Best soundcard for GPL? SB Live Value or MX300

Hi guys, I know this has been asked a lot but which sound card would be best for GPL? I have an old SB16 right now and I think a new soundcard would be the cheapest way to speed up GPL. I think it's one of these two cards that I should get: SB Live Value or Diamond Monster Sound MX300. The normal SB Live is too expensive. So here's a few questions: What is missing from the Live Value because it's so much cheaper compared to the normal SB Live? Anything important considering GPL and other games? Which is better for GPL? MX300 or Live Value? The joystick port is really important as well bcause I don't have a separate gamecard. I don't play other games very much right now but it would be nice if the card would work well with most of the games. How much would a new soundcard speed up GPL compared to my old SB16? That's all I can think of right now. Oh, one more thing. I have: P-2 / 333 (oc'd to 350) Abit BH6 64MB RAM Monster 2 12MB Big thanks for the responses and cya at the track! :) -- Greger Huttu

And one more thing. My wheel is TM Formula 1 Racing Wheel aka Nascar Pro. -- Greger Huttu

Well one other item to consider is the future Papyrus releases. The next Nascar releases will not support EAX. But they will use A3d so the Diamond MX300 becomes more appetizing. dave henrie -- On May 17, 1999 A Whale was killed off the coast of Washington State. The Whale was killed in the name of Tradition.....I say.... %&#& Tradition! >Hi guys, I know this has been asked a lot but which sound card would >be best for GPL?

> And one more thing. My wheel is TM Formula 1 Racing Wheel aka Nascar > Pro. > -- > Greger Huttu The regular Live is more for musicians etc.... if you goto Alison Hines' reader FAQ you'll find out more about the live. I've read that the SB live uses less CPU power than the MX 300. I've got a Live and it's great. L8R .

I only can comment on the SB Live! Value, don't know anything about the MX300....keep that in mind. Some digital device to connect a MIDI syntheziser to create music or something. Nothing for games, I guess. Can't compare... In my case the gameport of the SBL!V was a lot smoother then the previous port I had. That was a Yamaha OPL based SB16 compatible soundcard, onboard of an Intel Mobo. I can now select all 16 soundchannels, compared to 4 before. Keep in mind that I upgraded My opinion, you will see much more improvement from SB16 to one of these cards, then the difference between them. Remco

If I am reading you correclty? You are saying that Papyrus will release a sim or game that will not support SB Live? If this what you're saying I really doubt it! Where did you get this information? Papy has always leaned there designs to Rend products.. Please Inform Thom_j. > Well one other item to consider is the future Papyrus releases. The next

Quoted text (13 lines)

> Nascar releases will not support EAX. But they will use A3d so the > Diamond MX300 becomes more appetizing. > dave henrie > -- > On May 17, 1999 A Whale was killed off the coast of > Washington State. The Whale was killed in the name of > Tradition.....I say.... > %&#& Tradition! > >Hi guys, I know this has been asked a lot but which sound card would > >be best for GPL?

It's been stated that upcoming releases will support A3D2.0 and DirectSound3D. A SBLive! will work just fine with DirectSound3D for positional audio, but you'll likely get slightly performance and perhaps additional features using A3D2.0 (reflections, occlusions, etc.) on a Vortex2 based card. Eric

% It's been stated that upcoming releases will support A3D2.0 and % DirectSound3D. A SBLive! will work just fine with DirectSound3D for % positional audio, but you'll likely get slightly performance and % perhaps additional features using A3D2.0 (reflections, occlusions, % etc.) on a Vortex2 based card. Hmmmmmm.... Looking at the market and what soundcards major PC vendors are offering, I would think that Creative Labs still has the edge over other cards. I mean when Compaq even offers an SBLive card for their machines, Papy should keep that in mind. Let's not get saddled with Rendition only support for full features again. (Not to know the Rendition support, but it was rather limiting.) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>My opinion, you will see much more improvement from SB16 to one of >these cards, then the difference between them. Are the SB Live cards PCI or old-style PC bus? I don't have any free PCI slots. Joe

Considering that both Live and MX300 support DirectSound3D and that the upcoming product will support DirectSound3D, you are fine either way. However, because the Aureal cards, like the MX300, offer additional support (such as Live does with its EAX) for more advanced features...its nice to see them being utilized.

Keep in mind that some of the additional features of A3D2.0 (most notably its real time geometrical model for reflections and occlusions) currently can not be done through EAX and its statistical model reverb environments. Eric

Is GPL 1.1 going to have support for A3D? Sorry if I'm a little behind on this one. That would be great! David L. Cook

Quoted text (20 lines)

> Keep in mind that some of the additional features of A3D2.0 (most > notably its real time geometrical model for reflections and > occlusions) currently can not be done through EAX and its statistical > model reverb environments. > Eric > > Hmmmmmm.... Looking at the market and what soundcards major PC > vendors > > are offering, I would think that Creative Labs still has the edge > over > > other cards. I mean when Compaq even offers an SBLive card for > their > > machines, Papy should keep that in mind. Let's not get saddled with > > Rendition only support for full features again. (Not to know the > > Rendition support, but it was rather limiting.)

>>My opinion, you will see much more improvement from SB16 to one of >>these cards, then the difference between them. >Are the SB Live cards PCI or old-style PC bus? I don't have any free >PCI slots. PCI Remco

No. Eric

Thank you for the info Eric! I didn't think "papy" would not use & consider an SB Live card! Cheers Thom_j.

Quoted text (18 lines)

> It's been stated that upcoming releases will support A3D2.0 and > DirectSound3D. A SBLive! will work just fine with DirectSound3D for > positional audio, but you'll likely get slightly performance and > perhaps additional features using A3D2.0 (reflections, occlusions, > etc.) on a Vortex2 based card. > Eric > > If I am reading you correclty? You are saying that Papyrus will > release > > a sim or game that will not support SB Live? If this what you're > saying > > I really doubt it! Where did you get this information? Papy has > always > > leaned there designs to Rend products.. Please Inform

> I only can comment on the SB Live! Value, don't know anything about snip Ook gij, Brutus...... I am running at or around 36 fps in most situations already. Will a SBLive speed things up even more? (SB 16 ISA now) I use headphones when racing or ridding the skies of enemy WW2 planes. Will a SBLive increase my audio quality? Cheers Dolle Dolf Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I got a Live Value, and the only thing missing from the full Live is a daughtercard, that adds some digital inputs / outputs and other things, that would be useful for some musicians I guess, but has NO effect on games. For games and 4 speaker support and all, it's the exact same card. I have the same wheel (NASCAR Pro), and in GPL I had the jumpy / jerky wheel syndrome, with my previous Turtle Beach Montego soundcard or a TM gamecard. With the Live's joystick port, it's butter smooth. I've had no problems with any controllers using the Live gameport, and my GPL framerate seemed to improve some to boot. And it sounds very nice with the 4 speakers hooked up too. -- Ken's Sig 3.0 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com >And one more thing. My wheel is TM Formula 1 Racing Wheel aka Nascar >Pro. >-- >Greger Huttu

another difference is that the value has normal metal sockets on the card for the speakers etc, the full live has gold plugs whcih in theory reduce resistance and produce better sound quality, ive never noticed this as ive not used a sbvalue with my speaker setup to compare the two (aiwa das stereo and shitty rear channel) if anyonbes intereted ive got the full live! kit, i got sent the wrong one when i ordered the value- im not complaining, 52.33 for a live!!!!!!! you also get a full copy of cubasis with the live which i have never felt like using. a question if anyone wants to help me with it, is a spdif conection for a dat player exactly the same as the optical link used to connect a minidisc player to your stereo for digital recording? Rubinio

you wont see any increase above 36 fps in gpl but you will be able to increase textures slightly, increase sounds as well without loss of fps. you will find some incraese in sound quality but its better wiyth 4 speakers as the sound comes from all around, even though gpl doesnt suport eax or a3d the untrained ear wouldnt know rubinio

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > I only can comment on the SB Live! Value, don't know anything about > snip > Ook gij, Brutus...... > > My opinion, you will see much more improvement from SB16 to one of > > these cards, then the difference between them. > > Remco > I am running at or around 36 fps in most situations already. Will a SBLive > speed things up even more? (SB 16 ISA now) I use headphones when racing

or

Quoted text (9 lines)

> ridding the skies of enemy WW2 planes. Will a SBLive increase my audio > quality? > Cheers > Dolle Dolf > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

On Sat, 29 May 1999 09:04:24 +0100, "JAY B" >a question if anyone wants to help me with it, is a spdif conection for a >dat player exactly the same as the optical link used to connect a minidisc >player to your stereo for digital recording? No. The optical link uses a fiber optic type of connection. The SPDIF (Sony Philips Digital Interface Format) connector on the Soundblaster Live uses a normal wired connection. To confuse matters: The optical link on your MiniDisc player may actually use (support) the SPDIF format but the physical connection is optical not wired. Both connection types in question are digital and for the PC sound card application have almost identical results in regards to sound quality. -Gary P.S. Of course, I could be wrong. :)

They are AGP with gold contacts and tungsten carbide clamps. Very nice. But the Value version only has ISA with tin contacts and plastic clamps :((

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >My opinion, you will see much more improvement from SB16 to one of > >these cards, then the difference between them. > Are the SB Live cards PCI or old-style PC bus? I don't have any free > PCI slots. > Joe

The difference with the latest drivers is less than 2%. WIth the original drivers it was closer to 15%. EAX......MX300 does it as good as the SB Live A3D......MX300 Does it but the SB Live NEVER will so that makes the choice easy. MX300 all the way!

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > And one more thing. My wheel is TM Formula 1 Racing Wheel aka Nascar > > Pro. > > -- > > Greger Huttu > The regular Live is more for musicians etc.... > if you goto Alison Hines' reader FAQ you'll find out more about the > live. I've read that the SB live uses less CPU power than the MX 300. > I've got a Live and it's great. > L8R .

EAX support may not be supported on many future releases. A3D is the superior technology and there is enough difference between the API's to make programming both a chore so many companies will have to choose netween one or the other. EAX for the numbers or A3D for the superior sound.

Quoted text (24 lines)

> If I am reading you correclty? You are saying that Papyrus will release > a sim or game that will not support SB Live? If this what you're saying > I really doubt it! Where did you get this information? Papy has always > leaned there designs to Rend products.. Please Inform > Thom_j. > > Well one other item to consider is the future Papyrus releases. The > next > > Nascar releases will not support EAX. But they will use A3d so the > > Diamond MX300 becomes more appetizing. > > dave henrie > > -- > > On May 17, 1999 A Whale was killed off the coast of > > Washington State. The Whale was killed in the name of > > Tradition.....I say.... > > %&#& Tradition! > > >Hi guys, I know this has been asked a lot but which sound card would > > >be best for GPL?

I just hope the release version of the upcoming v4.06.2030 Vortex2 reference drivers work with GPL. The pre-release v4.06.2030 drivers sure don't (at least for me they don't). I had to go back to the older v4.06.2015 reference drivers for GPL to run without locking-up. I still highly recommend the MX300 though, and it's true that the pre-release drivers do lower CPU utilization by a very substantial margin. If you're a gamer, the MX300 is a no-brainer in my opinion. - EZ

Quoted text (29 lines)

> The difference with the latest drivers is less than 2%. WIth the original > drivers it was closer to 15%. > EAX......MX300 does it as good as the SB Live > A3D......MX300 Does it but the SB Live NEVER will so that makes the choice > easy. MX300 all the way! > > > And one more thing. My wheel is TM Formula 1 Racing Wheel aka Nascar > > > Pro. > > > -- > > > Greger Huttu > > The regular Live is more for musicians etc.... > > if you goto Alison Hines' reader FAQ you'll find out more about the > > live. I've read that the SB live uses less CPU power than the MX 300. > > I've got a Live and it's great. > > L8R .

> They are AGP with gold contacts and tungsten carbide clamps. Very >nice. But the Value version only has ISA with tin contacts and plastic >clamps :(( ISA? You're sure about that? It would surprise me. Remco

> They are AGP with gold contacts and tungsten carbide clamps. Very >nice. But the Value version only has ISA with tin contacts and plastic >clamps :(( erm? I own a Value, and it's PCI. Personally, I had the choice between the MX300 and the SB Live, I chose the live...well...because I got a better deal on it. :) Comdex deal, 100 bucks for the Value and a 4 point speaker system with subwoofer. hehe Golgo

Hook, line and sinker!

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > They are AGP with gold contacts and tungsten carbide clamps. Very > >nice. But the Value version only has ISA with tin contacts and plastic > >clamps :(( > erm? I own a Value, and it's PCI. > Personally, I had the choice between the MX300 and the SB Live, I chose the > live...well...because I got a better deal on it. :) > Comdex deal, 100 bucks for the Value and a 4 point speaker system with > subwoofer. > hehe > Golgo

I resent that. Rendition is much better than all the other stupid APIs. But enough about that, Papy sims should support Rendition Rredline, 3DFX glide, D3D, OpenGl, EAX, and A3D.

>>Let's not get saddled with >>Rendition only support for full features again. (Not to know the >>Rendition support, but it was rather limiting.) >I resent that. Rendition is much better than all the other stupid APIs. So, Rendition is a stupid one (you said "other"). Why is it "much better"? Facts please. And in tasking resources to that, they must either pull resources off other things, like extra features, or further delay release. The latter costs money. Everything is a tradeoff. To continue to support a near-extinct (except in this ng) API and card doesn't seem logical from a business point of view. Further, if it wasn't for Papyrus' support of Rredline, probably most of you would have already replaced this card. Holding on to this legacy card has and will limit your performance in other non-Rredline sims. All it does is keep your short-term costs down (no small issue for many of you I realize). My conclusion: if no other developer of the games you and I like supports Rendition, Papy is probably doing you a long-term favor by dropping support, forcing you to get with the program and buy a TNT or future all-in-one 3dfx card (V2's will sooner or later be obsolete and performance-limiting).

AHH That's heracy. Just be warned!! Go get your TNT's.u Go get your 3dfx's. Go get what other 3d card out there. Just be warned that when rendition releases their next generation card, many of you will jump back on board the rendition bandwagon, just like you did with 3dfx and TNT. Just be warned. And just be warned that I have no idea of what I'm talking about. And drink beer.

Surely you mean Guiness!

Quoted text (26 lines)

> >nd in tasking resources to that, they must either pull resources off other > >things, like extra features, or further delay release. The latter costs > >money. Everything is a tradeoff. To continue to support a near-extinct > >(except in this ng) API and card doesn't seem logical from a business point > >of > >view. > >Further, if it wasn't for Papyrus' support of Rredline, probably most of you > >would have already replaced this card. Holding on to this legacy card has > >and > >will limit your performance in other non-Rredline sims. All it does is keep > >your short-term costs down (no small issue for many of you I realize). My > >conclusion: if no other developer of the games you and I like supports > >Rendition, Papy is probably doing you a long-term favor by dropping support, > >forcing you to get with the program and buy a TNT or future all-in-one 3dfx > >card (V2's will sooner or later be obsolete and performance-limiting). > AHH > That's heracy. Just be warned!! Go get your TNT's.u Go get your 3dfx's. Go > get what other 3d card out there. Just be warned that when rendition releases > their next generation card, many of you will jump back on board the rendition > bandwagon, just like you did with 3dfx and TNT. Just be warned. > And just be warned that I have no idea of what I'm talking about. And drink > beer.