The manual says raise the tire P's for better handling and grip. If I recall
from my autox days, lower pressures are better for grip (up to a point), but
sacrifice responsiveness. Anyway, isn't the pressure supposed to be set to
give even tire T's (but that's another SCGT beef...). Basically, have they
simplified this aspect too much, and incorrectly?
Youi right
high psi.. more resposive.. but less TOTAL grip
lower. less responisve.. but higher overal grip..
BUT.. should be set to EVEN the tire temps...
James
PS.. pity SCGT does do temps :-(
> The manual says raise the tire P's for better handling and grip. If I recall
> from my autox days, lower pressures are better for grip (up to a point), but
> sacrifice responsiveness. Anyway, isn't the pressure supposed to be set to
> give even tire T's (but that's another SCGT beef...). Basically, have they
> simplified this aspect too much, and incorrectly?
They've simplified way too much of the game. IMO its nothing more than the
big brother version of Gran Turismo for the PC. Which in and of itself is
not a bad thing. But there is just so much missing or just plain wrong.
As to tire pressure. Yes, lower pressure can give more grip but not be
responsive. Also it tends to heat up the tire too due to more friction.
High pressure is just the opposite. Tire temps can be handled somewhat by
pressure although the middle of the tire is the portion that tends to
benefit most but across the board the temp of the tire is effected by
pressure. The outside and inside edges can be managed by setting your
camber right. However, all these tuning techniques are utterly useless if
you can't even see what your tire temps are. Given than they are not
present in the game I have to wonder if they are modeled at all.
Yes it seems like the guy who did the work on tires was an autocrosser.
Due to the tires rolling over in Autocrossing you go for more pressure to
keep the tread face of tire in contact with surface. Unfortunately this is
not true with autocross cars that run slicks. I think someone drew on
their expirence on this. At least it is consistant in the game less
pressure less grip and less responsiveness, more pressure more grip and
responsiveness.
Dave
> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:40:45 GMT,
> >If I recall
> >from my autox days, lower pressures are better for grip (up to a point), but
Quoted text (7 lines)
> >sacrifice responsiveness. > If I remember my AutoX / Solo1 days, low tire pressure can > cause your tires to be pushed off the rim.. :) > -- > // rrevved posts from mindspring dot comHA!! Guess I have. I wouldn't even try GPL with a joystick and using
buttons for throttle/brake, but I can easily handle SCGT with that
configuration.....damn, TM for being so damn slow with parts.
'Sides I said Big Brother of GT, i.e. its what I would have expected from a
more matured GT that was presented on the PC. Its not a sim racer, but its
a pretty good arcade racer. However, many of its shortcomings deflate the
good attributes of the title.
Boy are you guys bringing up a much debated subject :)
I have an Audi A4 FWD (sadly, not a Quattro), and I have yet to find the
right pressures. But I have also heard a zillion opinions on the subject
too! Hell, I even had one guy tell me to run only about 20psi in the rears,
and 45psi in the front!
So far, it seems that on my new Toyo Proxy T1+ tires (235/40/17), 38-42psi
front seems to work pretty good, but I am still not sure what works right in
the rear. And as you only get 3 chances in a Solo II, there is no real way
to test correctly. One event the rears seem good at 4-10psi lower in the
rear, and others it seems that 4-10psi higher in the rear works.
Now I am not a newbie to Solo II, as I started in 1974 (and a lot of track
events too), but all those years I was in a RWD, and I quit in 87, so I am
rusty, as well as new to FWD.
Now you got me curious, WHO is this game designer / fellow AutoX'er? If you
don't want to post it, E-Mail me in private? I wonder if I might know him??
As it is now, a guy from Activision is in our Solo II series in the Sport
Truck class.
Quoted text (10 lines)
>On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:40:45 GMT, >>If I recall >>from my autox days, lower pressures are better for grip (up to a point), but >>sacrifice responsiveness. >If I remember my AutoX / Solo1 days, low tire pressure can >cause your tires to be pushed off the rim.. :)What kind of car is it. That will make a big difference. I run my
Goodyear slicks at lower pressures then most guys with DOT rated tires.
The DOT tires seem to have softer sidwalls and roll over much easier and
that is why you pump the pressures up. If you roll the tire over to the
sidewall, you loose adhesion, with racing slicks the sidewalls are so
stiff its not a problem.
Front drive cars like more pressure up front due to the wieght they carry.
But due to the tight corners you find in Solo ll events even a rear whell
drive car will run high pressures. I would recommend at least 5 psi higher
then what you run on street minimum and I see some guys run Golfs and
Civics with as much as 45 psi in the fronts.
Dave
>What kind of car is it. That will make a big difference.
I'm running a '94 Integra LS with Dunlop d60a2's. Normal P is 30 psi. I'm
planning on putting in 40 and asking the instructor (it's a class. Hey you
get more seat time there!) what he recommends. When I ran my old second gen
Prelude on stock tires, I had them up at about 40 and did some serious
sidewall scrubbing on a skidpad.
Back to sims, I'd really like to see an autox sim, or at least a Gran Turismo
like sim where you drive real world cars, with the ability to do realistic
modifications. A few years back, I talked to one of the better known game
designers (actually, about the best there is) who is also a national-class
autoX'er about doing an autoX sim. He thought it too much a niche market.
Maybe with the popularity of Gran Turismo, and the increased popularity of
non-traditional PC racing sims (ie, not all Nascar/F1/ICR), maybe I should
advocate again?
Dave,
That is a good starting point, I might go higher if tires roll over too
much. The rears you will want to raise or lower pressure to get car to
turn in better. On the Integra they basically hold the back of the car up
so you can tune in oversteer with them by adjusting pressures.
There was a part of Hard Driver years ago that had a autocross portion of
it. It was neat, but very hard to judge corner entry speed. I usually
ended up understeering off the track alot.
Good Luck.
Dave
> >What kind of car is it. That will make a big difference.
> I'm running a '94 Integra LS with Dunlop d60a2's. Normal P is 30 psi. I'm
> planning on putting in 40 and asking the instructor (it's a class. Hey you
> get more seat time there!) what he recommends. When I ran my old second gen
> Prelude on stock tires, I had them up at about 40 and did some serious
> sidewall scrubbing on a skidpad.
> Back to sims, I'd really like to see an autox sim, or at least a Gran Turismo
> like sim where you drive real world cars, with the ability to do realistic
> modifications. A few years back, I talked to one of the better known game
> designers (actually, about the best there is) who is also a national-class
> autoX'er about doing an autoX sim. He thought it too much a niche market.
> Maybe with the popularity of Gran Turismo, and the increased popularity of
> non-traditional PC racing sims (ie, not all Nascar/F1/ICR), maybe I should
> advocate again?
Mike I wish I could help, but with my slicks and 1600 lb car I run like 25
psi in the front and 20 in the rear. I have had as low as 18 in the rear
to hook up on bad surfaces, but remeber my car runs prepared and uses a
very soft compound stiff sidewalled tire.
Dave
PMFJI, but to me, Viper Racing really seems to have more of an autox
orientation, as opposed to the pure racing environments in GPL or
SCGT. Have you given VR a try, yet? Only one type of car, but its a
GREAT car, to be sure!
-- JB
Quoted text (16 lines)
>>What kind of car is it. That will make a big difference. >I'm running a '94 Integra LS with Dunlop d60a2's. Normal P is 30 psi. I'm >planning on putting in 40 and asking the instructor (it's a class. Hey you >get more seat time there!) what he recommends. When I ran my old second gen >Prelude on stock tires, I had them up at about 40 and did some serious >sidewall scrubbing on a skidpad. >Back to sims, I'd really like to see an autox sim, or at least a Gran Turismo >like sim where you drive real world cars, with the ability to do realistic >modifications. A few years back, I talked to one of the better known game >designers (actually, about the best there is) who is also a national-class >autoX'er about doing an autoX sim. He thought it too much a niche market. >Maybe with the popularity of Gran Turismo, and the increased popularity of >non-traditional PC racing sims (ie, not all Nascar/F1/ICR), maybe I should >advocate again?>PMFJI, but to me, Viper Racing really seems to have more of an autox
>orientation, as opposed to the pure racing environments in GPL or
>SCGT. Have you given VR a try, yet? Only one type of car, but its a
>GREAT car, to be sure!
After all my years on the net, I'm embarrased to ask: what's "PMFJI"?
I tried the VR demo, but I can't get into a 1-car sim as much as I can a
1-plane sim.
I could tell you ...
Well, okay. It's Andy Hollis, of Janes Longbow and F15 fame. At least in the
past, he raced CRX's and MR2's (or was it Neons?).
PMFJI = "Pardon Me For Jumping In"
<G>
-- JB
Quoted text (9 lines)
>>PMFJI, but to me, Viper Racing really seems to have more of an autox >>orientation, as opposed to the pure racing environments in GPL or >>SCGT. Have you given VR a try, yet? Only one type of car, but its a >>GREAT car, to be sure! >After all my years on the net, I'm embarrased to ask: what's "PMFJI"? >I tried the VR demo, but I can't get into a 1-car sim as much as I can a >1-plane sim.THANKS to all for this thread -- I tried upping the front tire
pressure a bit on some of my setups for the much-maligned ABC Indy
Racing sim, and I've found some VERY usable setups for Indy and
C***te now as a result -- THANKS! Seems I was going too low on the
pressure looking for more grip; never thought about responsiveness and
turn-in (I'm a bonehead, I guess). Anyway, your advice made the
difference!
FWIW, ABC Indy Racing has a very decent physics model -- I know a lot
of people really bashed this game when it came out, but the default
setups suck, which is a major problem. Spend some time in the garage,
though, and you can REALLY dial-in a great setup (and the physics
works just like it should in response to your chassis tinkering).
With the right hardware, you CAN go wheel-to-wheel for lap after lap
with the AI, and they aren't really all that much worse than the AI in
Viper Racing or SCGT. There was no damage model, though, and given
the great damage model in sims like ICR2, I think that was the nail in
the coffin for this sim. Oddly enough, it seems that this lack of a
damage model isn't going to have the same effect on SCGT's popularity.
Times change, opinions change, I guess.
At any rate, thanks for the advice to all you tire-meisters out there!
-- JB
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:36 +1000, James Pickard
Quoted text (20 lines)
>Youi right >high psi.. more resposive.. but less TOTAL grip >lower. less responisve.. but higher overal grip.. >BUT.. should be set to EVEN the tire temps... >James >PS.. pity SCGT does do temps :-( >> The manual says raise the tire P's for better handling and grip. If I recall >> from my autox days, lower pressures are better for grip (up to a point), but >> sacrifice responsiveness. Anyway, isn't the pressure supposed to be set to >> give even tire T's (but that's another SCGT beef...). Basically, have they >> simplified this aspect too much, and incorrectly?If a Civic guy is running 45 psi in the front... He's doing something
wrong. I ran my CSP civic at about 25 in front and 27 in back. yoko 008
rs. Barely touched the sidewalls at all. I certainly was not rolling
the tires over.
wilbur
>There was no damage model, though, and given
>the great damage model in sims like ICR2, I think that was the nail in
>the coffin for this sim. Oddly enough, it seems that this lack of a
>damage model isn't going to have the same effect on SCGT's popularity.
>Times change, opinions change, I guess.
John, you're wrong on this one. There is a damage model in both
games. The reason Road to Indy got trashed is because the game is
simulating very damage-sensitive cars with which even one good thump
against a wall will put you out of a race. The damage would not
actually be visible until you'd whacked the hell out of your car and
even then all you'd get was a suspension arm sticking up. You were
effectively racing with no risk. In SCGT, the damage model is never
VISIBLE, but it IS much easier to incur than in Indy, and it does
affect top speed, handling, tire wear, etc. You see a written
description of what broke and you have to decide whether to fix it or
not, but because it does impact your ability to finish the race or be
competitive in it, it is a far superior better damage model than Indy.
Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder
