Grand Prix Legends questions

Hello, I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a 4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance (either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Michael Gilbert

Have you thought about a wheel with paddle shifters? That way you could shift with the paddles, and use the buttons on the wheel for gas and brake. Of course you would not use the gas brake peddles on the base. Theres nothing quite like shifting your own gears in GPL. I can't imagine playing it with the auto. It would take most of the fun out of it. >Hello, >I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a >4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic >shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I >cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and >out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the >automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during >a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the >gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably >make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. >I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance >(either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a >foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. >Michael Gilbert

Hey Mike, First, you may shift for yourself without using a clutch. Select manual shift, and assign a button for shift up and a button for shift down. You will have to lift of the gas a bit when up shifting, and you won't have to work a clutch to use it. Autoshift will slow you down, shift for yourself, it's easier than you think. Second, you really need some kind of axis to work gas and brake for GPL. I cant imagine driving with on/off gas and brake, If you can do a lap using buttons for gas and brake, then your a better driver than I. I had a Thrustmaster GP1 wheel, with the paddles behind the wheel. It worked well for months, till the wife got me a Nascar Pro. Anyway, if you had an axis for gas and brake, you could modulate the gas and brake and decrease your stopping distance, and power through turns easier than you could with buttons. >Hello, >I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a >4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic >shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I >cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and >out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the >automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during >a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the >gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably >make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. >I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance >(either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a >foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. >Michael Gilbert

If you can't use foot peddles you should think about getting a wheel with analogue paddles. I have a thrustmaster formula sprint and find the car is actually easier to control using the paddles than it is using the peddles. You get two paddles either side of the wheel, the same as those used for changing gear in a modern F1 car, but rather than just buttons they act as an analogue channel, giving you as much control as you want using one paddle for accellerator and one paddle for brake. Also the wheel has four buttons on the front, which do just fine for gear changing, with a couple spare for look right and left, or what ever takes your fancy. Hope this helps Phil >Hello, >I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a >4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic >shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I >cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and >out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the >automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during >a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the >gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably >make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. >I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance >(either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a >foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. >Michael Gilbert

If you do manage to find a way of using manual gears, you'll gain 2secs EVERYWHERE, i did, i slowly started to learn manual for each track, then got faster and faster, manual gears make a HUGE difference. -- Tim "Calm Down" Wheatley ________________________________________________ Tim Wheatley "Yellow menacing helmet in the mirror" http://start.at/igps_stats IGPS - Ferrari Challenge - UKGPL - Summer Cup Driver http://drive.to/grandprixlegends http://website.lineone.net/~nascar ________________________________________________ > Hello, > I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a > 4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic > shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I > cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and > out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the > automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during > a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the > gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably > make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. > I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance > (either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a > foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. > Michael Gilbert

Manual gear shifting makes a MASSIVE difference to times! -- Rob. >Have you thought about a wheel with paddle shifters? That way you could >shift with the paddles, and use the buttons on the wheel for gas and brake. >Of course you would not use the gas brake peddles on the base. Theres >nothing quite like shifting your own gears in GPL. I can't imagine playing >it with the auto. It would take most of the fun out of it. >>Hello, >>I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a >>4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use >automatic >>shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but >unfortunately I >>cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated >and >>out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to >adjust the >>automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much >during >>a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off >the >>gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could >probably >>make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. >>I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking >distance >>(either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of >a >>foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. >>Michael Gilbert

According to a post from Randy C., if you use a button for brake and throttle it is just the same as using brake help and throttle help. Since you can not modulate a button, GPL automatically uses the helps even if you do not have them checked in the options. Since the "helps" are designed so as to not give optimal performance, your times will suffer. Sorry, Randy

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>Hey Mike, >First, you may shift for yourself without using a clutch. Select manual >shift, and assign a button for shift up and a button for shift down. You >will have to lift of the gas a bit when up shifting, and you won't have to >work a clutch to use it. Autoshift will slow you down, shift for yourself, >it's easier than you think. >Second, you really need some kind of axis to work gas and brake for GPL. I >cant imagine driving with on/off gas and brake, If you can do a lap using >buttons for gas and brake, then your a better driver than I. >I had a Thrustmaster GP1 wheel, with the paddles behind the wheel. It >worked well for months, till the wife got me a Nascar Pro. Anyway, if you >had an axis for gas and brake, you could modulate the gas and brake and >decrease your stopping distance, and power through turns easier than you >could with buttons. >>Hello, >>I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a >>4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use >automatic >>shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but >unfortunately I >>cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated >and >>out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to >adjust the >>automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much >during >>a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off >the >>gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could >probably >>make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. >>I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking >distance >>(either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of >a >>foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. >>Michael Gilbert

To email me remove the "u"s

Hi could you MODERATE the brake and gas using the paddles ? just like you could with the peddles From some of the wheels I have seen, paddles feels like an on-off button with no in-between. | If you can't use foot peddles you should think about getting a wheel with | analogue paddles. | | I have a thrustmaster formula sprint and find the car is actually easier to | control using the paddles than it is using the peddles. | | You get two paddles either side of the wheel, the same as those used for | changing gear in a modern F1 car, but rather than just buttons they act as | an analogue channel, giving you as much control as you want using one paddle | for accellerator and one paddle for brake. | | Also the wheel has four buttons on the front, which do just fine for gear | changing, with a couple spare for look right and left, or what ever takes

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| your fancy. | | Hope this helps | | Phil | | >Hello, | > | >I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends.

Right now I'm using a | >4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use | automatic | >shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but | unfortunately I | >cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated | and | >out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to | adjust the | >automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much | during | >a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off | the | >gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could | probably | >make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. | > | >I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking | distance | >(either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of

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| a | >foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. | > | >Michael Gilbert | > | | |

Yes, with the TM sprint you get proper analogue control. Split axis for the gas/brake as well. Andy

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> Hi > could you MODERATE the brake and gas > using the paddles ? just like you could with the peddles > From some of the wheels I have seen, paddles feels like an > on-off > button with no in-between. > | If you can't use foot peddles you should think about > getting a wheel with > | analogue paddles. > | > | I have a thrustmaster formula sprint and find the car is > actually easier to > | control using the paddles than it is using the peddles. > | > | You get two paddles either side of the wheel, the same as > those used for > | changing gear in a modern F1 car, but rather than just > buttons they act as > | an analogue channel, giving you as much control as you > want using one paddle > | for accellerator and one paddle for brake. > | > | Also the wheel has four buttons on the front, which do > just fine for gear > | changing, with a couple spare for look right and left, or > what ever takes > | your fancy. > | > | Hope this helps > | > | Phil > | > | >Hello, > | > > | >I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. > Right now I'm using a > | >4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also > have to use > | automatic > | >shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with > pedals, but > | unfortunately I > | >cannot because of a disability. I am constantly > getting out-accelerated > | and > | >out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there > was any way to > | adjust the > | >automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off > the gas as much > | during > | >a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, > they barely let off > | the > | >gas, because they can use the clutch with manual > shifting. I could > | probably > | >make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a > shift. > | > > | >I was also wondering if there was a way for me to > decrease the braking > | distance > | >(either via setup or something else), even though I use > a button instead of > | a > | >foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. > | > > | >Michael Gilbert > | > > | > | > |

How do you get this implemented in the game? I still get only gas or brake at one time even if I press both.

The TM sprint altogether has 4 axes - one for steering, one for the left paddle, one for the right paddle, one for the pedals. I've configured with my PDPI gamecard as a [L4]Nascar Pro Split and with this setting (and possibly without this setting !) The 4 Sprint axes all show up separately in the GPL calibration window. You then assign them to the controls in the normal way. This certainly works for me - I can now use Gas + brake at appropriate times as a stabilising factor. I'm not going much faster than I was less of the scenery at close quarters ! Andy > >Yes, with the TM sprint you get proper analogue control. Split axis for > >the gas/brake as well. > How do you get this implemented in the game? I still get only gas or > brake at one time even if I press both.

Toni; You shouldnt! Press on the gas in neutral & then put it in 1st then press on the gas and brake. The gas rpms should go up but it will hold the rpms down a little until you let the brake go! If it does not happen something is set wrong in Gpl. Also you should have 3 axis in your calibrate in options. I use generic though! Cheers... Thom_j. > >Yes, with the TM sprint you get proper analogue control. Split axis for > >the gas/brake as well. > How do you get this implemented in the game? I still get only gas or > brake at one time even if I press both. no_spam.n2rif1.vcf < 1K Download

Hello, I can only assume that you may be limited to just one hand to play this game. If that is indeed the case, configure your joystick so the left/right axis is steering and the forward/backward axis is accelerate/brake. Without a graduated control for acceleration and braking you will always be out done in these areas. I have played GPL with such a configuration, and it takes an incredible amount of practice to become proficient, but it can be done, to the point of being on an equal footing with wheel/pedal drivers. The clutch is nothing to worry about, forget it, it really is only useful for starts, which you can master without a clutch, again, with much practice. To the best of my knowledge, NO drivers use the clutch when shifting gears. (Feedback on that is welcome) My final suggestion would be to purchase a joystick with a hat switch which you could assign to the shift up/down duties. This is a much simpler way of shifting gears than trying to keep track of two separate buttons. You will have to back off the gas with the joystick when shifting or you are sure to blow motors, even on the short races. The trick here is to do your shifting when the car is travelling in a straight line. Having to wrestle with the combination of easing back the joystick, turning a corner and hitting the proper shift buttons all at once will likely cause disaster. Once again, with practice you can be in the correct gear for the corner before you reach the corner, and all you'll have to worry about is acceleration and steering at that point. To the best of my knowledge there is no way to reduce braking distances via setup. I have found, however, while hot lapping, that with enough practice (again!) you can pick braking points for a given track where you simply lock up the wheels at the right place, release the brakes at the right place, and you slide through the corner just fine. While this works well when stiving for the ultimate hotlap, it may prove difficult to do consistently when racing. Hope all this babbling has been of some help. Best of luck, and remember, practice, practice, practice. Zog

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> Hello, > I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a > 4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic > shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I > cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and > out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the > automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during > a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the > gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably > make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. > I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance > (either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a > foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. > Michael Gilbert

-- Don't let the bastards grind you down. Doug Schneider Bedford, Nova Scotia Canada

^Fretts: Seems like you don't have split axis? Because it sure doesn't hold rpms down if you brake. That's what split axis is, you can give high rpms AND brake at the same time, they are not in the same axis. With split axis, you can brake fully, give rpms exactly as much as you like when you are in the starting grid. To test if you have split axis: Drive with 1st or 2nd gear in Monza, at main straight. Then press throttle as much as you can, then brake a bit more and more, so that your front wheels will lock. If you have split axis, then you can go forward with throttle, with power in your rear tires, but at the same time, you can keep your front tires still locked. Here's example of a start with split axis: Press brake full, press clutch, hit gear to 1st, press throttle to optimum revs, just before the start, stop pressing brake. Now only throttle and clutch are pressed. when you have green, just let clutch go and give just a bit more throttle. That's it. Lassila: You must select split axis from your windows first, before going to game. After that, the game will detect it and suggests calibration.

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>Toni; You shouldnt! Press on the gas in neutral & then put it in 1st >then press on the gas and brake. The gas rpms should go up but it >will hold the rpms down a little until you let the brake go! If it does >not happen something is set wrong in Gpl. Also you should have 3 >axis in your calibrate in options. I use generic though! >Cheers... Thom_j. >> >Yes, with the TM sprint you get proper analogue control. Split axis for >> >the gas/brake as well. >> How do you get this implemented in the game? I still get only gas or >> brake at one time even if I press both.

It works now. I suggest you see my post on fixing the TM Sprint axis problem. Don't use generic. By using the NASCAR Pro drivers you get accurate DirectX support for dual-axis paddles. It works!

Got it sorted out by swapping drivers, thanks anyway. Now to practice dual-axis starts in GPL and then to VROC =)

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> I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a > 4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic > shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I > cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and > out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the > automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during > a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the > gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably > make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. > I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance > (either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a > foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

The best way to use a joystick in a racing sim is to use the Y-axis (pushing forward and back) as the accelerator and brake and the X-axis (pushing left and right) as steering. This way you get analog control of your acceleration and braking which is crucial in a sim like GPL. This will also free up your buttons for use as shifters, which should also dramatically improve your control and lap times. Spend some time getting used to this and I'm sure your driving will greatly improve. Dave Ewing

Gotta agree with ya, Dave. Once you get used to it, it's not bad at all. I drove GP2 from the time it was released to the time GPL came out with guess what? A CH Flightstick. Got pretty respectable times there, as well. The only thing it doesn't allow by its very nature is dual-axis throt/brake control which is a whole lot less serious than using button control and auto trans. Even today, I am driving with my trusty son-of-Flightstick, but now with CH ProPedals for the brake and throttle. They didn't cost a fortune, and are serving me well (until I get my wheel). Later, Av/Mikey | |> I have a couple questions about Grand Prix Legends. Right now I'm using a |> 4-button joystick, 2 buttons for gas and brake. I also have to use automatic |> shifting. I wish I could use a steering wheel with pedals, but unfortunately I |> cannot because of a disability. I am constantly getting out-accelerated and |> out-braked in online races. I was wondering if there was any way to adjust the |> automatic shifting, so that the computer doesn't let off the gas as much during |> a shift. I have viewed replays of the fast drivers, they barely let off the |> gas, because they can use the clutch with manual shifting. I could probably |> make up some time if I could cut down the delay during a shift. |> |> I was also wondering if there was a way for me to decrease the braking distance |> (either via setup or something else), even though I use a button instead of a |> foot pedal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. | |The best way to use a joystick in a racing sim is to use the Y-axis (pushing forward |and back) as the accelerator and brake and the X-axis (pushing left and right) as |steering. This way you get analog control of your acceleration and braking which is |crucial in a sim like GPL. This will also free up your buttons for use as shifters, |which should also dramatically improve your control and lap times. Spend some time |getting used to this and I'm sure your driving will greatly improve. | |Dave Ewing | |

>Have you thought about a wheel with paddle shifters? That way you could >shift with the paddles, and use the buttons on the wheel for gas and brake. >Of course you would not use the gas brake peddles on the base. Theres >nothing quite like shifting your own gears in GPL. I can't imagine playing >it with the auto. It would take most of the fun out of it. Playing it WITHOUT auto takes the *control* out of it, for me. I never figured out how to wrestle the beast to stay on the track while downshifting 3 gears going into Parabolica... And Monza's the EASIEST track...! :( I wouldn't DARE try it at Someplace like Mosport... __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>If you do manage to find a way of using manual gears, you'll gain 2secs >EVERYWHERE, i did, i slowly started to learn manual for each track, then got >faster and faster, manual gears make a HUGE difference. 2 SECONDS?!? On *every* track? Great, I'll NEVER catch up... :) I'm still running auto. __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Odd?? I race all tracks with no help in GPL and no foot pedals. I use 2 buttons for shift-up/down & one for clutch & 2 paddles for gas/brake all while steering with only Two hands!! I ain't no hot'shoe but Monza is not hard to get down to at least 1:30.xx. You do it the same way you get to "Carnegie Hall.." Practice! Cheers... Thom _j. > Playing it WITHOUT auto takes the *control* out of it, for me. I never figured > out how to wrestle the beast to stay on the track while downshifting 3 gears > going into Parabolica... > And Monza's the EASIEST track...! :( I wouldn't DARE try it at Someplace like > Mosport...

I can't STAND the auto...darn thing won't let you drive it right. I started with the stick from day 1 (lets you recover from spins faster) and haven't looked back. -- Kirk Lane ICQ: 28171652 >>If you do manage to find a way of using manual gears, you'll gain 2secs >>EVERYWHERE, i did, i slowly started to learn manual for each track, then got >>faster and faster, manual gears make a HUGE difference. >2 SECONDS?!? On *every* track? Great, I'll NEVER catch up... :) I'm still >running auto. >__ >Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... >remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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>Odd?? I race all tracks with no help in GPL and no foot pedals. >I use 2 buttons for shift-up/down & one for clutch & 2 paddles >for gas/brake all while steering with only Two hands!! I ain't no >hot'shoe but Monza is not hard to get down to at least 1:30.xx. >You do it the same way you get to "Carnegie Hall.." Practice! >Cheers... Thom _j. >> Playing it WITHOUT auto takes the *control* out of it, for me. I never >figured >> out how to wrestle the beast to stay on the track while downshifting 3 >gears >> going into Parabolica... >> And Monza's the EASIEST track...! :( I wouldn't DARE try it at Someplace >like >> Mosport...

Well, maybe my T2 just doesn't give me enough control. I'm still using the default Eagle setup, and my fastest time is 1:32.04. Yesterday I tried a setup that someone sent me(I've been busy) and I couldn't complete TWO laps with it. The car is all over the track... :( It keeps 'wandering'(I think that's the term). It was like me trying to drive the Ferrari when I first GOT the game... :( I think I'll try to run a couple hundred laps before I go to class tonight. I see a problem with that, though. I have to brake in the same spots. If I go any deeper into the turn, I can't stay on the track. So logically, that means my times will never get faster, right? I'm at my limit? ARGH! __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> I think I'll try to run a couple hundred laps before I go to class tonight. I > see a problem with that, though. I have to brake in the same spots. If I go > any deeper into the turn, I can't stay on the track. So logically, that means > my times will never get faster, right? I'm at my limit? ARGH! No, fortunately for you this is quite wrong. It's a beginners' error to think that you go faster in GPL by braking later. I certainly made this mistake soon after I started practising seriously, and it retarded my development for a while. The most important thing to improve your lap times is to get on the power earlier on the exit from a corner. To do this, you must have the car balanced and the tyres hooked up (i.e. not sliding) in the middle of the corner. Thus it helps to enter a little slower, and therefore you will go faster if you brake *earlier*. GPL cars decelerate under braking *much* faster than they can accelerate. Thus spending a little more time decelerating loses much less than is gained by spending much more time accelerating, if that makes sense. It also helps to steer an expanding radius curve on exit from a corner (Taruffi's book explains this very well). This is possible if you use a slightly tighter and slower entry curve. Caveat: my GPL laptimes don't really qualify me to give advice like this, but I think you'll find the above is useful. Anton -- Antony Bowers, Department of Computer Science, University of Bristol, UK. http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~bowers/

>The most important thing to improve your lap times is to get on the power >earlier on the exit from a corner. To do this, you must have the car balanced >and the tyres hooked up (i.e. not sliding) in the middle of the corner. Thus >it helps to enter a little slower, and therefore you will go faster if you >brake >*earlier*. I already FEEL like I'm braking too early. I keep getting rear-ended by the AI *and* by humans... :) Not yet, but I'll keep reading it. And where can I find the book? And what's the title? __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> I already FEEL like I'm braking too early. I keep getting rear-ended by the AI > *and* by humans... :) OK, well, perhaps you are. I get rear-ended too sometimes. It's just that I used to try to go fast by braking far too late and then had to scrub off speed by sliding sideways, and for ages I wondered why I wasn't going faster. The best example is Sunset bend on Kyalami. It's easy to slide wide here. When I started braking 10 yards earlier and keeping tight to the line, I immediately gained at least half a second, although it felt slower, probably because more controlled. Hmm, don't bother, I read this somewhere but I'm not sure I understand it either now :) Off the top of my head: "The Technique of Motor Racing", Piero Taruffi, published by Barnes & Noble, written in 1959. I got it from Amazon.com. It's one of the books mentioned in the back of "4 Wheel Drift". Anton -- Antony Bowers, Department of Computer Science, University of Bristol, UK. http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~bowers/