There have been several posts making reference to gpl relatively poor
commercial sales. I was under the impression that it sold quite well. Does
anyone have concrete information one way or the other?
Joel Willstein
Notable threadHow well did Grand Prix Legends actually sell?
Joel Willstein asked for real GPL sales figures. Posters cited a Sierra tech-support contact who said US sales were poor, and later Michael Carver reported that fewer than 40,000 copies had sold against hopes of three times that, which was blamed for the abandoned GPL-engine NASCAR 3. Wolfgang Preier and others argued that GPL's hardware demands came from its detailed physics rather than poor coding, and ymenard showed how low settings could run it on modest PCs.
Automated summary.
On Wed, 19 May 1999 10:38:29 -0400, "Joel Willstein"
> There have been several posts making reference to gpl relatively poor
>commercial sales. I was under the impression that it sold quite well. Does
>anyone have concrete information one way or the other?
>Joel Willstein
I had thought so too.
It seems that Ultimate PC and PC Gamer thought so too!
Griffin, the Slayer
I would have thought that it's sold pretty well, since we have other retro
games coming out like "Spirit of Speed 1939" and even that 50's option
tossed into "Monaco Grand Prix". If GPL was a flop, would these other
companies have tried a similar "oldies" theme?
On Thu, 20 May 1999 23:26:05 -0400, "Gault"
My point exactly.
Quoted text (8 lines)
>> There have been several posts making reference to gpl relatively poor >> commercial sales. I was under the impression that it sold quite well. Does >> anyone have concrete information one way or the other? >I would have thought that it's sold pretty well, since we have other retro >games coming out like "Spirit of Speed 1939" and even that 50's option >tossed into "Monaco Grand Prix". If GPL was a flop, would these other >companies have tried a similar "oldies" theme?lol. That was my first thought, as well!
Mikey the Slowpoke
technical
==----------
| http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
|------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Quoted text (8 lines)
| | |>>They seldom get any calls or mails |> on GPL, ICR, ICR 2, or Viper while they get TONS on NASCAR, NASCAR2, |> and NASCAR 1999. | |Maybe NASCAR fans are just less able to solve their problems withoutQuoted text (8 lines)
|assistance... | |~daxe (who enjoys NASCAR) | | | | | -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet NewsQuoted text (16 lines)
>On Thu, 20 May 1999 23:26:05 -0400, "Gault" >>> There have been several posts making reference to gpl relatively poor >>> commercial sales. I was under the impression that it sold quite well. Does >>> anyone have concrete information one way or the other? >>I would have thought that it's sold pretty well, since we have other retro >>games coming out like "Spirit of Speed 1939" and even that 50's option >>tossed into "Monaco Grand Prix". If GPL was a flop, would these other >>companies have tried a similar "oldies" theme? >My point exactly.Maybe NASCAR fans are just less able to solve their problems without technical
assistance...
~daxe (who enjoys NASCAR)
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
% There have been several posts making reference to gpl relatively poor
% commercial sales. I was under the impression that it sold quite well. Does
% anyone have concrete information one way or the other?
I understand that under 40,000 copies of GPL sold. Papyrus had hoped
for at least 3x's that amount.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>There have been several posts making reference to gpl relatively poor
>>commercial sales. I was under the impression that it sold quite well.
>>Does anyone have concrete information one way or the other?
>I understand that under 40,000 copies of GPL sold. Papyrus had hoped
>for at least 3x's that amount.
40,000 copies of GPL? That still qualifies officially as "a shitload"
for me. Where the hell is everyone? I've certainly not seen that many
folks on SpyBoy... :-)
--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html
Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting)
http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html
Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2
http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html
North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition
http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html
Super X Philes
http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html
If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================
Don't worry Papyrus, GPL doesn't sell a million copies in 3 months but it
will keep selling and selling until something better comes along and I think
that will take a considerable time.A game like GPL should be around for a
long time. Also I don't think many racing entusiasts have really discovered
this masterpiece yet.
>% There have been several posts making reference to gpl relatively poor
>% commercial sales. I was under the impression that it sold quite well. Does
Quoted text (10 lines)
>% anyone have concrete information one way or the other? >I understand that under 40,000 copies of GPL sold. Papyrus had hoped >for at least 3x's that amount. >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=DUH!!!
No Shit Sherlock! What hole have you been living in? JEEZ!! ENUF ALREADY!!!
Coot
That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what a failure the GPL
project was. It flopped so badly that they were forced to s***the "big
picture" plan which was to use the same engine for a Summer '99 release of
NASCAR 3.
The powers that be concluded that GPL failed because it was too difficult.
They completely overlooked the fact that the reason most people didn't buy
it (Americans anyway) is they don't even know what Formula One is. Michael
Schumacher is not a household name here, Jim Clark is a complete unknown.
Gran Prix "Legends" is an oxymoron in the United States.
A great example of how bad their marketing was is that the only F1 driver
with a "name" in the U.S. is Jackie Stewert, and he isn't even in the game!
If they had titled it "Jackie Stewart Racing" it would have sold better than
it did.
Rikanthrax wrote
Actually, it should be selling pretty well right now since you can find
GPL from a bargain bin in almost any part of the world, even here in
Finland. Another question is, whether this has any effect on sales
statistics anymore because it's prolly just retailers clearing their
shelves so those games are already included in the figures. Sierra is
still selling GPL for $49.95 in their online store.
It's clear that GPL was not a sales disaster but it wasn't a blazing
success either. And we love it for the very same reasons which hindered
it from becoming a huge mass market success.
Maybe Hans has more truth in his words than any of us would be willing to
admit: "...that will take a considerable time." Indeed. If it's true that
the sales figures of GPL were clearly lower than the publisher had hoped
for (as has been implied earlier in this thread), how encouraged will the
developers be to come up with anything on par with GPL in the future?
Otoh, we've heard from developers of Rally Championship and more lately,
Dirt Track Racing, that even with these kinds of games, the devs have
taken a long and hard look at GPL before setting their goals, since GPL
did set a standard in racing sims. But naturally they're trying to sell
as many copies as possible and GPL may also have proved that an
uncompromising simulation may not be the best way to achieve those sales
figures.
So will we see anything in the near future that would meet the
expectations of a *** simmer after GPL? I doubt it. It's the
beginning of the year 2 aGPL and I have a feeling that we'll be waiting
for the second coming for quite a while. I hope I'm wrong but I can't
help feeling a bit pessimistic.
---
Antti Markus Peteri
15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away
- Soul Asylum, Promises Broken
Don't worry Papyrus, GPL doesn't sell a million copies in 3 months but it
will keep selling and selling
WRONG.
I just got my 1st 3dfx card, figgured id try the gpl demo. loved it. looked
for it.
no one carries it-went to 7 stores.
the sales clerk at Electronics Botique said they dont stock it. No one else had
ever heard of it.
BTW- 40,000 copies is PATHETIC.
This game was a worldwide release.
Do you realize they are nowhere near breaking even on gpl? At wholesale prices,
Papyrus must be getting killed on this one.
Rik Anthrax
Let's be realistic about GPL.
Ofcourse we all adore it, but for 99% of the average *** public it's
too hard to keep your car on the track, and even harder to go for really
fast times.
And that's not the worst (since it can be edited:).
The thing I do NOT like about papy's way of approaching games like these
is the very steep sys. req.
And not only that, but 36fps mac is pathetic! It's easy to know your max
will often drop in certain situation (lots of cars, smoke, dirt, etc).
That means (and that's the whole point) that going down from 36fps is
always clearly to notice, and THUS distracting for such a serious and
intersesting sim.
I REFUSE to upgrade anymore for games. LOTS of developers provve that
there's much speed to be found with the average equipment people have.
I also think changes at gfx is mostly a marketing startegy, so one can
clearly show the difference in shots (and so in adds). Hardley any game
dev. maxes out his old engine, and so never tries to solve bugs or add
'forgotten' things.
Not having rain in a racing sim is a bit silly too. Just like Micrp.
ruined GP2, Sierra will probably have asked Papy to hurry and forget
about some things.
That's why you get 40.000
Bart
--
I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park anywhere
near the place.
> That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what a failure the GPL
> project was. It flopped so badly that they were forced to s***the "big
> picture" plan which was to use the same engine for a Summer '99 release of
> NASCAR 3.
> The powers that be concluded that GPL failed because it was too difficult.
> They completely overlooked the fact that the reason most people didn't buy
> it (Americans anyway) is they don't even know what Formula One is. Michael
> Schumacher is not a household name here, Jim Clark is a complete unknown.
> Gran Prix "Legends" is an oxymoron in the United States.
> A great example of how bad their marketing was is that the only F1 driver
> with a "name" in the U.S. is Jackie Stewert, and he isn't even in the game!
> If they had titled it "Jackie Stewart Racing" it would have sold better than
> it did.
> Rikanthrax wrote
> >BTW- 40,000 copies is PATHETIC.
> >This game was a worldwide release.
> >Do you realize they are nowhere near breaking even on gpl? At wholesale
> prices,
> >Papyrus must be getting killed on this one.
Quoted text (10 lines)
> Let's be realistic about GPL. > Ofcourse we all adore it, but for 99% of the average *** public it's > too hard to keep your car on the track, and even harder to go for really > fast times. > And that's not the worst (since it can be edited:). > The thing I do NOT like about papy's way of approaching games like these > is the very steep sys. req.I usually look for it when I'm in a software store. Why? I don't
know. I already own a copy, but I look anyway. I haven't seen it
for several months now. Not even at the good stores who carry
everything under the sun. Not even on the shelves next to Nascar2
and CART2.
-Chris-
---Two wheels are better
---Proud owner of a 1998 ZX-9R
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
"Bart-W. van Lith" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>Let's be realistic about GPL.
With pleasure.
>Ofcourse we all adore it, but for 99% of the average gaming public it's
>too hard to keep your car on the track, and even harder to go for really
>fast times.
Right.
>And that's not the worst (since it can be edited:).
>The thing I do NOT like about papy's way of approaching games like these
>is the very steep sys. req.
I know this argument is getting old, but the reason for the steep
hardware requirements of GPL is *not* poor coding, but the incredibly
detailed, realistic physics engine. And before someone says again "How
do you know that it's realistic? Have you ever driven a real
racecar... yaddaydadda" please consider this: a year after the sim was
released, people are still finding new and better approaches to
setting up the cars. Unlike with previous sims, where you could find
successful attempts like "no damping and hard springs at the rear end
work best" (which is totally unrealistic), those novel attempts all
come from people who use this approach: "This setup change would do
this-and-that to a real car. I try it in GPL, and it does the same!"
To me, this sounds like an incredibly realistic simulation by the
physics engine. And such an engine will use CPU horsepower.
>And not only that, but 36fps mac is pathetic! It's easy to know your max
>will often drop in certain situation (lots of cars, smoke, dirt, etc).
>That means (and that's the whole point) that going down from 36fps is
>always clearly to notice, and THUS distracting for such a serious and
>intersesting sim.
I think you got this backwards, Bart. Limiting the max framerate to 36
fps means more stable performance on faster machines. Compare a
Celeron 333 to a PIII 550 in GPL as you would compare a 2.5l 4cyl
Diesel engine to a 4l 6cyl Otto engine: Both give about the same
performance in everyday use as long as you stay below 4500 rpm
(assuming identical torque in this power band.) But in emergency
situations, you can rev the 4l to 6000 rpm (and maintain the 36 fps)
whereas the 2.5l Diesel will hit the limiter (and framerates will
drop). The 4l has reserves that can be mobilized when needed.
OTOH, you could remove the 36 fps limit. To stay within the metaphor,
this would mean racing both engines to the red line all the time. The
4l could show off its better performance, but now even this engine
would see the rev limiter quite often. What is better, smoother:
stable 36 fps or max 50 fps with occasional drops to the high 30s? I
would go for stable 36 fps.
Actually, I would have preferred an adjustable fps limiter (say, 25
fps for low end computers like the one I used to have.) As it seems,
there is a connection between the sampling rate of the physics engine
and the - only seemingly arbitrary - max frame rate of 36 fps which
prevents this.
>I REFUSE to upgrade anymore for games. LOTS of developers provve that
>there's much speed to be found with the average equipment people have.
I said this myself before, but have since seen the error in my ways.
:) The reason so many current games work nicely on 'old' PII 300s is
that hardware development was extremely fast during the last 12
months.
Coding a new game takes between one (best case) and four (worst case)
years. At the beginning of the development cycle, the designers have
more or less to determine the kind of hardware their game has to run
on when released. The designers tend to aim low in this guess for two
reasons: firstly, they want to cater to a base of installed machines
which is as wide as possible. The lower the common denominator, the
better the potential sales from that angle. Second, the game will
always be a bit slower than intended and require better hardware than
anticipated.
A year ago, I had a correspondence with some people who were coding a
3D railroad sim. I advised them to aim for the equivalent of a P200
with 64MB of RAM and a 3D card (meaning the likes of the Voodoo1 or
Riva 128). My argument was that every serious gamer would have such a
machine by the summer of 1999, which was the earliest possible release
date I could anticipate (they're still at it :) Their reply was that
they would rather design the game with a 166, 32MB and no 3D card in
mind and that I was too generous in my assumptions. :) Well, I erred
indeed, but in the other direction.
GPL is an exception insofar as the physics engine will not run
acceptably on slower machines. It was not first and foremost designed
to meet certain hardware requirements, but to set a new standard in
realism.
New games right now were designed to run barely on a P200MMX and
therefore run very nicely on the actual low-end entry-level computers
of today (400 MHz Celeron and AMD K6-2, last time I looked. Might have
changed since this morning, though. :) But this will change again with
the next generation of games, which will make full use of the hardware
support current today. By then, we will have to upgrade again to play
them - and we will do it, I'm sure. :)
>I also think changes at gfx is mostly a marketing startegy, so one can
>clearly show the difference in shots (and so in adds). Hardley any game
>dev. maxes out his old engine, and so never tries to solve bugs or add
>'forgotten' things.
This is true and deplorable, but few things will harm sales more than
a review which says "it's a nice game, but the max resolution of
800x600 is outdated and the graphics look old." Moreover, if you
release a game which is reviewed as "basically the same as its
predecessor, with a few improvements and bug fixes", few people will
buy it and most customers will (legitimately) yell "This is only a
patch! Why should I pay for it?" (Unless they're trained Microsoft
customers, in which case they will gladly pay full price for a few
minor tweaks... )
>Not having rain in a racing sim is a bit silly too. Just like Micrp.
>ruined GP2, Sierra will probably have asked Papy to hurry and forget
>about some things.
I disagree strongly. Rain is one aspect of a sim that is very
difficult to do right and very easy to leave out. What good are
current implementations of rain? When was the last time you saw a real
race that started in heavy rain, was driven during heavy rain and
ended in heavy rain? Was it an exciting race?
Does a sim exist which models things like this?:
- The race is started in the dry but with overcast skies. The
metereological service predicts a 60% chance for rain within
the next two hours.
- It starts drizzling during lap 10 but you can't be sure if you
should change to rain tires. The track gets a bit slippery in some
places, but is still fine in others.
- You decide to stay out and, in lap 18, the real downpour begins. You
barely manage to bring your car back to the pits. Those of your (AI)
competitors who changed to wet tires before (and who you laughed at
for being such chickens) now have an advantage.
- In lap 40, just two laps prior to your next scheduled pit stop, the
rain ends. Slowly, the conditions get better. Should you switch to
slicks again? Already, some parts of the track dry off, but there
are puddles in other sections and everything off the groove is still
slippery as hell. And there's no guarantee the rain will not begin
again...
All sims with rains effects that I've seen so far had either "rain" or
"no rain", but nothing in between. What is the benefit of a mode in
which the sky is grey, you see less, and the cars are a bit harder to
drive? As long as nothing like the scenario described above is
possible, I can do without rain.
>That's why you get 40.000
I think you get bad sales figures if you make a sim
- with a steep learning curve and no (or very little)
concessions to the beginner or 'arcade' racer,
- about an era which only a few people can relate to,
- and advertise it with the wrong arguments.
If you don't want to make SCGT instead of GPL, there's little you can
do about the second point. But I believe GPL would have done much
better if it had had the following features:
- An arcade mode with double tire grip and a 'bumper' cam for
increased 'sense of speed'.
- A more flashy damage model: flying body (fuselage, I mean) parts,
ripped off engines, more fire, more havoc.
- An adjustable AI difficulty level which allows the bloody beginner
to win against Jim Clark after two hours of practising.
- A top ten (or better yet, top 50) list of hotlaps for every track.
- An advertizing scheme which focused on the difficulty of the sim
("If they are too fast, you are too *SLOW*!" "Separates the men from
the boys...") instead of highlighting gory aspects which simply
*are* *not* there in GPL's current incarnation ("In 1968, safety
regulations were introduced - welcome to 1967...")
*WE* could always turn off the driving aids and maintain that hotlaps
in arcade mode do not count. All of the above would hardly have taken
away anything of the enjoyment we get from *our* GPL, but would have
increased the sales tremendously.
In Egypt, there are several pyramids that change their angle halfway
to the top. They look pretty ugly. The reason for their ungainly
appearance is this: the architects of the pyramids strove for always
steeper and steeper angles - until one especially daring construct
collapsed. All other pyramids in construction were quickly changed to
a safer angle to avoid a similar fate. I'm afraid that GPL was "the
pyramid that wanted too much" of sims. All other manufacturers of
sims, and even Papyrus themselves, seem to have toned down their
physics models for future releases.
The theory that "the market is big enough for arcade games *and*
serious sims" has been defeated. To the next company seriously
attempting to create "the most realistic sim ever": please include a
good arcade mode *too*, or you will have to make your next product all
'arcade'.
--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
...
read more »
>>Let's be realistic about GPL.
>With pleasure.
Oh my gawd, how long this posting has become! I'm just in the process
of studying Puritan sermons for my exam next week, and must have
gotten carried away by their way of writing. Please excuse my
verbosity. :)
--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
You had very good points.... nice reading too :-D
Jason.
--
--------
Jason Monds
"My other car is a Ferrari"
http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl - For my combined gas/brake setups
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >>Let's be realistic about GPL. > >With pleasure. > Oh my gawd, how long this posting has become! I'm just in the process > of studying Puritan sermons for my exam next week, and must have > gotten carried away by their way of writing. Please excuse my > verbosity. :) > -- > Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.(Snip)
I'm just in the process
You're studying to become a Puritan minister!? COOL! But where does the
church stand on racing sims? Or even driving cars, for that matter?
Couldn't resist. Great luck on your exams!
Regards,
Kurt
The pyramid analogy was unexpected, but oh-so-appropriate.
Write as much as you want. :-)
Martin
Nigel Mansell RIP!
>(Snip)
>I'm just in the process
>>of studying Puritan sermons for my exam next week, and must have
>>gotten carried away by their way of writing.
>You're studying to become a Puritan minister!?
Not really. :)
I don't think the orthodox Puritans would have enjoyed racing very
much. They would have asked: "How does this help you on your way to
salvation and sanctification?" Could you answer this question in a
satisfactory manner? Thought so. :) Racing is fun, and those guys were
very wary of things that are obviously fun.
They would not have been opposed to cars in general, though. The
Puritans believed that wealth and success in commercial enterprises
were signs of being "elect". They would have had qualms to buy a
beautiful or flashy car, but I think a huge Mercedes S class in black
would have been a success among New England's saints of the 16th and
17th century. They might have removed the chrome and replaced the
seats by wooden benches, though. You see, I'm really studying this
stuff. :)
Thanks!
--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
I still do think that the mass market is stupid.
Celeron 266 in 800x600 at maximum framerate. It's simply impossible when
your talking about quality racing simulations, because the physics are too
complicated now to do such a thing and still have quality graphics.
They can't accept lowering graphics to accept that such games like GPL are
quality games, and that the physics alone is worth the price of what you
pay, not graphics.
I can race GPL at 36fps with a 4meg V1 and a Pentium 166 with 20AI. Yep Im
serious.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Please tell us how
Agreed... and about the pyramid. Didn't know that, despite a lot of
interest in the era. It's not every day you learn something new on
RAS... this is indeed a noteworthy day! ;-)
Andrew McP
Pretty easy !
Resolution : 512x384
(If I used my STB Velocity 128 4meg/OpenGL patch I could even go lower
IIRC).
Mirror Details : Cars
Trackside Objects : Few
Detail bias : full left 0%
No effects
Everything off ahead/mirrors
# of sound : 3
app.ini : sound quality =0
The normal gamer won't ever accept to do this, he's dumb since he wants
800x600+resolution with all the graphical effects, full mirrors and STILL
have 30+fps, and the whole physics of his car + the AI's cars. But another
time, GPL was not produced for those people.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Ok, there were 40,000 copies SOLD, but how many went back because their
computers were too slow, or because they couldn't DRIVE it? And out of those
that kept the game, how many have modems, and even KNOW about VROC ans GSB?
Eldred
__
Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (22 lines)
>>> I can race GPL at 36fps with a 4meg V1 and a Pentium 166 with 20AI. Yep >>> Im serious. >> Please tell us how >Pretty easy ! >Resolution : 512x384 >(If I used my STB Velocity 128 4meg/OpenGL patch I could even go lower >IIRC). >Mirror Details : Cars >Trackside Objects : Few >Detail bias : full left 0% >No effects >Everything off ahead/mirrors ># of sound : 3 >app.ini : sound quality =0 >The normal gamer won't ever accept to do this, he's dumb since he wants >800x600+resolution with all the graphical effects, full mirrors and STILL >have 30+fps, and the whole physics of his car + the AI's cars. But another >time, GPL was not produced for those people.And of those who do know about on-line racing, and have had success in
mastering the driving how many actually can't be bothered racing on-line?
(John
those
> that kept the game, how many have modems, and even KNOW about VROC ans GSB?
> Eldred
> __
> Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
> remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Quoted text (11 lines)
> Simmons) writes: > >>I understand that under 40,000 copies of GPL sold. Papyrus had hoped > >>for at least 3x's that amount. > >40,000 copies of GPL? That still qualifies officially as "a shitload" > >for me. Where the hell is everyone? I've certainly not seen that many > >folks on SpyBoy... :-) > Ok, there were 40,000 copies SOLD, but how many went back because their > computers were too slow, or because they couldn't DRIVE it? And out of-----Original Message-----
Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
Date: Friday, August 27, 1999 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: gpl sales figures
(John
those
>that kept the game, how many have modems, and even KNOW about VROC ans GSB?
>Eldred
Unfortunately,while you feel that 40,000 copies is "a shitload" of
sales,it isn't nearly enough to produce a gross profit to qualify GPL as a
commercial success. Since Sierra needed a sales figure in excess of 100,000
to turn a profit,they most likely lost their shirt on the project. And if a
company doesn't have a large enough gross profit to pay all the bills,they
go out of business. That's business 101.
As for your point about SpyBoy,I was there last night. At no time was
there more than a total of 50 racers there,with just about 50% in the chat
room. That figure is about as high as I've ever seen it,and I race there
about 5 nights per week. I wouldn't even classify VROC/SpyBoy as a great
success either. If it wasn't for Alison Hines passion for GPL and online
racing. We would all be racing off line.
Joel Willstein
Quoted text (11 lines)
>Simmons) writes: >>>I understand that under 40,000 copies of GPL sold. Papyrus had hoped >>>for at least 3x's that amount. >>40,000 copies of GPL? That still qualifies officially as "a shitload" >>for me. Where the hell is everyone? I've certainly not seen that many >>folks on SpyBoy... :-) >Ok, there were 40,000 copies SOLD, but how many went back because their >computers were too slow, or because they couldn't DRIVE it? And out ofQuoted text (13 lines)
>>Ok, there were 40,000 copies SOLD, but how many went back because their >>computers were too slow, or because they couldn't DRIVE it? And out of >those >>that kept the game, how many have modems, and even KNOW about VROC ans GSB? >>Eldred > Unfortunately,while you feel that 40,000 copies is "a shitload" of >sales,it isn't nearly enough to produce a gross profit to qualify GPL as a >commercial success. Since Sierra needed a sales figure in excess of 100,000 >to turn a profit,they most likely lost their shirt on the project. And if a >company doesn't have a large enough gross profit to pay all the bills,they >go out of business. That's business 101.> So, how do we get more people involved? I've even modified my .sig to attract
> people. What ELSE can we do?
> Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/VROC
A working url perhaps? GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/vroc
For some reason the server only accepts lower case.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Your .sig won't attract anyone yet, keep trying:
http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc might do it |o)
/Ron
Quoted text (12 lines)
>> So, how do we get more people involved? I've even modified my .sig >to attract >> people. What ELSE can we do? >> Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/VROC >A working url perhaps? GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/vroc >For some reason the server only accepts lower case. >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.>> Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/VROC
>A working url perhaps? GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/vroc
>For some reason the server only accepts lower case.
Oops, My bad.
<muttering>..stupid picky internet...grumble, grumble
Sorry about that<g>.
Eldred
__
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc
If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting?
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>Your .sig won't attract anyone yet, keep trying:
>http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc might do it |o)
Son of a....
Doh!
<MANY expletives deleted...>
Ok, it should work NOW...
Hey, I just type it into my browser, I never have to worry about the http
syntax...<sigh>
Eldred
__
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc
If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting?
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>Your .sig won't attract anyone yet, keep trying:
>http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc might do it |o)
>/Ron
Save even more bandwith using
http://www.vroc.net/
;-)
uwe
--
Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany (52.0N/8h30mE)
Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://bnetwork.com/
PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
