SCGT - oversteer overdone?

I scrape the wall, oversteer. I slightly lock the brakes, oversteer. Someone taps me from behind, you guessed it, oversteer. What gives? And it's always terminal; countersteering is useless. I end up facing the wrong way every time. I got better and avoided oversteering altogether, but I still don't understand why they're so unrecoverable. It feels like canned, NFS3 style oversteering. Any tips/opinions?

Well , I'm not sure it's any help but if anything I thought most of the cars were well balanced. Of course that was before I returned it. All the cars seemed like they were on rails compared to GPL. Get the newest patches, they may help. JM

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> I scrape the wall, oversteer. I slightly lock the brakes, oversteer. Someone > taps me from behind, you guessed it, oversteer. What gives? And it's always > terminal; countersteering is useless. I end up facing the wrong way every > time. I got better and avoided oversteering altogether, but I still don't > understand why they're so unrecoverable. It feels like canned, NFS3 style > oversteering. > Any tips/opinions?

The oversteer is recoverable, you may be countersteering too much and getting the car into what bike guys would call a tank slapper, which I have done both in real cars and with SCGT. Locking the brakes will induce either understeer if you lockem before turing and will induce oversteer if you are turning. I think the game does not lock all wheels at one time so any movement will create oversteer. The brakes seem a bit on the sensitive side with full sim mode. It just takes some time to get used to. Dave > > I scrape the wall, oversteer. I slightly lock the brakes, oversteer. Someone > > taps me from behind, you guessed it, oversteer. What gives? And it's always > > terminal; countersteering is useless. I end up facing the wrong way every > > time. I got better and avoided oversteering altogether, but I still don't > > understand why they're so unrecoverable. It feels like canned, NFS3 style > > oversteering. > > Any tips/opinions?

Do you have your car setup to stiff in the rear? Are you flooring the throttle when you are turning hard and starting to slide? Do you have soft tires in front and hard tires in the rear? If you have made any of the above changes or numerous others your car could now be setup to oversteer and be unbalanced. Are you also getting good frame rate? Slow frame rate can make it difficult to control a car. - John

Got the patch, used the patch. And they are STILL on rails. I can get away with things that GPL would laugh in my face at.

Hate to tell you this revved but I don't suffer from "highlander syndrome". I want something else to drive so bad I can barely stand it. SCGT is a great sim with fantastic lighting at night, rain, great tracks and cars. I won't get into what I don't like but you must know that part of my decision on what to buy is based on things totally outside the game. GPL in fact imo could really be enhanced, scgt and superbike both have great features. I will start another post on this subject. Oh, btw I got to drive it with the editor, still ain't buying it. JM

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> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:59:29 GMT, > >On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:46:30 -0500, > >>> John, with the advanced options editor, they aren't on rails anymore... :) > >>> You may want to look at it again. > >>Got the patch, used the patch. And they are STILL on rails. I can get away > >>with things that GPL would laugh in my face at. > >I don't think you did. > >The Advanced Options Editor is NOT a patch, sorry. > One other thing, -no one- said it had a physics model as complex as GPL. > I like lots of sims. I am not a victim of the 'Highlander Syndrome'. > That's the syndrome that says 'There can only be one sim'. > Life would be pretty boring for me, if that were the case. > Enjoy your sim. > -- > // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

I an curious if you can in run in either full sim or original physics? in other words if I don't prefer the full sim mode, do I need to uninstall SCGT do reset it back to origional? Thanks > On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:46:30 -0500, > >> John, with the advanced options editor, they aren't on rails anymore... :) > >> You may want to look at it again. > >Got the patch, used the patch. And they are STILL on rails. I can get away

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> >with things that GPL would laugh in my face at. > I don't think you did. > The Advanced Options Editor is NOT a patch, sorry. > -- > // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

Ok, to be exact is a small program that you unzip into the base directory of SCGT. You run it and it gives you three small dropdown boxes that you can then select simulation, ordinary, 60s, or simple modes of driving, slick grass, etc. And before you get your shorts in a bind. I never said it had to be as complex as GPL...and in fact I enjoy it, but there are so many things that make it UNENJOYABLE. Why even bother with practice if there are no time sheets that allow me to examine the speeds I've been running? Do I need to pause every time across the line and jot down my times so I can see if I'm running good consistant lappings? Where the hell are my tire temps? And tire wear?! Are they even modeled? Heck, even SBK did this much. Fuel mixtures? Mms....damn, why can't I turn down my fuel mixture while running away with the race? Multiplayer for 6 people? hahaha. Ok, standard is 8 at the VERY least....and no way is this game as complex as GPL so there is no excuse for it to be able to only handle 6 players on a dedicated LAN. AI may be slow or inconsistant but I will give it that they are racey and are fun to bump and grind with. However, I do find the "no visible" damage a bit disconcerting because I don't really know HOW much damage has been done. Is it just a dent or a slightly warped side panel? Or did I mangle the panel up badly? Why the heck am I forced to assign BOTH keyboard buttons and joystick/wheel functions to each control in the game? Never seen that before, ever. Sure many of game like flight sims or mech style games, etc allow you to assign multiple buttons/joysticks/etc to controls...but you aren't forced to have both. Anyways, I have it...I'm not going to return it because its a decent little game to skitter a Porsche around in and take a break from the more demanding GPL. But yes, I enjoy the satisfaction of slowly mastering GPL very much (and no, I don't think GPL is prefect either...but its still very satisfying).

Well then, it is at least partially accurate. Check out the g-forces these cars can pull compared to a late 60's F1 bias-ply-shod machine like we have in GPL. I agree that SCGT is no where near as sophisticated as GPL, but the cars should drive very differently! Marc.

No, just run the advanced editor again and you can set it back to the original physics. Honestly, I think you'd much more prefer the simulation mode. It will handle more like a real car than a toy...but its not GPL either, so don't be daunted by it. > I an curious if you can in run in either full sim or original physics? in > other words if I don't prefer the full sim mode, do I need to uninstall SCGT

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> do reset it back to origional? > Thanks > > On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:46:30 -0500, > > >> John, with the advanced options editor, they aren't on rails

anymore...

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> :) > > >> You may want to look at it again. > > >Got the patch, used the patch. And they are STILL on rails. I can get > away > > >with things that GPL would laugh in my face at. > > I don't think you did. > > The Advanced Options Editor is NOT a patch, sorry. > > -- > > // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:02:34 -0500, "Chris Schletter" > Why even bother with practice if there are no time >sheets that allow me to examine the speeds I've been running? In the left hand corner it shows you your fastest time, your current time, and the about of difference between your best time and your last lap. Tire wear and gas usage IS modeled. No, tire temps are not. It does.. Its called a gas pedal. Slow down. What other sim models fuel mixtures? None that I have seen do. They stated right from the get go that this wasNOT a multi-player sim. I for one am happy to see a company still stick with single play games. When was the last time you played GPL without clock smashes or warps? I had a 500kps cable modem and I still hand lag. While I agree visable dmage should have been modeled, it does tell you that you have taken damage.. And if you can't tell by the change in performance that the car is damaged then you need a new hobby. You don't have to. When it asks for a keyboard input just hit the escape key (ESC) then put in a joystick function. It will not show a keyboard input for the control. And your not.. See above.

Gunslinger... not to refute your points, since I don't have the game, but in response to the SNIP below, ICR2 from Papy/Sierra did allow fuel mixture to be set, just like in a real CART race. It worked pretty well, and allowed your driving style to remain very very similar while taking just enough power away to help the milage. --Dave

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> >Fuel mixtures? Mms....damn, why can't I turn down my fuel mixture while running > >away with the race? > It does.. Its called a gas pedal. > Slow down. > What other sim models fuel mixtures? > None that I have seen do.

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

> Why even bother with practice if there are no time >sheets that allow me to examine the speeds I've been running? Do I need to >pause every time across the line and jot down my times so I can see if I'm >running good consistant lappings? I don't find this to be a problem. My best time is up there, and every time I cross the S/F line I see how I did relative to my best time. Not only that I get split times at various points around the track, so I can find out whether I've gained or lost time in a certain area of the track. That's one thing that even many *** sims don't provide. Because I look at how I'm doing each lap, throughout the lap and at the S/F line, I get a pretty good idea of how consistently I'm running, and the splits make it easier to focus on areas of the track where I'm losing time. Well, of course we don't know. Tire wear seems there. I've run my tires down far enough to where I distinctly noticed I had a harder time staying on the track. If you're IN the real car you wouldn't necessarily know either. You'd get back on the road and know by how the car felt to drive how much damage you did, and whether or not you could go as fast down the straights. That's how it is here, too. When I see airdam damage on the message board after banging into a wall, I have a pretty good idea I'm in big trouble if I'm at Sebring, where top straightline speed is important. If I get wheel damage, I get back on the track and see if I have any problems steering. If I REALLY can't tell whether I have enough damage to be worth fixing, I stay out another lap and observe the split times. If I'm clearly off the pace, I fix the car (depending upon how much I'm off the pace). Again, that's fairly realistic. Visibility doesn't mean much compared to whether your car handles the same and whether or not you can be competitive. And yes, GPL is ultimately the most fulfilling racing sim we've seen. It's not a game, it's a lifestyle :) Randy Randy Magruder [link lost in import]

On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:02:34 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >And tire wear?! Are they even modeled? Hi Chris, I can't disagree with most of your complaints in that post. However, I thought tire wear was done very well. Take some medium or soft tires, then go pound on a car at the desert track for 15 minutes. If you can't feel your tires going away by the time you get towards the end of the run, I want your secret. Regardless of complaints -- most of which I find nitpicky, and agree with -- I think SCGT is great fun, *almost*. My biggest problem is that the AI needs to be aggressive 100% of the time. I hate the fact that I know every spot on a given track where there is a "catch up" stretch -- the point where I know the AI will slow down drastically, and 90% of my passing gets done. This ruins the otherwise excellent, exciting racing that I've done against the AI. It would be nice to see the AI go all out, flag to flag. It's a problem with Viper, and it's a problem with SCGT -- the AI just gives up in places. Why? Doesn't seem, to me, like it has to be this way. Brett

Um, yes, so? It however does NOT have anywhere the lists all my laps to show how I progressed through the practice period. Take a good look at GPL, ICR2, etc and see that they do this. Never said gas usage wasn't modeled. If you don't model tire temps no since even bothering to put in camber adjustments or heck tire pressure adjustments either. Easy answer, Indycar Racing 2. I believe GP2 did it too. No, actually Gjon stated that it wasn't a internet multiplayer but said that the LAN based multiplayer was very good and its not. Even N2 supports at least 8 players on a LAN and quite well actually. If ISI had done a singleplay game then they should NOT have included any multiplayer at all, even LAN based, and concentrated on making the game better career mode single play. Last time I played GPL w/o clock smashes was the last race of the IGPLC F3 division and unfortunately the last time I've played GPL since I'm waiting for parts on my wheel/pedal. In effect I still MUST assign a keyboard balue to that function, i.e. the ESC key. Just a minor annoynance actually, but something that really should have been thought out better. Actually I am Gunslinger. Minor annoynace however...especially enlight of some of the others.

I got the patch, and it still wipes out unrealistically. I have -never- had a car stop sideways on the road, it will always spin a 180 and you end up facing the wrong way. Every time. When you know the rearend got away, you might as well just let go the controls because nothing will make a difference. Slight oversteer at corner exit is controllable, I'm talking about the actual departures (that I shouldn't be doing in the first place, but at least give me a chance to save it, which it does not i.e. CANNED). The 'slide to CANNED spinout threshold' (like that term?) needs to be increased a bit. Still having fun with this game. Fix the canned spins and add dual axis stick support.

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>On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:56:46 -0600, >>Well , I'm not sure it's any help but if anything I thought most of the cars >>were well balanced. Of course that was before I returned it. All the cars > seemed >>like they were on rails compared to GPL. Get the newest patches, they may > help. >>JM >John, with the advanced options editor, they aren't on rails anymore... :) >You may want to look at it again. >>> I scrape the wall, oversteer. I slightly lock the brakes, oversteer. Someone >>> taps me from behind, you guessed it, oversteer. What gives? And it's always >>> terminal; countersteering is useless. I end up facing the wrong way every >>> time. I got better and avoided oversteering altogether, but I still don't >>> understand why they're so unrecoverable. It feels like canned, NFS3 style >>> oversteering. >>> Any tips/opinions? >-- >// rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

>Gunslinger... not to refute your points, since I don't have the game, >but in response to the SNIP below, ICR2 from Papy/Sierra did allow fuel >mixture to be set, just like in a real CART race. It worked pretty well, >and allowed your driving style to remain very very similar while taking >just enough power away to help the milage. Wasn't it just turbocharger boost that was modeled in ICR2? I don't remember fuel mixture anywhere. Been several months since I've played though so I could be wrong. -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

Not that it really matters, but the ESC key *cancels* that input (no key is assigned). No key assignment is required. Jim

>I got the patch, and it still wipes out unrealistically. I have -never- had a >car stop sideways on the road, it will always spin a 180 and you end up facing >the wrong way. Every time. When you know the rearend got away, you might as >well just let go the controls because nothing will make a difference. Slight >oversteer at corner exit is controllable, I'm talking about the actual >departures (that I shouldn't be doing in the first place, but at least give me >a chance to save it, which it does not i.e. CANNED). The 'slide to CANNED >spinout threshold' (like that term?) needs to be increased a bit. >Still having fun with this game. Fix the canned spins and add dual axis stick >support. I powerslid through almost an entire corner (a GT1 car). I have "caught" oversteer at corner entries too. And, my spinouts do not always leave me 180 degrees around. In short, the spins do *not* seem canned to me at all. SCGT apparently has a problem with *some* dual axis devices. My MS FF wheel is set up as dual axis with no problem. Jim

You should be able to get away with things in SCGT that would send a GPL car into the weeds. For one SCGT cars have downforce and tires that have grip. Also Chassis stiffness on new GT cars is getting close to the chassis stiffness of current formula cars. GPL models old Formula 1 cars with no downforce and tires that have about as much stick as a Michelen passenger car tire with a wear rating of 300. They are completely differnet games, based on completely different types and eras of cars. Dave

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> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:02:34 -0500, "Chris Schletter" > > Why even bother with practice if there are no time > >sheets that allow me to examine the speeds I've been running? > In the left hand corner it shows you your fastest time, your current > time, and the about of difference between your best time and your last > lap. > >Where the hell are my tire temps? And tire wear?! Are they even modeled? > Tire wear and gas usage IS modeled. > No, tire temps are not. > >Fuel mixtures? Mms....damn, why can't I turn down my fuel mixture while running > >away with the race? > It does.. Its called a gas pedal. > Slow down. > What other sim models fuel mixtures? > None that I have seen do. > >Multiplayer for 6 people? hahaha. Ok, standard is 8 at > >the VERY least.... > They stated right from the get go that this wasNOT a multi-player sim. > I for one am happy to see a company still stick with single play > games. > When was the last time you played GPL without clock smashes or warps? > I had a 500kps cable modem and I still hand lag. > > However, I do find the "no visible" damage a > >bit disconcerting because I don't really know HOW much damage has been done. > >Is it just a dent or a slightly warped side panel? Or did I mangle the > >panel up badly? > While I agree visable dmage should have been modeled, it does tell you > that you have taken damage.. And if you can't tell by the change in > performance that the car is damaged then you need a new hobby. > > Why the heck am I forced to assign BOTH keyboard buttons > >and joystick/wheel functions to each control in the game? > You don't have to. When it asks for a keyboard input just hit the > escape key (ESC) then put in a joystick function. It will not show a > keyboard input for the control. > >Sure many of game like flight sims or mech style games, etc > >allow you to assign multiple buttons/joysticks/etc to controls...but you > >aren't forced to have both. > And your not.. See above.

Agreed with all that you said... ICR2 had fuel mixture. But I agree, he should learn how to lift off the gas (just like TEN with Nascar II... sometimes you can beat competition on fuel conservation alone). Philster

SCGT LAN play is awesome - I've run 8 with 8 AI so far, and would like to try more - I don't know where that figure of "6" in the readme came from, but I have yet to see a problem. Have you even tried it?

I actually did try to soften the rear, as well as the rear tires. It did help preventing oversteer, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that when it does oversteer, it will whip a 180 every time and you're facing the wrong way when it stops. Asphalt, grass, sand, makes no difference. I've noticed CPU cars do the same when they spin out. In GPL (not to compare the 2, just an example) if I go too hot into a corner and start to oversteer, I can slightly countersteer it, feather (sometimes mash) the throttle and keep the car straight. I might (usually will) run off the road, but at least I'm still pointing in the correct direction. The same scenario in SCGT will whip the rear around and the car will stop with you facing the wrong way, no matter what I do with the throttle, brakes, or steering.

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>Do you have your car setup to stiff in the rear? Are you flooring the >throttle when you are turning hard and starting to slide? Do you have soft >tires in front and hard tires in the rear? If you have made any of the above >changes or numerous others your car could now be setup to oversteer and be >unbalanced. Are you also getting good frame rate? Slow frame rate can make >it difficult to control a car. >- John >> I scrape the wall, oversteer. I slightly lock the brakes, oversteer. >Someone >> taps me from behind, you guessed it, oversteer. What gives? And it's >always >> terminal; countersteering is useless. I end up facing the wrong way every >> time. I got better and avoided oversteering altogether, but I still don't >> understand why they're so unrecoverable. It feels like canned, NFS3 style >> oversteering. >> Any tips/opinions?

One of the things I remember drivers commenting about at the introduction of radial tires into F1 with Michelin in the late 1970s was that radials, while offering better grip, also broke away much more quickly. Control was more at knife-edge. (Indeed, I believe the long gap between the availability of radials and their use in F1 was due to this factor. Many thought radials simply weren't suited for racing.) So while, yes, the SCGT cars have big tires, big downforce, big grip, it is in fact reasonble that they might get away from the driver a bit quicker too.

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> You should be able to get away with things in SCGT that would send a GPL > car into the weeds. For one SCGT cars have downforce and tires that have > grip. Also Chassis stiffness on new GT cars is getting close to the > chassis stiffness of current formula cars. GPL models old Formula 1 cars > with no downforce and tires that have about as much stick as a Michelen > passenger car tire with a wear rating of 300. They are completely > differnet games, based on completely different types and eras of cars. > Dave > > > John, with the advanced options editor, they aren't on rails

anymore... > :) > > > You may want to look at it again. > > Got the patch, used the patch. And they are STILL on rails. I can get > away > > with things that GPL would laugh in my face at.

Yep, If your framerate is very low, you will find that one of it's side effects is oversteer. What happens is that because you're missing so many frames per second, you're turning the wheel too far to correct the corner that *you haven't been through yet*, however the game sees you as already turning but the frame rate hasn't told you that yet! This may or may not be the problem, but I've experienced it before, and that may be your answer. The other thing is to set your rear weight forward, and lower your rear tire pressures and springs. Both of these will counterset oversteer. I've had very good control of the vehicles, they seem to respond very well to setup options, and I've been able to correct some pretty hairy slides! ;] Try setting your visual options down and see if that improves it any, and try running with fewer cars. Cheers! ??Jan Kohl?? **The Pits Performance Team** Computer Systems Programmer USAF Air-Ground Operations School Hurlburt Field, FL Castle Graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com/ The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/ >I scrape the wall, oversteer. I slightly lock the brakes, oversteer. Someone >taps me from behind, you guessed it, oversteer. What gives? And it's always >terminal; countersteering is useless. I end up facing the wrong way every >time. I got better and avoided oversteering altogether, but I still don't >understand why they're so unrecoverable. It feels like canned, NFS3 style >oversteering. >Any tips/opinions?

Actually, I have been able to catch the car a couple times after a nearly lost spin. It isn't easy, but it is possible. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ---------== Over 72,000 Groups, Plus Dedicated Binaries Servers ==--------

> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:02:34 -0500, "Chris Schletter" > >And tire wear?! Are they even modeled? If you drive around long enough wearing out your tires it will eventually tell you "worn tires" in the same location as the other damage notifications. I don't know if you can actully blow the tire or not..I may try to do that tonight just for curiousity sake. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ---------== Over 72,000 Groups, Plus Dedicated Binaries Servers ==--------

Okay first off the older GP cars had very high slip angles so it let you get the car out of shape and get the car back. Modern racing slicks are not forgiving to when you supass their adhesion limit. My Solo ll car runs Goodyear Eagle 20x9.5x13 in a 240 compound and they have great grip to the limit of adhesion. when it goes it goes in a big way either understeer or oversteer. Also in the game I have been able to recover from some pretty wild moments when the rear end started kicking out, a few times I got into a tank slapper but recovered. If I have spun the car it usually has not been a 180. I don't feel the spins are canned since I have been able to get on the gas or brake and make car rotate and recover faster, and sometimes make it spin more. I do use the advanced patch/editor(or what ever it is). After getting used to it, it seems easy to actually drive the car due to being able to hang the rear end out a bit and get the car back, due to less downforce car now has. I am sorry you are not getting the same results I am. Dave

Fact is they will when you go past the adhesion limit. My solo ll car with slicks is wild due to this. Dave

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>I actually did try to soften the rear, as well as the rear tires. It did help >preventing oversteer, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that when it >does oversteer, it will whip a 180 every time and you're facing the wrong way >when it stops. Asphalt, grass, sand, makes no difference. I've noticed CPU >cars do the same when they spin out. >In GPL (not to compare the 2, just an example) if I go too hot into a corner >and start to oversteer, I can slightly countersteer it, feather (sometimes >mash) the throttle and keep the car straight. I might (usually will) run off >the road, but at least I'm still pointing in the correct direction. The same >scenario in SCGT will whip the rear around and the car will stop with you >facing the wrong way, no matter what I do with the throttle, brakes, or >steering.

I can't understand what the problem is.. Several times I have felt myself "slipping" into a spin and half counter steered very slightly, left of the gas and I usually "whip" back into a straight position. I think the problem is that your used to GPL's very apparent slip feeling. In SCGT the cues that your going to slip are very subtle because, like Fly-by-waire aircraft, 1980- 1990 era race cars are made to race on the edge os stability, so going from stable to un-stable is a very fine line. Try next time to feel the slipping.. Take the car out and practice actual spins and sooner or later you will begin to recognize the slip and counter it before it gets uncontrollable. The only time I spin now is when I KNOW I am pushing too hard.. I see a car in front of me that I just want to get in front, I take a risk, push the car too hard and I lose. Some pointers.. 1) Don't slam the brakes.. Any car unless it has ABS is going to slide and start to spin if your trying to go from 150 to 0 in 5 seconds.. 2) Don't Slam the Gas. Slamming the gas will actually give you less traction. GO into the grass. Slam the gas... You can do doughnuts all day long. Barley accelerate.. You'll roll right out the grass. 3) Be smooth with the wheel. The first thing they taught us in police driving school was to not re-act to a bad situation. Say huh? Example.. A lot of people die or are seriously injured in car accidents every year because they drive the left side of the tires off the orad onto the dirt.. The person then panics and whips the wheel back the other way.. The car bounces back onto the road.. the driver has lost control.. and the car swerves into oncoming traffic. If you are going into a bad situtation.. Like haeding for a wall and your wheels are gripping to turn the car away from the wall, don't fight the car.. ***it where it counts.. Apply very little gas.. and pump the brakes... Your going to hit the wall.. but maybe you can slow the car down enough to keep it from damaging the car. But when your fighting the wheel trying to turn the car away from the danger you loose precious seconds trying to do something the car hasn't got time to do. If you watch NASCAR races you'll see what I mean. How many times in a wreck do you see the drivers slam on the brakes? Not very often... Most of the time they try to "drive out the wreck". -- -Gunslinger-

Well oversteer is saveable. I was going thru the esses at Road Atlanta and got into a lurid slide and finally got out of it. It was amazing since I still ran a 1:07 that lap too, all at full sim mode. The car does really respond to the setups like Jan said. Dave

On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:02:34 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >And before you get your shorts in a bind. I never said it had to be as >complex as GPL...and in fact I enjoy it, but there are so many things that >make it UNENJOYABLE. There are, but they're not too bad. Not at all - on every lap the HUD shows "-0.02" (or whatever) at various intervals, so I always know not only if my laptimes are consistent, but at what point I am losing the time. I find it one of the best racers in that regard. Tire wear is modelled - press "u" while driving. Tire temps was a bit of an oversight, slightly difficult to adjust pressures and camber without them (or any telemetry for that matter). Watch your top speed or your laptimes, they tell you very clearly how badly damaged the car is in the only way that matters - how many seconds slower per lap you are. It would be nice to see it, but it's not a big deal - you can't see your air-dam while you're driving your car anyway. It is nice - SCGT is slowly growing on me, but I expect it to be much better once patched and made more realistic by the many talented people out there. The car feels good to drive but too easy - 70mph around the hairpins? Cheers! John

I forget what the key press is but there is a key that will show while you are racing what percentage of your tire is left. I think it is "u" but I could be wrong. - John > > Why even bother with practice if there are no time > >sheets that allow me to examine the speeds I've been running? Do I need to > >pause every time across the line and jot down my times so I can see if I'm

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> >running good consistant lappings? > I don't find this to be a problem. My best time is up there, and > every time I cross the S/F line I see how I did relative to my best > time. Not only that I get split times at various points around the > track, so I can find out whether I've gained or lost time in a certain > area of the track. That's one thing that even many *** sims > don't provide. Because I look at how I'm doing each lap, throughout > the lap and at the S/F line, I get a pretty good idea of how > consistently I'm running, and the splits make it easier to focus on > areas of the track where I'm losing time. > > Where the hell are my tire temps? And tire wear?! Are they even

modeled? > Well, of course we don't know. Tire wear seems there. I've run my > tires down far enough to where I distinctly noticed I had a harder > time staying on the track. > > However, I do find the "no visible" damage a > >bit disconcerting because I don't really know HOW much damage has been done.

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> >Is it just a dent or a slightly warped side panel? Or did I mangle the > >panel up badly? > If you're IN the real car you wouldn't necessarily know either. You'd > get back on the road and know by how the car felt to drive how much > damage you did, and whether or not you could go as fast down the > straights. That's how it is here, too. When I see airdam damage on > the message board after banging into a wall, I have a pretty good idea > I'm in big trouble if I'm at Sebring, where top straightline speed is > important. If I get wheel damage, I get back on the track and see if > I have any problems steering. If I REALLY can't tell whether I have > enough damage to be worth fixing, I stay out another lap and observe > the split times. If I'm clearly off the pace, I fix the car > (depending upon how much I'm off the pace). Again, that's fairly > realistic. Visibility doesn't mean much compared to whether your car > handles the same and whether or not you can be competitive. > And yes, GPL is ultimately the most fulfilling racing sim we've seen. > It's not a game, it's a lifestyle :) > Randy > Randy Magruder > [link lost in import]

Ok, this makes more sense then. I guess I am used to the high slip angles from GPL and that I'm not used to the small warning from the modern slicks. I actually did recover from one yesterday and was quite proud of myself. The framerate might be a factor, since I have a 266/V3 here at work and I run with quite a large grid. I do have a steering wheel (Interact FF V4). The V4 itself also might be a problem, since the gas/brake acts delayed (I have given up playing GPL at work because it isn't possible without accurate gas/brake controls) - separate thread altogether. At home I have a 450/TNT but the dual joystick problem I'm experiencing is keeping me from playing it. Thanks for all the help folks.

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>Okay first off the older GP cars had very high slip angles so it let you >get the car out of shape and get the car back. Modern racing slicks are >not forgiving to when you supass their adhesion limit. My Solo ll car runs >Goodyear Eagle 20x9.5x13 in a 240 compound and they have great grip to the >limit of adhesion. when it goes it goes in a big way either understeer or >oversteer. Also in the game I have been able to recover from some pretty >wild moments when the rear end started kicking out, a few times I got into >a tank slapper but recovered. If I have spun the car it usually has not >been a 180. I don't feel the spins are canned since I have been able to >get on the gas or brake and make car rotate and recover faster, and >sometimes make it spin more. I do use the advanced patch/editor(or what >ever it is). After getting used to it, it seems easy to actually drive the >car due to being able to hang the rear end out a bit and get the car back, >due to less downforce car now has. >I am sorry you are not getting the same results I am. >Dave

I'm waiting Sounds like you need to program the keys on account of your wheel done broke :-( Fool Xtent

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>> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:02:34 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >> > Why even bother with practice if there are no time >> >sheets that allow me to examine the speeds I've been running? >> In the left hand corner it shows you your fastest time, your current >> time, and the about of difference between your best time and your last >> lap. >> >Where the hell are my tire temps? And tire wear?! Are they even modeled? >> Tire wear and gas usage IS modeled. >> No, tire temps are not. >> >Fuel mixtures? Mms....damn, why can't I turn down my fuel mixture while running >> >away with the race? >> It does.. Its called a gas pedal. >> Slow down. >> What other sim models fuel mixtures? >> None that I have seen do. >> >Multiplayer for 6 people? hahaha. Ok, standard is 8 at >> >the VERY least.... >> They stated right from the get go that this wasNOT a multi-player sim. >> I for one am happy to see a company still stick with single play >> games. >> When was the last time you played GPL without clock smashes or warps? >> I had a 500kps cable modem and I still hand lag. >> > However, I do find the "no visible" damage a >> >bit disconcerting because I don't really know HOW much damage has been done. >> >Is it just a dent or a slightly warped side panel? Or did I mangle the >> >panel up badly? >> While I agree visable dmage should have been modeled, it does tell you >> that you have taken damage.. And if you can't tell by the change in >> performance that the car is damaged then you need a new hobby. >> > Why the heck am I forced to assign BOTH keyboard buttons >> >and joystick/wheel functions to each control in the game? >> You don't have to. When it asks for a keyboard input just hit the >> escape key (ESC) then put in a joystick function. It will not show a >> keyboard input for the control. >> >Sure many of game like flight sims or mech style games, etc >> >allow you to assign multiple buttons/joysticks/etc to controls...but you >> >aren't forced to have both. >> And your not.. See above. >Agreed with all that you said... ICR2 had fuel mixture. But I agree, he >should learn how to lift off the gas (just like TEN with Nascar II... >sometimes you can beat competition on fuel conservation alone). >Philster

Short shifting conserves gas real well :-) Fool Xtent