A Revised and perhpas more workable GAS OUT idea

Ok folks I just got this in E-Mail today, and this seems like a more viable method. At least one company a week WILL feel our wrath. If you haven't heard, April 30th has been targeted as a one day event to stay away from all gas stations. THIS WILL NOT WORK! One day will not make an impact on the outrageous prices we are paying for gas and the oil companies are laughing throughout their board rooms. Starting April 11th we will strategically target the BIG oil companies for ONE WEEK. Please do not buy gas at the stations on the following dates listed below: CHEVRON----------------------------------April 18th through April 25th EXON-------------------------------------April 25th through May 2nd SHELL------------------------------------May 2nd through May 9th 76---------------------------------------May 9th through May 16th Texaco-----------------------------------May 16th through May 23rd This will work if we all pull together .There is a strong perception in northern California by the oil companies that consumers will pay whatever the market will bear. These weekly boycotts may be required on a continuous basis until the message is clear that the unfair and unjustified high prices will not be tolerated by the consumer. Please forward this message to friends, family members, and anyone else who will support this effort via email, fax, word of mouth etc -- Thanks Mike Z Please remove the *** front and back to reply

So how much is a gallon of Gas in the States then? and if you think that's bad come over to England. cos it's going to be a lot more that you pay. Andrew Thatcher

On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:53:21 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy"

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>Ok folks I just got this in E-Mail today, and this seems like a more viable >method. At least one company a week WILL feel our wrath. > If you haven't heard, April 30th has been targeted as a one day >event to stay away from all gas stations. THIS WILL NOT WORK! >One day will not make an impact on the outrageous prices we are paying >for gas and the oil companies are laughing throughout their board rooms. >Starting April 11th we will strategically target the BIG oil companies >for ONE WEEK. Please do not buy gas at the stations on the following dates >listed below: >CHEVRON----------------------------------April 18th through April 25th >EXON-------------------------------------April 25th through May 2nd >SHELL------------------------------------May 2nd through May 9th >76---------------------------------------May 9th through May 16th >Texaco-----------------------------------May 16th through May 23rd >This will work if we all pull together .There is a strong perception >in northern California by the oil companies that consumers will pay >whatever the market will bear. >These weekly boycotts may be required on a continuous basis until the >message is clear that the unfair and unjustified high prices will not be >tolerated by the consumer. >Please forward this message to friends, family members, and anyone else >who will support this effort via email, fax, word of mouth etc

Please....give me a LARGE BREAK. I know the gas prices in CA are waaaaay out of control...but what's your option? Come on, what's next?? How about a week where you hold your breath too? You've no option...that's the problem. Why don't you start going after the state and cutting those taxes instead?? You pay a lot of tax on a gallon of gas. The Europeans in those newsgroups are laughing at what you're complaining at. It could be a lot worse. OK, JKS

HAHAHAHAHAHA You guys crack me up in the States. If you paid $5.00 per gallon you would still be paying 1/2 what we do in the UK. HAHAHAHAHAHA Mark

Yeah referring to European prices, in Finland we pay over 75% taxes ! At least one good point, we still have leaden 99oct in pump. 99oct is approx. $4/gallon Kimmo Hedman Finland

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> Please....give me a LARGE BREAK. I know the gas prices in CA are > waaaaay out of control...but what's your option? Come on, what's > next?? How about a week where you hold your breath too? > You've no option...that's the problem. Why don't you start going after > the state and cutting those taxes instead?? You pay a lot of tax on a > gallon of gas. The Europeans in those newsgroups are laughing at what > you're complaining at. It could be a lot worse. > OK, > JKS

<sigh> This suffers from the same problem as the original. In order to hurt the oil companies you need to CHANGE YOUR ENTIRE LIFESTYLE TO USE LESS FUEL. One day won't do it. One week won't do it. Think about it. The week you're not buying from Chevron, Exxon et al are making extra money. When you're not buying from Exxon, Chevron et al are making the money. And so on. It all comes out in the wash. The money comes in on different dates, but you're using the same amount of fuel. On May 23rd each of those companies will have substantially the same money they would have had without this silliness. If you're hell bent on hurting oil companies then use public transportation, buy an electric car, convert your current car to propane or hydrogen, buy a smaller more fuel efficient car and keep it tuned up. It'll be better for the environment and you'll have a head start on the rest of us (petroleum is a finite resource.) Hurting the oil companies seems a silly reason to go to that trouble, in my minuscule opinion. Mighty

Hey, all you Europeans (and where-ever else gas costs $4-5 per gallon.) This protest is not (really) about the cost of gas. It's about rip-offs by the producers. The cost of a gallon of unleaded regular 87 octane went from about $0.99 per gallon to $1.47 per gallon IN ONE MONTH! But ONLY on the west coast (California, Oregon, Washington). How would you like it if a gallon (liter) of gas went from $4 (0.75 pound) to $6 (1.25 pound) in one month? Actually, I personally don't care - our gas is so cheap that it's in the noise; my car insurance is many times higher than my gasoline costs. Lay off, we already know how much taxes you spend on gas in Europe, and how much you pay. But you evidently don't know anything about the situation in the states, otherwise you would be supporting this gas-out. Floyd Rogers

No, it's just that WE DON'T ***ING CARE! Especially not in rec.auto.sims, where I'm reading this, as "gas" (we call it petrol, BTW) only costs a mouse-click per gallon. GAS-OUT sounds like a mass tyre (not tire) deflation exercise to us. Or some sort of farting-based work-out. Ken

A big shout out goes to all the UK lorry drivers in the protest of expensive fuel prices over here. ------------------------------------------------------------------ :Ok folks I just got this in E-Mail today, and this seems like a more viable :method. At least one company a week WILL feel our wrath. : : : If you haven't heard, April 30th has been targeted as a one day :event to stay away from all gas stations. THIS WILL NOT WORK! :One day will not make an impact on the outrageous prices we are paying :for gas and the oil companies are laughing throughout their board rooms. :Starting April 11th we will strategically target the BIG oil companies :for ONE WEEK. Please do not buy gas at the stations on the following dates :listed below: : :CHEVRON----------------------------------April 18th through April 25th :EXON-------------------------------------April 25th through May 2nd :SHELL------------------------------------May 2nd through May 9th :76---------------------------------------May 9th through May 16th :Texaco-----------------------------------May 16th through May 23rd : :This will work if we all pull together .There is a strong perception :in northern California by the oil companies that consumers will pay :whatever the market will bear. :These weekly boycotts may be required on a continuous basis until the :message is clear that the unfair and unjustified high prices will not be :tolerated by the consumer. :Please forward this message to friends, family members, and anyone else :who will support this effort via email, fax, word of mouth etc : :-- :Thanks :Mike Z : :Please remove the *** front and back to reply : : :

Just because you guys are overdue for a revolution, doesn't mean we have to be happy with what we have. -Paul

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> HAHAHAHAHAHA > You guys crack me up in the States. If you paid $5.00 per gallon you would > still be paying 1/2 what we do in the UK. HAHAHAHAHAHA > Mark > >Ok folks I just got this in E-Mail today, and this seems like a more

viable

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> >method. At least one company a week WILL feel our wrath. > > If you haven't heard, April 30th has been targeted as a one day > >event to stay away from all gas stations. THIS WILL NOT WORK! > >One day will not make an impact on the outrageous prices we are paying > >for gas and the oil companies are laughing throughout their board rooms. > >Starting April 11th we will strategically target the BIG oil companies > >for ONE WEEK. Please do not buy gas at the stations on the following > dates > >listed below: > >CHEVRON----------------------------------April 18th through April 25th > >EXON-------------------------------------April 25th through May 2nd > >SHELL------------------------------------May 2nd through May 9th > >76---------------------------------------May 9th through May 16th > >Texaco-----------------------------------May 16th through May 23rd > >This will work if we all pull together .There is a strong perception > >in northern California by the oil companies that consumers will pay > >whatever the market will bear. > >These weekly boycotts may be required on a continuous basis until the > >message is clear that the unfair and unjustified high prices will not > be > >tolerated by the consumer. > >Please forward this message to friends, family members, and anyone else > >who will support this effort via email, fax, word of mouth etc > >-- > >Thanks > >Mike Z > >Please remove the *** front and back to reply

Is it just me, or did anyone else think 'well duh.' By definition the price in a capitalist system IS 'whatever the market will bear' Bob

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> > So how much is a gallon of Gas in the States then? and if you think > that's > > bad come over to England. cos it's going to be a lot more that you pay. > Hey, all you Europeans (and where-ever else gas costs $4-5 per gallon.) > This protest is not (really) about the cost of gas. It's about rip-offs by > the producers. > The cost of a gallon of unleaded regular 87 octane went from about $0.99 > per gallon to $1.47 per gallon IN ONE MONTH! But ONLY on the west coast > (California, Oregon, Washington).

Gee. 5 refinery fires in two weeks. Hmmm... Prices in Chicago are steady, so frankly, we don't care. If this is a concerted effort by producers to rip you off (can you say "market failure"?), why is it only in the Southwest (Phoenix had the same change in prices)? I suggest you study remedial economics and look at gas price trends elsewhere. Also, for what it's worth, gas prices are still below pre-1972 shock levels. ...Craig --- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain - Schiller

Well maybe it's just payback time for your years of decadance <G> Mark

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>Just because you guys are overdue for a revolution, doesn't mean we have to >be happy with what we have. >-Paul >> HAHAHAHAHAHA >> You guys crack me up in the States. If you paid $5.00 per gallon you

would

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>> still be paying 1/2 what we do in the UK. HAHAHAHAHAHA >> Mark >> >Ok folks I just got this in E-Mail today, and this seems like a more >viable >> >method. At least one company a week WILL feel our wrath. >> > If you haven't heard, April 30th has been targeted as a one day >> >event to stay away from all gas stations. THIS WILL NOT WORK! >> >One day will not make an impact on the outrageous prices we are paying >> >for gas and the oil companies are laughing throughout their board rooms. >> >Starting April 11th we will strategically target the BIG oil companies >> >for ONE WEEK. Please do not buy gas at the stations on the following >> dates >> >listed below: >> >CHEVRON----------------------------------April 18th through April 25th >> >EXON-------------------------------------April 25th through May 2nd >> >SHELL------------------------------------May 2nd through May 9th >> >76---------------------------------------May 9th through May 16th >> >Texaco-----------------------------------May 16th through May 23rd >> >This will work if we all pull together .There is a strong perception >> >in northern California by the oil companies that consumers will pay >> >whatever the market will bear. >> >These weekly boycotts may be required on a continuous basis until the >> >message is clear that the unfair and unjustified high prices will

not

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>> be >> >tolerated by the consumer. >> >Please forward this message to friends, family members, and anyone else >> >who will support this effort via email, fax, word of mouth etc >> >-- >> >Thanks >> >Mike Z >> >Please remove the *** front and back to reply

Hehe. Subtle, I like that in a post. I used to think "if they call petrol gas, what do they call gas?". Then I discovered King of the Hill and realised they don't have gas, they have pro-pain... which is even more confusing. Here, pro-pain costs 200 pounds an hour even if you supply your own whip. Andrew McP

Yeah!!! /me bigs up Ken Nicolson!!!! -------------------- : :>Lay off, we already know how much taxes you spend on gas in Europe, and how :>much you pay. But you evidently don't know anything about the situation in :>the states, otherwise you would be supporting this gas-out. : :No, it's just that WE DON'T ***ING CARE! : :Especially not in rec.auto.sims, where I'm reading this, as "gas" (we :call it petrol, BTW) only costs a mouse-click per gallon. : :GAS-OUT sounds like a mass tyre (not tire) deflation exercise to us. :Or some sort of farting-based work-out. : :>Floyd Rogers : :Ken

None of these "gas out" ideas will work. I know why you think they will. If a day's worth of gas were truly not sold, the oil companies would most definitely feel the impact. They would feel this impact because they have such low profit margins. However, without severe behaviour modification by the "gas out" participants, the oil companies will not lose out on a day's worth of gasoline sales. This is because on a gas out day, people will consume the same amount of gasoline they do on any other day. If they would have bought gasoline on "gas out" day, they will either have to plan ahead and buy gas the day before or put it off until the day after "gas out". The sum of gasoline purchases will not change, and one day isn't enough to significantly affect inventories. So, the net effect to the oil companies: NOTHING. And about this idea of boycotting one oil producer per week. The same kind of logic could apply to this. Let's say there are 5 producers targeted. One week every five, that company isn't selling squat. But the other four are taking up the slack. If you regularly go to Exxon, but it's on the no-no list and you run out of gas, you'll go to another station. The banned business will be divided into roughly 4 equal parts, each of the oil companies picking up that business. So, each company loses a week's business, but for those other four weeks, they are getting 1/4 of another co.'s business. 1/4 times 4 weeks equals one weeks worth of business to make up for the business lost. Again, net effect? NOTHING. But it's not that simple. Oil refining is one of the most capital-intensive businesses around. It costs an absolute shitload of money to build an oil refinery, and an absolute shitload of money to find and extract oil to supply these refineries. If a law firm gets a temporary rush of business, the workers can put in longer hours to do the extra work. This can't happen at a refinery. Because the refining equipment costs so much, the absolute minimum is installed. Oil companies can only process as much as the refineries are designed for. Refineries would have to boost their capacity by 25% to produce the same amount of gasoline (on a yearly basis). If the capital costs go up 25% to produce a unit of gasoline, guess what else will rise about 25%. DING DING! That's right! Prices! That's probably not the result we were looking for. Sure, they could just upsize inventory space, too, which would not be as expensive, but it would still force up prices because storage of petrochemicals is expensive due to inert blanketing or floating roof equipment, equipment for recovering solvent vapors, chances of spills and fires, and environmental regulations. STILL THINK YOU ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF? Cash in! Start your own oil company and get in on these outrageous profits they are making. You can charge less and still make a big profit. You will be everyone's hero. People will buy gas from you exclusively. Take those profits, build more refineries, more gas stations and go national! Don't have the fifty million dollars to build a small refinery you say? Court investors. Investors are always looking for someone who has an idea for a fast-growing company. Why won't this work? Because it has already been done before by companies like Exxon, BP, Conoco, etc. Oil companies only have profit margins of around 5% of income. It is a very competitive business. If the companies were all charging outrageous amounts, one of the companies would get the great idea of stealing away business from the others by lowering prices. And that's what does happen. You don't believe that they only make around 5% profit? When I was looking for a job with my chemical engineering degree, I considered getting a job with Exxon. I decided against it (even though they were paying a LOT to new employees) because between 1986 and 1996 (I think) they had laid off half of their workforce. The industry is so competitive that their workforce often has to be cut so that the business doesn't go bankrupt, even during mild cyclical swings. So how much of their price could oil companies cut? At most 5%, and at that level, they would deteriorate because no one would invest in them (no profit, no reason to invest). HOW TO CUT GAS COSTS? 1) Easy. Buy a car with better mileage. 2) Lobby for lower gas taxes. If I have it right, the average tax per gallon of gas in the US is $0.38. So, for a $1.15 gallon of gas, less than 4 cents is profit ( [1.15-0.38]*0.05 ), but $0.38 is tax. If those taxes were alleviated, gas would be only 77 cents per gallon. 3) Don't drive so much. These "gas out" days or weeks would work if you would cut out the driving you had scheduled for a day (or week) AND not reschedule it. For that to work, you have to CUT net miles per year. That would not only cause extra surplus, forcing refineries to cut into their $0.04/gallon profit, but cause you to buy less gasoline.

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>:Ok folks I just got this in E-Mail today, and this seems like a more viable >:method. At least one company a week WILL feel our wrath. >: >: >: If you haven't heard, April 30th has been targeted as a one day >:event to stay away from all gas stations. THIS WILL NOT WORK! >:One day will not make an impact on the outrageous prices we are paying >:for gas and the oil companies are laughing throughout their board rooms. >:Starting April 11th we will strategically target the BIG oil companies >:for ONE WEEK. Please do not buy gas at the stations on the following >dates >:listed below: >: >:CHEVRON----------------------------------April 18th through April 25th >:EXON-------------------------------------April 25th through May 2nd >:SHELL------------------------------------May 2nd through May 9th >:76---------------------------------------May 9th through May 16th >:Texaco-----------------------------------May 16th through May 23rd >: >:This will work if we all pull together .There is a strong perception >:in northern California by the oil companies that consumers will pay >:whatever the market will bear. >:These weekly boycotts may be required on a continuous basis until the >:message is clear that the unfair and unjustified high prices will not >be >:tolerated by the consumer. >:Please forward this message to friends, family members, and anyone else >:who will support this effort via email, fax, word of mouth etc >: >:-- >:Thanks >:Mike Z >: >:Please remove the *** front and back to reply >: >: >:

Hey, what a great Idea! Unfortunately, even if I did have the money to do so, I still could not charge what I wanted because crude supply is regulated by the oil cartels. We remember supply and demand don't we? In the end, we are beholden to an ancient technology and unreasonable prices because of governmentally subsidized monopolies. Monopolies by the way that have no problem killing off native peoples if they don't want to give up the land they live on (Chevron in Nigeria for example). Another interesting factoid. Traffic in Los Angeles has been greatly reduced for the past month as a result of higher fuel prices. So, no gas out is needed. The market is not bearing these current prices. Many people are driving less and carpoooling more. Hey, if that is the result lets see gas go to 4 bucks a gallon!

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> > STILL THINK YOU ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF? > > Cash in! Start your own oil company and get in on these outrageous > > profits they are making. You can charge less and still make a big > > profit. You will be everyone's hero. People will buy gas from you > > exclusively. Take those profits, build more refineries, more gas > > stations and go national! > Hey, what a great Idea! Unfortunately, even if I did have the money to > do so, I still could not charge what I wanted because crude supply is > regulated by the oil cartels. We remember supply and demand don't we? In > the end, we are beholden to an ancient technology and unreasonable > prices because of governmentally subsidized monopolies. Monopolies by > the way that have no problem killing off native peoples if they don't > want to give up the land they live on (Chevron in Nigeria for example). > Another interesting factoid. Traffic in Los Angeles has been greatly > reduced for the past month as a result of higher fuel prices. So, no gas > out is needed. The market is not bearing these current prices. Many > people are driving less and carpoooling more. Hey, if that is the result > lets see gas go to 4 bucks a gallon!

----- Original Message ----- Newsgroups: alt.autos.audi,alt.autos.bmw,alt.autos.porsche,alt.autos.porsche.911,alt.aut os.turbocharged,rec.autos.simulators Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 8:15 AM Subject: Re: People who think GAS OUT will work are IDIOTS snip

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> Hey, what a great Idea! Unfortunately, even if I did have the money to > do so, I still could not charge what I wanted because crude supply is > regulated by the oil cartels. We remember supply and demand don't we? In > the end, we are beholden to an ancient technology and unreasonable > prices because of governmentally subsidized monopolies. Monopolies by > the way that have no problem killing off native peoples if they don't > want to give up the land they live on (Chevron in Nigeria for example).

Oh, brother, another brainless socialist in our midst... > Another interesting factoid. Traffic in Los Angeles has been greatly > reduced for the past month as a result of higher fuel prices. So, no gas > out is needed. The market is not bearing these current prices. Many > people are driving less and carpoooling more. Hey, if that is the result > lets see gas go to 4 bucks a gallon! Whoo hoo! 4 bucks a gallon!! Whoo hoo! Then maybe we could s***ALL the cars, and be 47 minutes late for work every day because of "government regulated" buslines! Please, take your anti-car, socialist-collectivist ***out of here. I like my car, I like to drive, and I hate being at the mercy of some poorly designed public transit system, rife with inebreates, transients, and the Great Unwashed. Nick Horianopoulos

It's over $5 a gallon here and getting dearer :-(...... -- Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-) Web : [link lost in import] - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!

I thought the gasoline retailers are the ones with a slim profit margin and not the oil companies. I guess no one's seen the massive Mobil complex here in ***ia or any of the other oil company's plush accomodations.

> I thought the gasoline retailers are the ones with a slim profit margin and > not the oil companies. I guess no one's seen the massive Mobil complex > here in ***ia or any of the other oil company's plush accomodations. Slim profit margins has nothing to do with profitability. Walmart has incredibly thin margins. -- Cheers...Craig --- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain - Schiller

yep... its about volume people... :) >> I thought the gasoline retailers are the ones with a slim profit margin and

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>> not the oil companies. I guess no one's seen the massive Mobil complex >> here in ***ia or any of the other oil company's plush accomodations. >Slim profit margins has nothing to do with profitability. Walmart has >incredibly thin margins. >-- >Cheers...Craig >--- >Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, >and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein >Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre >Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain - Schiller

I still argue that oil companies enjoy a bit more profit margin than their spin doctors would lead us to believe. Stupid people quote others because they themselves cannot create.

>Stupid people quote others because they themselves cannot create. That's pretty good.Where's that quote from? Regards, Gordon

And other people speculate about things, instead of looking for hard evidence.