run in DOS? Opps. Forgot. There's that > bit with the SB Live. > >[Even the BBC Micro had an on-board A-D converter to read analogue > >joystick inputs!] > BBC Micro?

Ah. This was the machine Acorn produced in 1980 (or was it '81?) in the UK for the British Broadcasting Corporation's drive to educate the populace on the benefits of computers. Historically interesting for this ng because it was the machine that Geoff Crammond cut his teeth on (I know this because I worked for Acornsoft when he wrote his first game (Super Invaders) for us). He then did his first racing simulator (Revs) for the BBC Micro, which was *way* ahead of its time in terms of realism (remember Pole Position?). I still have my faithful Beeb (and Revs) in a cupboard somewhere at home... Would be fun to compare it with GPL sometime! ;-) PS: Geoff is not in fact God but he is a very nice chap anyway :-)

>>>> I've had these "hiccups" while driving straight. [...] [...] I'm still not convinced. This damn Windows... Super Invaders. Gotta love that name. Sure. I still have a copy of it somewhere. I wonder why it is we save this stuff. I just found an old copy of Indy 500. Wonder how it would run on the PII. Yikes. Heh. Looks like I'll have to find the Indy 500 manual. IIRC, I'll need some kind of password to fire it up. Page 20, line 3? He's NOT God? Next thing you'll tell me, Gates in NOT the Devil.

Windows is the worlds most complex and expensive Adventure Game. Scott Adams would be proud! -Larry > Windows is the BLACK HOLE of OS Mystery.

That depends on your perspective:) He is a brilliant programmer, at the least. -Larry > PS: Geoff is not in fact God but he is a very nice chap anyway :-)

> > PS: Geoff is not in fact God but he is a very nice chap anyway :-) > That depends on your perspective:) > He is a brilliant programmer, at the least. Of course - all the programmers at Acornsoft were brilliant! ;-) Elite started life at Acornsoft as well...

>> Windows is the BLACK HOLE of OS Mystery. >Windows is the worlds most complex and expensive Adventure Game. Scott >Adams would be proud! Indeed. Reminds me of the last Adventure Game I played. That hideous thing called 7th Guest. I got to some ridiculous puzzle with spiders & spent a LONG time trying to figure it out. Eventually, solved it by deleting the game from my system. Sort of like my current mess with GPL. I've deleted all traces of Thrustmaster gear. Awaiting the arrival of a PDPI L4. No racing for at least a week. Yikes. -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

You know it could be the sound card! I used to run with an ACM Game Card and never had a "hiccup", as you describe it. When I recently upgraded to the SB Live! Value I also switched to the Gameport and now get the little graphics hiccups or skips. Other than that I notice no differnce in operation between the ACM and the SB Live! Wierd. Mike **** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****

>You know it could be the sound card! I used to run with an >ACM Game Card and never had a "hiccup", as you describe >it. When I recently upgraded to the SB Live! Value I also >switched to the Gameport and now get the little graphics >hiccups or skips. Other than that I notice no differnce in >operation between the ACM and the SB Live! Funny you should mention the ACM. I had an old one handy, so I installed it in the new PII. Same deal. "Hiccups". Ripped the thing out & ordered a new PDPI L4. If this doesn't solve the problem, I don't know what to do. I got my hardware people to install another Asus motherboard, swapped everything else at least once, tried drivers like crazy, etc. Man o man. Wasting all this time with hardware when there's RACING to do...:-( I've got another word for it...:-) Thanx for the input. -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -