Now that GPL will have FF...what wheel?

Now that GPL will have FF, i guess i have to save up some cash to replace the ol' TM GP1. It's OK, since I've been dying to try Viper's FF since i got it months ago. Man, these companies just know how to separate me from my money! But the question is, which wheel? I'm a bit bewildered by all the options (well, mostly the USB vs. not- what are the relative advantages, etc.?) I've heard people say good things about Microsoft's FF wheel. I'd really like to stay on the good side of $150. I already have a set of CH pedals that I'm really happy with, so pedals aren't necessary (if they can still be used- anyone know anything about this?) thanks for your input... mark

See www.simracingnews.com for a review of three difference wheels; Logitech, Microsoft and Act Labs. Personally I have the Logitech and like it a lot although I do wish it had the optical pot of the Microsoft....perhaps I'll go buy a Microsoft one and hack them apart. :)

I am also considering a FF wheel. Right now I have a home built system with an analog clutch pedal. Do any FF wheels have a clutch pedal? Has anyone been able to add one? --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---

Not that I am aware of. However, ACT Labs setup allows them to add in new components, i.e. they now have available a H-pattern shifter to compliment their wheel. Perhaps they may also have a clutch at some point too if enough interest is shown. As to adding a clutch to an existing FF wheel....I'm not sure thats really possible. Opening up the Logitech that I owned to clean I looked over the wiring and its not setup to handle more than two pedal pots.

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> I am also considering a FF wheel. Right now I have a home built system > with an analog clutch pedal. > Do any FF wheels have a clutch pedal? > Has anyone been able to add one? > > Now that GPL will have FF, i guess i have to save up some cash to > replace > > the ol' TM GP1. It's OK, since I've been dying to try Viper's FF > since i > > got it months ago. Man, these companies just know how to separate me > from my > > money! > > But the question is, which wheel? > > I'm a bit bewildered by all the options (well, mostly the USB vs. not- > what > > are the relative advantages, etc.?) > > I've heard people say good things about Microsoft's FF wheel. > > I'd really like to stay on the good side of $150. I already have a set > of CH > > pedals that I'm really happy with, so pedals aren't necessary (if they > can > > still be used- anyone know anything about this?) > > thanks for your input... > > mark > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---

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>Not that I am aware of. However, ACT Labs setup allows them to add in new >components, i.e. they now have available a H-pattern shifter to compliment >their wheel. Perhaps they may also have a clutch at some point too if >enough interest is shown. >As to adding a clutch to an existing FF wheel....I'm not sure thats really >possible. Opening up the Logitech that I owned to clean I looked over the >wiring and its not setup to handle more than two pedal pots.

AFAIK all the FF worlds are digital i.e optical controllers. Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

As long as you can physically plug the controllers into the machine at the same time, I believe DirectInput will allow you to configure all of them at once. We will map all DirectInput controllers that are marked as "OK" in the control panel up to a maximum of 16 axes and 16 buttons. I routinely have one of the two following configurations set up... ...the Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel (game port/MIDI) and the Logitech WingMan Formula Force (serial), or ...a set of Thrustmaster T2 pedals with CH Products Flight Stick (game port) and Logitech WingMan Formula Force (serial) (I just can't find that darn USB->serial adapter :-) In fact, you can be out driving, hit F3 to bring up the Options screen, reassign steering to a different controller, and we'll switch the force feedback to the new steering device when you unpause the game. I doubt that many of y'all will use this feature, but it only took a few minutes to do, and it sure made my life easier :-) Randy

I don't think the CH pedals will work with the MSFF wheel. The connection from the MS pedals to the wheel base is a ps/2 style connector. I'm not sure if it is ps/2 or not, but that's what it looks like. The MSFF wheel is a great wheel as Richard said. It is optical, tough, comfortable, and has lots of FF. The profiler software that comes with it is fantastic. It allows you to set up profiles for different games. That means that for SCGT, you can have one profile where the axis is combined and one for GPL where you have split axes. You can also map buttons to key functions which is very useful in both GPL and other games. I have shift-r, look left, look right, F10, and raise arm mapped to buttons on the wheel. In short, the MSFF wheel is great. -- -/- Walk Walker Official HAL Backmarker

>AFAIK all the FF worlds are digital i.e optical controllers. >Z. bah! worlds- wheels 8) Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Z. Only the Microsoft and perhaps the Saitek are optical for at least the wheel axis, unsure about the brake/throttles. I know definetly that my Logitech uses a pot at the end of all three axis (wheel/brake/throttle) and since ACT wheel isn't based on the Microsoft internals I'd imagine its not optical either...the others I couldn't speak for. Hope this was a bit more informative than a simple "wrong".

Now, that is truly good controller support. :) I'm sure that Logitech would be more than willing to ship you one free of charge Randy. :) Cool. And hey, thanks for the information...its muchly appreciated. :)

Hi Mark, If keeping your CH pedals was not a factor, I would recommend the Logitech over all others that I have tried -- MS, Saitek, Interact V4 -- with a warning that some people find the Logitech pedals difficult. Since you are keeping your CH pedals, and you can combine them in GPL--without even rewiring--I strongly recommend the Logitech wheel over the MS wheel. As far as functions/programmability go, I <think> they are equal, but I found the Logitech wheel *way* better in terms of feel. I tried the MS wheel, and while it's darn good, I was turned off by the fact that it felt like light plastic in my hands. The Logitech has a much more sturdy and "heavy" feel, and it's completely coated with the (red!) grippy-*** stuff. The MS wheel only had grippy-*** on some parts of the wheel. The MS wheel used to have much stronger force, but the I find the Logitech very nice after a few patch revs, in which they beefed up the force. IMHO, after about 5 or 6 months of heavy use with the Logitech, the pedals are the *single* (and a very minor) complaint that I have. Good Luck! Brett

Randy...... WHEN? WHEN?? WHEN??/ I'm dying waiting for this. Tony

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> > ... I already have a set of CH > > pedals that I'm really happy with, so pedals aren't necessary (if > they can > > still be used- anyone know anything about this?) > As long as you can physically plug the controllers into the machine at > the same time, I believe DirectInput will allow you to configure all of > them at once. We will map all DirectInput controllers that are marked > as "OK" in the control panel up to a maximum of 16 axes and 16 buttons. > I routinely have one of the two following configurations set up... > ...the Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel (game port/MIDI) and the Logitech > WingMan Formula Force (serial), or > ...a set of Thrustmaster T2 pedals with CH Products Flight Stick (game > port) and Logitech WingMan Formula Force (serial) (I just can't find > that darn USB->serial adapter :-) > In fact, you can be out driving, hit F3 to bring up the Options screen, > reassign steering to a different controller, and we'll switch the force > feedback to the new steering device when you unpause the game. I > doubt that many of y'all will use this feature, but it only took a few > minutes to do, and it sure made my life easier :-) > Randy

>Only the Microsoft and perhaps the Saitek are optical for at least the wheel >axis, unsure about the brake/throttles. I know definetly that my Logitech >uses a pot at the end of all three axis (wheel/brake/throttle) ... The good news is that with a USB connection POTS work much better than through gameports. At least that's the case on my Logitech FF wheel - no jitters or calibration problems at all. Joe

Great. That's just great. I went round-and-round with myself over whether to get the Microsoft FF wheel or a TSW. I finally decided that I was willing to do without FF in Viper because GPL doesn't support FF and the TSW is a higher quality product. Now, after I dropped $450 on the TSW and three days after it arrives, I find out that the GPL patch will include... !!! >>>Force Feedback<<< !!! Jesus, I could have used this information six weeks ago! It's not that I dislike the TSW. On the contrary. It's a wonderful, wonderful, quality wheel and I am enjoying it tremendously. I can't afford both of them, though, and I would have bought the Microsoft wheel if I had known. Oh, well. Maybe in a couple of years when (if) GPL2 comes out I'll be able to afford a FF wheel... ----------------------------- -Chris- | Two wheels are better | |Proud owner of a 1998 ZX-9R| ----------------------------- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---

Just a quick note, the MS FF works as dual axis with the release version of SCGT, without any patches. Someone was asking about the rear paddles for shifting with SCGT, well all you have to do is map them to the keyboard commands ( I use the left and right arrows ) you can also put the other functions, lights horn etc onto the front buttons. Ian Parker ICQ 21772592

>IMHO, after about 5 or 6 months of heavy use with the Logitech, the >pedals are the *single* (and a very minor) complaint that I have. >Good Luck! >Brett Ah and I had the same feelings! But after reading over Randy's posts I finally found I can use the Logitech FF Wheel along with the CH pedals without any kind of re-wiring! Best of both Worlds thanks to the info from Randy! But I still aint seen no offical word that the upcoming GPL patch will have Force Fedback support! Sure hope it does though because I'm allready set-up!

On Thu, 13 May 1999 13:53:41 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >Z. >> AFAIK all the FF worlds are digital i.e optical controllers. >Only the Microsoft and perhaps the Saitek are optical for at least the wheel >axis, unsure about the brake/throttles. Saitek uses optical controllers for the wheel (it's in fact AFAIK the same hardware as in the Microsoft wheel) and IMO pots for the pedals (since I had bad jitters with my old pedal unit). Daniel -- UIN: 30333508 WWW: http://surf.to/danielshome || http://www.topofgames.de [personal HP] [german PC games magazine]

I bought the Logitech and love it. The reason, why not the MS FF: Due to their policy they only support their own games PROPERLY. MTM, Cart,.. all those GAMES I don't like. Jens <snip> <>snip --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

This is because they digitize the signal before sending over the bus. Jens >The good news is that with a USB connection POTS work much better than >through gameports. At least that's the case on my Logitech FF wheel - >no jitters or calibration problems at all. >Joe --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

> I bought the Logitech and love it. > The reason, why not the MS FF: > Due to their policy they only support their own games PROPERLY. > MTM, Cart,.. all those GAMES I don't like. Hmm, the FF in those two games is, well, not good. Try ViperRacing and you see, what the game developers can do with existing hardware. l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!