VROC racing etticate

Please take this post in the way it was intended. It is not mean't to be derrogatory or offensive to anyone. It's purpose is hopefully to aid the improvement of the quality of on-line racing itself. I have been racing GPL on-line through VROC for some months now and I feel I must comment on some areas that irritate me. First off - Before a novice driver even attempts an on-line race I would suggest that they at least learn the track and some car control. It is very disconcerting to come up on one of these backmarkers as they are so unpredictable, more often than not they tend to take you off with them at the next corner they come to. Second - I personally feel that backmarkers should stay on the racing line when being lapped. I really don't mind one way or the other however when they do go off line more often than not they are carrying too much speed into the corner and tend to spin right in front of you. This may sound a bit harsh to the newbie but I have been a backmarker for long enough (and still am on occasions) to know that when the leaders approach to lap the worst thing you can do is panic. The easiest way to let a front runner pass, for both of you, is drive at your normal pace in the corners taking your usual line and allow him to pass on the next straight slowing down slightly if you have to. There's no need for you to go off line as the lapper should be skillful enough to get past and make the next corner anyhow. This is only my opinion and by no means applies to all slower drivers. Maybe I've just had a bad batch of races recently.

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> Please take this post in the way it was intended. > It is not mean't to be derrogatory or offensive to anyone. > It's purpose is hopefully to aid the improvement of the quality > of on-line racing itself. > I have been racing GPL on-line through VROC for some months now > and I feel I must comment on some areas that irritate me. > First off - Before a novice driver even attempts an on-line race I > would suggest that they at least learn the track and some car control. > It is very disconcerting to come up on one of these backmarkers > as they are so unpredictable, more often than not they tend to take > you off with them at the next corner they come to.

This is true.. However, What the heck are you doing trying to pass someone while still in a dangerous situation? Again, What the heck are you doing trying to pass someone while still in a dangerous situation? Now you're making sense:-) So long as the slower driver pretends that there is no one behind them, they will be ok. The only time they should think about anyone else (behind them) is when the pass is actually occurring. Then, and only then, should the slower driver vary his line (in a corner) and/or speed (in the strait) to help the situation. I get POed every now and then with the "slower" drivers. But, as of late, I've learned when and when not to pass a slower driver. Most of the time the second fastest driver will pass us both and take the slow car and him self out, Leaving me with not only a clear track but also with no one to worry about passing ;-) -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Only if you are being lapped.... and/or offspeed. If its for position, no way you should just give the position up, but it is important for both racers to maintain your line that you have chosen. Um...WHAT? Give me a break. Just because someone is slow is no reason to get POed at them for ANY reason. Now, if they are slow, have no control, don't know what they are doing its still not a real reason to be pissed....why not offer them some advice, set up or driving tips, etc? Now, if they are being jerks and deliberately taking people out, causing mayhem, etc then its rightfully justified to be POed.

On Tue, 4 May 1999 12:05:07 -0500, "Chris Schletter"

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>: >:> I get POed every now and then with the "slower" drivers. >: >:Um...WHAT? Give me a break. Just because someone is slow is no reason to >:get POed at them for ANY reason. Now, if they are slow, have no control, >:don't know what they are doing its still not a real reason to be >:pissed....why not offer them some advice, set up or driving tips, etc? Now, >:if they are being jerks and deliberately taking people out, causing mayhem, >:etc then its rightfully justified to be POed. >:

Agreed. Speaking of jerks....Its amazing to me how many people there are that have either have way too much free time or simply can't read. We start F3 ONLY races on GSB (VROC) only to continually have people join in F1s. Now i'm not talking about the guys that are so new that they don't know what F3s are or how to set them up. They leave when asked and usually are directed to instructions on setting up for F3. Its the idiots that think its funny to***up everyone elses hotlaps and tuning runs, take the pole (though many SUCK so bad the F3s would beat them!), then either leave at race time or cause the host to abort because they ignore the repeated calls to get out. So please, if the race says "F3 Only", don't come in in F1s (or F2s) and take the place of someone that WANTS to race F3s. <End rant> G. Patricks

On Tue, 04 May 1999 12:53:22 -0400, Michael Barlow

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>> Please take this post in the way it was intended. >> It is not mean't to be derrogatory or offensive to anyone. >> It's purpose is hopefully to aid the improvement of the quality >> of on-line racing itself. >> I have been racing GPL on-line through VROC for some months now >> and I feel I must comment on some areas that irritate me. >> First off - Before a novice driver even attempts an on-line race I >> would suggest that they at least learn the track and some car control. >> It is very disconcerting to come up on one of these backmarkers >> as they are so unpredictable, more often than not they tend to take >> you off with them at the next corner they come to. > This is true.. However, What the heck are you doing trying to pass >someone while still in a dangerous situation?

Who said I was trying to pass at this stage, if you mean on the corner, but I certainly feel I have the right to be close enough so they can see me in their mirrors and give me enough momentum in the straight to pass, however what usually happens is they panic, or perhaps they think they're racing for position, and the enivitable spin ensues. As I'm following them, there's a fair chance that I'm going to plow into them as they spin. It's not easy to change your line mid corner. Dangerous situation ? When I sit behind a backmarker in a corner it doesn't mean that this is where I have chosen to pass him. If he moves off line in the corner that is his decision. Have to agree with this as I've seen it so many times before. I'm not that fast in comparison to some however consistancy is the key and I find that quite often if I qualify in 4th or 5th place, before I know it, I'm in first place because everyone has gone off at least once. The pole man usually catches me up again but in his eagerness to get past he makes another mistake (racing for position here) leaving me to win the race. Doesn't always happen that way but I'm sure a lot of ppl can relate to this scenario. regards, Tony

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> > Now you're making sense:-) So long as the slower driver pretends that > > there is no one behind them, they will be ok. The only time they should > > think about anyone else (behind them) is when the pass is actually > > occurring. Then, and only then, should the slower driver vary his line > > (in a corner) and/or speed (in the strait) to help the situation. > Only if you are being lapped.... and/or offspeed. If its for position, no > way you should just give the position up, but it is important for both > racers to maintain your line that you have chosen.

You are right! but, to a point. If you are racing for position; By all means, protect that position. However, If you are racing for position and are being passed, It's not only safer to give the position away but also easier to gain the position back immediately after the pass and gain some distance between you when you pass back. Either way, the guy who is passing is faster at that point. It's *my opinion* that there is no pass being made till the passing driver has his nose even with your back wheels. We are talking about two different "slower drivers". The slower drivers I'm talking about are the ones trying to save there position. Not the ones that have problems driving. The ones with problems driving, I'll slow down and follow till I find the right place to pass. With luck I will make the right choice. Again, It's the drivers that I know *know* what to do but try to protect that position at any cost. Have Fun, Mike Barlow -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Hi all, There's only one thing that I find very irritating: Drivers who race you on their pit out laps during a practice. When you're on a pit out lap, please try to let by the drivers who aren't. How do you know the driver behind you is on his pit out lap or not? Simple. You don't. Remember you have nothing to lose on that lap, so if someone shows up behind you on your pit out lap with more speed than you have, don't accelerate. Let him by easy. You'll lose nothing, and you'll get a good reputation of being a nice guy to race with. Another thing is maybe you CAN stay in front, maybe you ARE faster even on cold tires. But remember that you may be masking braking points for the driver who's following you, or cause some nervousness (?) on his behalf. Result of either case: You***that driver's lap. Remember also that screwing up other people's laps could eventually lead to screwing up the starting grid, i.e. faster drivers that didn't get a clean lap will start behind slower drivers. The result of this is often that big tunr 1 pile-up. You don't want that. So please everyone, be very courteous on your pit out lap, especially if I'm in the driver list for the event! Frank Francois Dubuc, Simulator ***world, [link lost in import: /***world/]

> First off - Before a novice driver even attempts an on-line race I > would suggest that they at least learn the track and some car control. > It is very disconcerting to come up on one of these backmarkers > as they are so unpredictable, more often than not they tend to take > you off with them at the next corner they come to. Too true but impossibe to police at this point of course. This is 100% correct. Sometimes drivers can do you a tremendous disservice by trying to do you a favor. Many times I have set up a pass coming off a previous corner to overtake under braking into the next only to see that an over polite driver is right there. With the car fully loaded on it's suspension and braking left 'til the last moment a disastrous outcome is certain. If a driver about to be lapped really wants to be polite then he should be sure to do it by staying to the outside of a corner. Where one corner leads to another of the opposite direction he should just go through there as fast as he can.

Absolutely. I remember a qualifying session at Kyalami. One idiot in a F1 car refused to leave and wrecked peoples chances of getting a good lap in. In the race he rammed me from behind coming up about 60 mph faster than I was going. He proceeded to continue running round on three wheels for another 2 laps and finally left telling us that one day we might be fast enough to drive F1 cars. His pole time BTW was 1:28. HAHAHAHA. I think that I am going to get a blacklist page on my web site and publish replays of all the idiots I encounter who mehave like ***s online. Mark

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>On Tue, 4 May 1999 12:05:07 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >>: >>:> I get POed every now and then with the "slower" drivers. >>: >>:Um...WHAT? Give me a break. Just because someone is slow is no reason

to >>:get POed at them for ANY reason. Now, if they are slow, have no control, >>:don't know what they are doing its still not a real reason to be >>:pissed....why not offer them some advice, set up or driving tips, etc? Now, >>:if they are being jerks and deliberately taking people out, causing mayhem,

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>>:etc then its rightfully justified to be POed. >>: >Agreed. Speaking of jerks....Its amazing to me how many people there >are that have either have way too much free time or simply can't read. >We start F3 ONLY races on GSB (VROC) only to continually have people >join in F1s. Now i'm not talking about the guys that are so new that >they don't know what F3s are or how to set them up. They leave when >asked and usually are directed to instructions on setting up for F3. >Its the idiots that think its funny to***up everyone elses hotlaps >and tuning runs, take the pole (though many SUCK so bad the F3s would >beat them!), then either leave at race time or cause the host to abort >because they ignore the repeated calls to get out. >So please, if the race says "F3 Only", don't come in in F1s (or F2s) >and take the place of someone that WANTS to race F3s. ><End rant> >G. Patricks

On Sun, 9 May 1999 15:23:51 +0100, "Mark Seery"

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>Absolutely. >I remember a qualifying session at Kyalami. One idiot in a F1 car refused to >leave and wrecked peoples chances of getting a good lap in. In the race he >rammed me from behind coming up about 60 mph faster than I was going. He >proceeded to continue running round on three wheels for another 2 laps and >finally left telling us that one day we might be fast enough to drive F1 >cars. >His pole time BTW was 1:28. HAHAHAHA. I think that I am going to get a >blacklist page on my web site and publish replays of all the idiots I >encounter who mehave like ***s online. >Mark

As Mike Barlow so eloquently puts it - "I WANT GPL 1.1!" Then we can BOOT out (and blacklist IPs?) the offenders. G. Patricks

<Znib> Keep in mind you could put ANY name in GPL.... Remco

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>> First off - Before a novice driver even attempts an on-line race I >> would suggest that they at least learn the track and some car control. >> It is very disconcerting to come up on one of these backmarkers >> as they are so unpredictable, more often than not they tend to take >> you off with them at the next corner they come to. > This is true.. However, What the heck are you doing trying to pass >someone while still in a dangerous situation?

So - you SHOULDN'T try to pass the backmarkers...? __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

IP addresses can change every dial-up. It would be had to ban a specific IP address... __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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>Patricks) writes: >>As Mike Barlow so eloquently puts it - "I WANT GPL 1.1!" >>Then we can BOOT out (and blacklist IPs?) the offenders. >>G. Patricks >IP addresses can change every dial-up. It would be had to ban a specific IP >address...

Yes, Dynamic addressing changes with each new log in, so those people would have to re-dial into their ISP to be able to come back and annoy anew. Staic IPs would be gone for good. Either way it would help.. G. Patricks

Do it Jens On Sun, 9 May 1999 15:23:51 +0100, "Mark Seery" >Absolutely. >I remember a qualifying session at Kyalami. One idiot in a F1 car refused to <snip> >I think that I am going to get a >blacklist page on my web site and publish replays of all the idiots I >encounter who mehave like ***s online. >Mark --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

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> >> First off - Before a novice driver even attempts an on-line race I > >> would suggest that they at least learn the track and some car control. > >> It is very disconcerting to come up on one of these backmarkers > >> as they are so unpredictable, more often than not they tend to take > >> you off with them at the next corner they come to. > > This is true.. However, What the heck are you doing trying to pass > >someone while still in a dangerous situation? > So - you SHOULDN'T try to pass the backmarkers...?

I didn't say that.. He mentioned the ones that are out of control. If they are out of control then obviously it's dangerous to pass. When they have gathered them selves up you can pass without much problem. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Not with cable!! ;O)

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> Patricks) writes: > IP addresses can change every dial-up. It would be had to ban a specific IP > address... > __ > Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... > remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I just want to say that I think it's important to develop a fair way of detecting who the actual backwards-racing jerks are. I say this because once, _once_, I was in an online race at (I think) Spa, went off and around and around. Since I hadn't actually hit anything, and I didn't want to lose my warmed tires, I drove back unto the track and proceeded down a long, rather featureless straight. After a few seconds, lo and behold I see in the hazy distance a car approaching me. "YIKES!" After a split second thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around backwards??!," I realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the road and disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations somehow mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right direction when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up blacklisting someone for a similar mistake. Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary brain fade, and intentional dastardliness? --david > On Sun, 9 May 1999 15:23:51 +0100, "Mark Seery" > >Absolutely. > >I remember a qualifying session at Kyalami. One idiot in a F1 car refused to > >leave and wrecked peoples chances of getting a good lap in. In the race he > >rammed me from behind coming up about 60 mph faster than I was going. He > >proceeded to continue running round on three wheels for another 2 laps and

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> >finally left telling us that one day we might be fast enough to drive F1 > >cars. > >His pole time BTW was 1:28. HAHAHAHA. I think that I am going to get a > >blacklist page on my web site and publish replays of all the idiots I > >encounter who mehave like ***s online. > >Mark > As Mike Barlow so eloquently puts it - "I WANT GPL 1.1!" > Then we can BOOT out (and blacklist IPs?) the offenders. > G. Patricks

You had no idea where you were after the spin? Odd?

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> After a split second > thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around backwards??!," I > realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the road and > disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations somehow > mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right direction > when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up blacklisting > someone for a similar mistake. > Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary brain fade, > and intentional dastardliness? > --david

Odd, indeed. Odd, but true. So should I be canned, panned and banned? dk

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> You had no idea where you were after the spin? Odd? > > After a split second > > thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around

backwards??!," I > > realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the road and > > disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations somehow > > mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right direction > > when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up blacklisting > > someone for a similar mistake. > > Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary brain fade, > > and intentional dastardliness? > > --david

Hey Fretts, i have seen what David was describing happen as well to a member of our league, who i know is a genuine sim racer in every way. He didn't do it on purpose, or do it to be a disruptive influence, he simply got disoriented. Some times it is possible to get confused after a spin, as some of the tracks are a little featureless in places.. I know i have done it myself once at the Ring, without realising i was even going the wrong way untill i approached the following corner. .. I can see that getting confused about the right direction after a spin, would be very easy to do for someone that does not spend 4 hours a day in GPL, learning all the tracks off by heart.. Cheers, Ron

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> You had no idea where you were after the spin? Odd? > > After a split second > > thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around

backwards??!," I > > realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the road and > > disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations somehow > > mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right direction > > when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up blacklisting > > someone for a similar mistake. > > Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary brain fade, > > and intentional dastardliness? > > --david

>Only if you are being lapped.... and/or offspeed. If its for position, no >> way you should just give the position up, but it is important for both >> racers to maintain your line that you have chosen. If there has been a wreck and a driver catches you fast I feel that you should treat that like being lapped and give the position without a fight. You usually know if you have driven by faster drivers who have crashed. Especially first lap crashes that they may not have caused. People will remember a courteous driver, but will soon forget if you finished in 4th or 6th place. Don Jacobs

Good time to use the F10 view. Scott says...

Just Odd? Do you think you should be canned, panned and banned? Or maybe do you think a compass might help? Just "inquiring minds would like to know?" <g> Cheers... tj

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> Odd, indeed. Odd, but true. So should I be canned, panned and banned? > dk > > You had no idea where you were after the spin? Odd? > > > After a split second > > > thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around > backwards??!," I > > > realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the road and > > > disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations > somehow > > > mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right > direction > > > when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up > blacklisting > > > someone for a similar mistake. > > > Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary brain > fade, > > > and intentional dastardliness? > > > --david

Hello Ron; > Hey Fretts, i have seen what David was describing happen as well to a > member of our league, who i know is a genuine sim racer in every way. > He didn't do it on purpose, or do it to be a disruptive influence, he > simply got disoriented. Did I say he did it on purpose? Is Spa? Don't you think the Ring might be more complexed? Anyway nothing to be overly concerened about...eh? Was it real life? Dont think so & I was only curious? no more..no less.. Cheers Thom_j.

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> > You had no idea where you were after the spin? Odd? > > > After a split second > > > thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around > backwards??!," I > > > realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the > road and > > > disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations > somehow > > > mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right > direction > > > when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up > blacklisting > > > someone for a similar mistake. > > > Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary > brain fade, > > > and intentional dastardliness? > > > --david

Scott; Great Point! But I suppose anyone can simply get disoriented? Again nothing overly important.. I guess?? No harm done... Cheers Thom_j. aka ^Fretts...

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> Good time to use the F10 view. > Scott > says... > > Hey Fretts, i have seen what David was describing happen as well to a > > member of our league, who i know is a genuine sim racer in every way. > > He didn't do it on purpose, or do it to be a disruptive influence, he > > simply got disoriented. > > Some times it is possible to get confused after a spin, as some of the > > tracks are a little featureless in places.. > > I know i have done it myself once at the Ring, without realising i was > > even going the wrong way untill i approached the following corner. .. > > I can see that getting confused about the right direction after a spin, > > would be very easy to do for someone that does not spend 4 hours a day > > in GPL, learning all the tracks off by heart.. > > Cheers, > > Ron

well, shit. I can try to be simpler, and clearer: all I was trying to do was to point out that if such a filtering option is implemented, we all have to take care not to unfairly penalize the odd mistake. I used my single (<--) misadventure as a case in point. In the lovely words of E. Costello, "Do I have to draw you a diagram?"

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> Just Odd? Do you think you should be canned, panned and banned? > Or maybe do you think a compass might help? Just "inquiring minds > would like to know?" <g> > Cheers... tj > > Odd, indeed. Odd, but true. So should I be canned, panned and banned? > > dk > > > You had no idea where you were after the spin? Odd? > > > > After a split second > > > > thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around > > backwards??!," I > > > > realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the road

and

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> > > > disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations > > somehow > > > > mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right > > direction > > > > when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up > > blacklisting > > > > someone for a similar mistake. > > > > Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary

brain > > fade, > > > > and intentional dastardliness? > > > > --david

Geez Dave relax.. I only asked.. But if you'd like to "draw you a diagram" it might be interesting.. Cheers Thom_j.

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> well, shit. > I can try to be simpler, and clearer: all I was trying to do was to point > out that if such a filtering option is implemented, we all have to take care > not to unfairly penalize the odd mistake. I used my single (<--) > misadventure as a case in point. > In the lovely words of E. Costello, "Do I have to draw you a diagram?" > > Just Odd? Do you think you should be canned, panned and banned? > > Or maybe do you think a compass might help? Just "inquiring minds > > would like to know?" <g> > > Cheers... tj > > > Odd, indeed. Odd, but true. So should I be canned, panned and banned? > > > dk > > > > You had no idea where you were after the spin? Odd? > > > > > After a split second > > > > > thinking "what's this fool think he's doing, driving around > > > backwards??!," I > > > > > realized "OMIGOD!" (sorry, daxe), "IT's ME!" and hopped off the road > and > > > > > disconnected. Stupid of me, perhaps--I think the spin's gyrations > > > somehow > > > > > mixed me up enough to where I thought I was pointed in the right > > > direction > > > > > when I restarted. But unless we are careful, we might end up > > > blacklisting > > > > > someone for a similar mistake. > > > > > Are we going to be able to tell the difference between temporary > brain > > > fade, > > > > > and intentional dastardliness? > > > > > --david

Yep, first thing I thought when I got GPL was "Where in the hell is the ***y compass?". Maybe GPL2? > Just Odd? Do you think you should be canned, panned and banned? > Or maybe do you think a compass might help? Just "inquiring minds > would like to know?" <g> > Cheers... tj

See Byron knows!! <BG>

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> Yep, first thing I thought when I got GPL was "Where in the hell is > the ***y compass?". Maybe GPL2? > > Just Odd? Do you think you should be canned, panned and banned? > > Or maybe do you think a compass might help? Just "inquiring minds > > would like to know?" <g> > > Cheers... tj

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>>Patricks) writes: >>>As Mike Barlow so eloquently puts it - "I WANT GPL 1.1!" >>>Then we can BOOT out (and blacklist IPs?) the offenders. >>>G. Patricks >>IP addresses can change every dial-up. It would be had to ban a specific IP >>address... >Yes, Dynamic addressing changes with each new log in, so those people >would have to re-dial into their ISP to be able to come back and annoy >anew. Staic IPs would be gone for good. Either way it would help..

Just block the whole pool of ip addresses like the entire class C network. This might harm other people on the same subnet, but the probability will be quite low. ;-) Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp, Telemedia ////////////// Phone: +49 5241 80 10 66 Carl-Bertelsmann-Str. 161 I \\\\\\\\\\ uwe.schuerkamp at telemedia.de 33311 Guetersloh \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ http://www.schuerkamp.de/ PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

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>> >> First off - Before a novice driver even attempts an on-line race I >> >> would suggest that they at least learn the track and some car control. >> >> It is very disconcerting to come up on one of these backmarkers >> >> as they are so unpredictable, more often than not they tend to take >> >> you off with them at the next corner they come to. >> > This is true.. However, What the heck are you doing trying to pass >> >someone while still in a dangerous situation? >> So - you SHOULDN'T try to pass the backmarkers...? > I didn't say that.. He mentioned the ones that are out of control. If >they are out of control then obviously it's dangerous to pass. When they >have gathered them selves up you can pass without much problem.

You mean, IF they have gathered themselves up... <g> __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>Hey Fretts, i have seen what David was describing happen as well to a >member of our league, who i know is a genuine sim racer in every way. >He didn't do it on purpose, or do it to be a disruptive influence, he >simply got disoriented. >Some times it is possible to get confused after a spin, as some of the >tracks are a little featureless in places.. ...or if you've turned off more details to get frame rate...<g> __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.