Logitech Wingman Formula Force OR Thrustmaster Formula Force GT ?

I want to replace my good old Thrustmaster GP1 by a racingwheel that supports FF. I've choosen 2 FF-wheels, the Logitech and the Thrustmaster, but I only want to buy one racingwheel... I know some things about both wheels, the Logitech pedals are weak (maybe a bit stronger springs may help...) and the Thrustmaster can breakdown after only a few hours of use...but the forces are stronger. Can anyone of you share some experiences with these FF-wheels? It can help me to decide which wheel I'm going to buy. I use my wheel most of the time with MonacoGP, GPL and ToCa2. I wait for some response in this newsgroup :-)) Greetings from Holland, Wolter Meeske

Hello Wolter. I was using a Thrustmaster T2 until 2 days ago when I made the switch to a Logitech Wingman Formula Force. Your right about the springs. They are way too weak. And the travel of the pedal is too short. Its difficult (impossible) to find the point when the wheels are about to lock up . (I'm only using GPL) Logitech needs to modify these pedals. ( anyone at Logi reading this ? ) But the wheel itself is a marvel. Its very precise and comfortable , the gear shift paddles are big and easy to reach and the buttons are also easy to reach. I will see today if I can convert the pedals of my old T2 , which have more travel and better feel, and use them with the wheel of the Logitech and I will let you know. =:-D Robert Hull, Qubec

Yes the pedals on the Logitech are difficult but not impossible. I've had mine for 6 months and race successfully in two online leagues. It does take time to get used to them but it can be done. The wheel more than makes up for any deficiency in the pedals. -- Trevor Wilson, Ottawa, Canada

Hello Wolter, I use the Logitech wheel. Put some stronger springs in it, and it works great!!! I have heart that you can change the degrees of you wheel.... I can't see the point of it so I don't change that. Greatings also from Holland :-))) -- Groetjes Kees

Don't forget everyone, If you like your present pedals you can use them in GPL along with your FF wheel, just keep them plugged into the gameport. GPL will let you use any combination in the Direct Calibration. I think the Logitech FF Wheel is the finest out. Also when 1.1 comes out, be careful using the centering adjustment for FF. If you set it too high it will mask the FF. That goes for any FF game. I owned a TM Force GT for 3 days. It fell apart inside. I've had the Logitech FF since 12/98 and it's still like new with daily use. Bob > Yes the pedals on the Logitech are difficult but not impossible. I've had > mine for 6 months and race successfully in two online leagues. It does take > time to get used to them but it can be done. The wheel more than makes up

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> for any deficiency in the pedals. > -- > Trevor Wilson, Ottawa, Canada > > Hello Wolter. > > I was using a Thrustmaster T2 until 2 days ago when I made the

switch to a > > Logitech Wingman Formula Force. > > Your right about the springs. They are way too weak. And the travel of > the > > pedal is too short. Its difficult (impossible) to find the point when the > > wheels are about to lock up . (I'm only using GPL) Logitech needs to > modify > > these pedals. ( anyone at Logi reading this ? ) > > But the wheel itself is a marvel. Its very precise and comfortable , the > > gear shift paddles are big and easy to reach and the buttons are also easy > > to reach. > > I will see today if I can convert the pedals of my old T2 , which have > more > > travel and better feel, and use them with the wheel of the Logitech and I > > will let you know. > > =:-D > > Robert > > Hull, Qubec

Did you do anything to the springs, like install stiffer ones ? If so, where did you buy them ? Thanks.

Thanks for the tip Bob. I will try that. Robert

Yes I installed a new brake spring. Got it at Canadian Tire. Just take the one from the pedals in with you and buy something close you can always cut it to the right length. -- Trevor Wilson

My buddy and I each purchased the Thrustmaster Force GT wheel and managed to break them within a week or so. Not doing anything rough, just driving. I even had my FF set to about 50%. I tried contacting Thrustmaster about the problem and got no where. I would recommend staying away from the Force GT. I will say though, that the FF is pretty good and NFS3 and SCGT are really fun with the wheel. My biggest complaint before the wheel actually broke was it's nochiness (I hope that's a real word) and it made kind of a cracking or popping noise when you turned hard to the left. The wheel was really smooth at first then got rough. Needless to say I replaced the wheel. I almost bought the Logitec wheel, but went with the Act Labs Force RS instead. The wheel is not as sporty looking as the Logitec, but it is made really well. It is extremely smooth and the FF is great. Just my two cents! Take care. Rob Miller

>I've choosen 2 FF-wheels, the Logitech and the Thrustmaster, but I only want >to buy one racingwheel... Isn't the Force GT the one that Randy Cassidy reported having horrendous CPU drag? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Joe

>>I've choosen 2 FF-wheels, the Logitech and the Thrustmaster, but I only want >>to buy one racingwheel... >Isn't the Force GT the one that Randy Cassidy reported having >horrendous CPU drag? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Yep. You are correct. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

That should not be an issue with GPL. We turn off the auto-centering feature when you've enabled force feedback. Randy

On Mon, 24 May 1999 15:16:21 GMT, "Randy Cassidy" Isn't the auto-centering (and strength of FF effects) for the MS FF Wheel controlled ONLY by the MS software ?

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>:> Also when 1.1 comes out, be careful using the centering adjustment >:for >:> FF. If you set it too high it will mask the FF. That goes for any >:FF >:> game. >: >:That should not be an issue with GPL. We turn off the auto-centering >:feature when you've enabled force feedback. >: >:Randy

G. Patricks

Randy, Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. In the Game Controllers under: Logitech FF wheel; settings, there is an "Enable Centering Spring in Force Feedback Games" section, which is for FF programs which turn off auto-centering. While this is an individual preference, If you still want auto centering and this setting is too high, it will mask the more sensitive FF inputs. It can also be used with non FF programs. I use it now w/ 1.0 to have the wheel center itself. Hope that's a better explanation. Bob

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> > Also when 1.1 comes out, be careful using the centering adjustment > for > > FF. If you set it too high it will mask the FF. That goes for any > FF > > game. > That should not be an issue with GPL. We turn off the auto-centering > feature when you've enabled force feedback. > Randy

From what I understand of the Logitech drivers, they automatically disable auto centering when the game issues its first force command, under the assumption that this is what the application writer really intended, but has probably simply forgotten to do. My guess is that the checkbox you refer to simply disables this _automatic_ disabling (ahem :-) of the auto centering. We _explicitly_ tell the device to disable auto centering. I sure hope they're not turning it back on behind our backs. That wouldn't be very neighborly. I can't test this out - I don't see the checkbox to which you refer. Randy

Yes, I didn't know how to say it that eloquently. :-) At the time of the initial drivers, 3.12 I think, this was not a "feature". On the forums where the then new breed of FF wheels were being discussed, many users asked for this. 3.20 beta drivers incorporated this due to the user feedback with the caveat that this may not be a good thing and to use this checkbox with care, if at all. I use it in GPL ver. 1.0 because it gives my wheel some center, and I like that. I fully intend to disable it with ver. 1.1 Please understand, I'm not associated with Logitech. I just wanted to warn new users of this wheel to be careful of this option. When anyone sees this checkbox it's only natural to want to use it. (-: BY the way, do you happen to know when ver. 1.1 will be out? :-) Bob

>On Mon, 24 May 1999 15:16:21 GMT, "Randy Cassidy" >Isn't the auto-centering (and strength of FF effects) for the MS FF >Wheel controlled ONLY by the MS software ? I believe so. And using too high a setting in F1RS with the MS FF wheel was definitely no good. After a few laps you would loose all spring and FF tension. I remember I had to lower the overall spring strength to 25%. Then the FF in F1RS was awesome. You felt the wheel loosen up as it lost grip every single time. The Logitech wheel has this effect but not on every corner. It could be that I have the forces set too high and it is masking the effect. I would be curious to know that Control Panel settings others are using with their Logitech FF wheel. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>From what I understand of the Logitech drivers, they automatically >disable auto centering when the game issues its first force command, The new 3.2 beta drivers has a check box for Centering in FF games. And a slider for the centering strength. As far as I can tell the centering is always ON for non FF games with the new drivers. You should be able to disable it by moving the slider all the way to the left. Sounds reasonable. You need the latest 3.2 beta drivers from www.wingmanteam.com to get that box. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

On Mon, 24 May 1999 19:42:31 GMT, "Randy Cassidy"

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>From what I understand of the Logitech drivers, they automatically >disable auto centering when the game issues its first force command, >under the assumption that this is what the application writer really >intended, but has probably simply forgotten to do. My guess is that >the checkbox you refer to simply disables this _automatic_ disabling >(ahem :-) of the auto centering. We _explicitly_ tell the device to >disable auto centering.

Ahhhhhhhhh Randy! You mean I'm gonna lose my autocentering on my Logitech Wingman Formula Force playing GPL when your new patch comes out? Ahhhhh! It'd be nice if you made it an option inside the game. Oh well I guess you know best but seems like it'd sure be nice to have. Seems it would also be more realistic.