Decided to give SCGT a go because of all the good reviews it's gotten.
Generally I'm happy with it, but there are some annoying flaws in the
user interface that I hope are taken care of in a patch:
- Those buttons that don't show up unless you mouse is at the bottom
of the screen are rather stupid - at first I couldn't find the menus
to setup my graphics or controls!
- Why no "Restart Race" option when you hit escape?
- The AI drivers are a tad aggresive. I don't mean fast, but
aggresive. If they drove that way in real life there would be
***s on the track. Which leads to...
- Why the limitation that you can only cancel a race (without penalty)
in the first half of it? I just had to toss an entire season because
one AI driver knocked me off the road three times in one race. VERY
annoying.
Joe
>Decided to give SCGT a go because of all the good reviews it's gotten.
>Generally I'm happy with it, but there are some annoying flaws in the
>user interface that I hope are taken care of in a patch:
One more I remembered:
- It's a little hard to "finish" a race once the results are posted -
I have to hit escape several times before it will stop putting up the
"do you want to quit?" message and process the race results.
Again, these are "nits" - not major flaws in the game itself, which
I'm quite impressed with (it's much better than the demo). The driving
model is superb, the cars feel real, as if they have some weight to
them. If you can drive a car, you'll feel at home in this game
(something Papyrus would do well to remember - gameplay balance
matters, even in a sim).
The only major thing I'd like to see in a patch at some point is an
update to the somewhat poor force-feedback effects.
Joe
Never had this problem even the one time I finished 2nd.
But thats not exactly true. Just because you can drive a personal car does
NOT mean you can drive a 1967 Grand Prix car. Heck, just because you can
drive a 1999 Formula1 car doesn't necessarily mean you can drive a '67 GP
car really well. About time games started making it a challenge for people
and not just instant gratification.
It could be that the game is waiting for the other cars to finish the race
(they haven't crossed the finish line yet). Notice that if you finish well
and scroll down the results list (use the down arrow on your keyboard), you
will see the clock is still running for those cars still racing. Just a
possibility.
BTW, I couldn't agree more with you regarding the AI aggression (in your
other post). If the AI could only a little faster and less aggressive, I'd
be in heaven. Hopefully this can be done with some future editor.
Jim
>One more I remembered:
>- It's a little hard to "finish" a race once the results are posted -
>I have to hit escape several times before it will stop putting up the
>"do you want to quit?" message and process the race results.
I don't know for sure, but I think you simply need to wait for all of the
cars to finish.
--
| "Instead of letting the moon be the
Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let
Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our
>But thats not exactly true. Just because you can drive a personal car does
>NOT mean you can drive a 1967 Grand Prix car.
I agree. The thing is we all have "seat of the pants" experience in
personal cars. So when we drive a computer sim that acts like these
cars we can apply our real-world skills. The driving model may not be
realistic, but it FEELS realistic, and is eminently more learnable.
If I had some physical experience driving GP '67 cars, I suspect the
GPL driving model would feel spot on. I don't have the time learn a
whole new driving method *without* the benefit of that feel.
Joe
>It could be that the game is waiting for the other cars to finish the race
>(they haven't crossed the finish line yet).
Yes, I think that's correct, but even after they've finished there's a
delay. It's not a big deal.
I hear ya, there are times I long for the ability to import some
car-mounted weapons from Interstate 76! ;-)
Joe
A car is a car. Learning how to drive in GPL does increase your ability in
other not as realistic racing games, or so my experience has found. Hate to
say it, but GPL mimics my sportscar pretty well given the differences such
as frontwheel drive and much better tires, aero, etc. But the very basics
of the GPL engine handle just like I experience every day.
Of course, if your desire is to have a game that instantly winnable...hey,
thats great and nothing wrong with that, SCGT is your bag.
I just hit escape and then 'enter' and it goes away. It asks you if you want to
leave the race, but that doesn't mean you are abandoning the race, it means 'do
you want to go back to the config screens'. Don;t worry about it not
registering your finish. The second the view switches to the outside of the
car, just hit esc, then enter.
Or you could wait to see your trophy.
daxe
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>Of course, if your desire is to have a game that instantly winnable...
I'd actually prefer something in between. SCGT is maybe too easily
winnable. But GPL, for me, is too far in the other extreme. I don't
even care if I win, I just want to be able to keep up with the bulk of
the pack in multiplay races. But it takes a LOT of time just to get to
that level.
Joe
Some games get bad reviews if the learning curve is too hard. Some magazines
that scored GPL on its merits as a sim gave it high marks. Other
"respectable"magazines gave it medium level marks because it took too long to
master. The same has happened with Falcon 4.0.
Some games that appear to have complex strategies and a myriad options, like
Alpha Centauri, get incredibly high marks. Why I don't know when even Alpha can
be beaten on it highest difficulty setting by a semi competent player the first
time they play it.
There are very few games released that really have any challenge to them. There
is always a simple strategy that once learnt will undermine a games AI and
remove the challenge that may of existed. Most sport sims, including the
excellent ones form EA< sufer from this. With the Fifa games for instance,
there is always a set of moves that allow you to score goals with relatively
little effort.
Good car sims, like GPL, are the only real challenge left for hard core gamers
who want replay value from their purchase.
I will now get off my soap box and back to SCGT.....
Quoted text (15 lines)
> > - It's a little hard to "finish" a race once the results are posted - > > I have to hit escape several times before it will stop putting up the > > "do you want to quit?" message and process the race results. > Never had this problem even the one time I finished 2nd. > > If you can drive a car, you'll feel at home in this game > > (something Papyrus would do well to remember - gameplay balance > > matters, even in a sim). > But thats not exactly true. Just because you can drive a personal car does > NOT mean you can drive a 1967 Grand Prix car. Heck, just because you can > drive a 1999 Formula1 car doesn't necessarily mean you can drive a '67 GP > car really well. About time games started making it a challenge for people > and not just instant gratification.Yup. Sadly, this happens all the time. Although I do note that most
respectiable magazines and web sites tend to give the learning curve a too
short of time span. GPL/F4.0/LB2/688i/etc take more than 2 hours to master.
<shrugs> Personally most of the RTS games bore me simply because they
degenerate into horde tactics. How droll. Now, I remember a game by
Mindscape called the "Shadow of the Horned Rat" that was based off WarHammer
Fantasy and was excellent is its tactics and you had to use your cavalry
right, protect your archers and make use of specialized troops. Too bad it
never had a multiplayer options, oh well. :)
Yuppers, this is too true. Love the FIFA games, but once you uncover the
trick is pointless to even play with friends.
Yup...too many want easy gratification.
Heh, mine is about finished and ready to go on the shelf as soon as I win
the GT1 division.
You think the bulk of the pack didn't put in that type of time too? As with
anything, you only get out what you put into it. But nonetheless, a lot of
what makes GPL hard is the cars as much as the advanced physics. 67 GP cars
aren't easy to drive at all....modern day sports cars are much easier to
drive (although not as easy as in SCGT)
>You think the bulk of the pack didn't put in that type of time too?
Sure. All I'm saying is that Papyrus could have included a few more
gameplay balance OPTIONS, and there would be a lot more people playing
it, including people like me who don't have that much time to devote
to the game.
Joe
Why dilute such a fine sim? Gameplay is nicely balanced....for goodness
sakes you are competing against the very best the 1967 world had to offer in
terms of race car drivers!
But nonetheless, try the trainer and advanced trainer. They have less power
and a little easier physics (or so Eric Busch of Papy has said on the TEN
newsgroup).
> >You think the bulk of the pack didn't put in that type of time too?
> Sure. All I'm saying is that Papyrus could have included a few more
> gameplay balance OPTIONS, and there would be a lot more people playing
> it, including people like me who don't have that much time to devote
> to the game.
>Why dilute such a fine sim?
How can an OPTION dilute a sim? All that would happen is there would
be additional users.
I'm talking about competing against human players ... if there were
newbie accessability options (ala Nascar2) it would be easier to find
people at my own level.
I am in the process of trying it, thanks for the suggestion.
Joe
Ahh.....Shadow of the Horned Rat. One of the few games I have replayed after
finishing it. There is a second game in the series but I haven't had the
oppurtunity to play it.
