OT New Indy F1 Circuit Observations

A good friend and I drove down to the Indianapolis Speedway last Friday to see and hear the IRL cars for the first time and to scope out the under-construction F1 track. Our initial impressions were: grateful that the USGP will only be about 140 miles from home; the track ain't no Spa. This was not surprising news after reading the announcement and seeing the track map but the grouping of the corners in the infield section was really surprising. There appear to be two good straights that might be useful for overtaking: the main road down the center (Tony Hulman Blvd I think) of the speedway and the reverse drive down the front straight into T1(actually just before the oval's T4). Both turns are relatively tight and will be heavy braking zones. The rest of the track looks like a go-kart facility only scaled up a little. We walked all the paved sections and were really unimpressed with the tightness of the turns and the lack of any straightway linking them. It looks like they made darn sure that the precious golf course wasn't infringed upon. If you've ever driven at one of the Malibu Grand Prix centers in the US, you would be right at home through most of this track. They did leave a couple of trees in the center of a few turns that I'm sure will be fine with a couple of hay bales placed in front (guess I'm living in 1967). It is truely sad to think that with several really good road courses in this country that F1 has to move to this excuse when it returns to the U.S. For the best drivers in the world with the greatest technology, the track pales in comparison. I don' t think any chicanes will have to be added in the near future :) I will be curious to hear what the F1 pilotes have to say about it. I'm sure Jacques will be less than impressed after having driven the oval. After listening to the IRL cars echo off the grandstands, I will definitely be looking for an upgrade of earplugs for the 17000 rpm wail.

Better yet. F1 at Elhart Lake. Chris

> >Can you imagine F1 at Road Atlanta? :) > Better yet. F1 at Elhart Lake. > Chris Laguna Seca.JM

Well, those were the three that I was thinking of ... Jeff

I'll have to go with Elkhart Lake, Vanna. But wait! The U.S. GP could be there, the American (North) GP could be at Laguna Seca, and the Western GP could be at Road Atlanta! Okay, I got that figgered out. Mikey (Now just to figure out how to get Bernie's job) the Slowpoke

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|>> >Can you imagine F1 at Road Atlanta? :) |>> |>> Better yet. F1 at Elhart Lake. |>> |>> Chris |> |>Laguna Seca.JM |> |Well, those were the three that I was thinking of ... | |Jeff

And the FIA would ruin them all.

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> >> >Can you imagine F1 at Road Atlanta? :) > >> Better yet. F1 at Elhart Lake. > >> Chris > >Laguna Seca.JM > Well, those were the three that I was thinking of ... > Jeff

I am an avid Cart and F1 follower and while i was heartened to hear that F1 was to return to the US, I fail to understand why they didn't use an exisiting facility such as Road America with appropriate upgrades to the surface and safety facilities.....Not only would the course have been far better, but finally a way to compare Indy and F1 drivers on the same circuit. Timster

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> On Sun, 23 May 1999 20:32:07 GMT, > >It is truely sad > >to think that with several really good road courses in this country > >that F1 has to move to this excuse when it returns to the U.S. > AMEN. > Can you imagine F1 at Road Atlanta? :) > -- > // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

it all comes down to dollars $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4

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>A good friend and I drove down to the Indianapolis Speedway last >Friday to see and hear the IRL cars for the first time and to scope >out the under-construction F1 track. Our initial impressions were: >grateful that the USGP will only be about 140 miles from home; the >track ain't no Spa. This was not surprising news after reading the >announcement and seeing the track map but the grouping of the corners >in the infield section was really surprising. There appear to be two >good straights that might be useful for overtaking: the main road down >the center (Tony Hulman Blvd I think) of the speedway and the reverse >drive down the front straight into T1(actually just before the oval's >T4). Both turns are relatively tight and will be heavy braking zones. >The rest of the track looks like a go-kart facility only scaled up a >little. We walked all the paved sections and were really unimpressed >with the tightness of the turns and the lack of any straightway >linking them. It looks like they made darn sure that the precious golf >course wasn't infringed upon. If you've ever driven at one of the >Malibu Grand Prix centers in the US, you would be right at home >through most of this track. They did leave a couple of trees in the >center of a few turns that I'm sure will be fine with a couple of hay >bales placed in front (guess I'm living in 1967). It is truely sad >to think that with several really good road courses in this country >that F1 has to move to this excuse when it returns to the U.S. For the >best drivers in the world with the greatest technology, the track >pales in comparison. I don' t think any chicanes will have to be >added in the near future :) > I will be curious to hear what the F1 pilotes have to say about it. >I'm sure Jacques will be less than impressed after having driven the >oval. After listening to the IRL cars echo off the grandstands, I >will definitely be looking for an upgrade of earplugs for the 17000 >rpm wail.

Given that two of the biggest factors for a great track are hilly terrain (Spa, old Nurburgring, Laguna Seca, Elkhart Lake etc. etc.) and a large overall area, Indy has neither. Its a shame that all new tracks seem to break both these rules. It will be a very bland track. Loads of room for all the haulage trucks and Bernie's trailer though. - Michael

But... Can you imagine what Max Mosley and his crew would do to the track? -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "Sorry, my eyes were on screensaver" (Calvin & Hobbes)

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>> I will be curious to hear what the F1 pilotes have to say about it. >> I'm sure Jacques will be less than impressed after having driven the >> oval. After listening to the IRL cars echo off the grandstands, I >> will definitely be looking for an upgrade of earplugs for the 17000 >> rpm wail. >Given that two of the biggest factors for a great track are hilly terrain >(Spa, old Nurburgring, Laguna Seca, Elkhart Lake etc. etc.) and a large >overall area, Indy has neither. Its a shame that all new tracks seem to >break both these rules. >It will be a very bland track. Loads of room for all the haulage trucks >and Bernie's trailer though. >- Michael

Michael, FWIW, the upcoming Indy F1 track is the virtually the same length as the overall average of all the current F1 venues, and although hilly terrain makes for some great racing, the PR materials I've received (yeah, I know -- PR material's all put together by spin doctors, but they've got to at least get the facts straight) indicate that the current trend among the majority of current F1 tracks is for little or no actual elevation changes. Historic F1 courses featured more hills and terrain than current F1 tracks, but safety issues associated with hills and turns and such cause track designers to think twice before putting a blind turn right after the crest of a hill -- and the drivers also appreciate this forethought, I would imagine. The Indy F1 track is shaping up nicely, and while it may lack terrain and hills, it does feature some awesome turn/ess/switchback/hairpin combinations. I believe that the Indy venue will be to F1 what 1.5 mile high-banked ovals are to NASCAR's oval track racing -- THE ultimate place to view the most on-track action for your money. From what is now the current Northwest Vista stands at Indy, you'll be able to see no fewer than seven (7) corners, with corner 1 coming at the end of the fastest section of the track (the cars will be doing better than 180 mph after coming through the short chute between the existing track's turns 1 and 2, sweeping through what is now turn 1, and then traveling northward down the Indy oval's front stretch (acrosss the yard of bricks in the wrong direction!). The infield holes of the Brickard Crossing golf course will provide a beautiful backdrop for a majority of the curvy track sections, so scenerey won't be lacking. Watch for this to be one spectacular track. I just hope they ultimately bring sports cars to race on the new road course -- I'd love to see a 24- or 12-hours of Indy sports car endurance event in my hometown! Then, of course, all that would remain would be for somebody to do the Indy road course for SCGT, and I'd be a happy guy! <G> -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

Exactly, it's the main reason why *every* modern track is bland and uninteresting compared to the great historic F1 tracks. As for safety issues, warning light systems could easily compensate. Err - a golf course as a backdrop? Hardly Laguna Seca or Watkins Glen! Of course, if the race was going to be at Indy, they should have just staged it on the oval. Now that would have sorted the men from the boys! - Michael

I guess we see things through different eyes. What action to you expect to see watching a parade of cars around the one-after-another infield turns? Awesome? Are you kidding? Have you visited a real road circuit? Your obvious bias for anything Tony George is showing here. I will attend since it is my only option to see the cars but I will also be thinking of what might have been.

In a way many of us have already "driven" the Indy track, through the various GP" versions available for download. My impressions, based on this highly unscientific method, are that the track is terrible. Yes, there will be two passing opportunities at the end of the straights, but the corners joining those together are awful - slow, no rhythm, dull. Bor-ring Stephen : A good friend and I drove down to the Indianapolis Speedway last : Friday to see and hear the IRL cars for the first time and to scope : out the under-construction F1 track. Our initial impressions were: : grateful that the USGP will only be about 140 miles from home; the : track ain't no Spa. This was not surprising news after reading the : announcement and seeing the track map but the grouping of the corners : in the infield section was really surprising. There appear to be two : good straights that might be useful for overtaking: the main road down : the center (Tony Hulman Blvd I think) of the speedway and the reverse etc

Yes.........definitely.....Probably the best location in the US for a GP. Fast and challenging. I drove on several "oval conversions' back in my younger days and none were very good. The old infield course at the Milwaukee Mile comes to mind. They did use the back straight, turns 2 and 1, and the front straight so there was some opportunity to pass there. The infield portion was basically a couple series of "S" turns and very short chutes and then back to the oval. A dedicated course such as Road America would be a great venue for F1. I guess that money talks, and there is probably much more of that at Indy than in Elkhart Lake....... Ed