New Nurbegring record by a road car...

This is not entirelly "simulator" oriented, but for anyone who is fascinated by the the Nurbegring track in GPL (a track by which all cars are judged). A new fastest lap has been posted.... mind you it's about 40 seconds quicker than I've managed in GPL and I dount anyone will be able to match this (I think just under 8 minutes seems to be the "ceiling". Anyway, here's the press release: ----------------------------- Porsche 911 GT3 A new lap record at Nrburgring. The first production car to lap the northern circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 GT3 takes 7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real professional. ----------------------------- Regards, David Mocnay

Did these 70's races at the Ring ever get TV coverage? I have some video reviews of some 70's seasons but they never seem to show much of the Nurburgring round - too many cameras required? - Michael

On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:48:43 -0400, Christopher Rossie

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>In case anyone doesn't know the F1 "record" there in practice was 6:58.6 >by Niki Lauda, Ferrari, in 1975 (and I was there, got the announcement on audio >tape too!) >This is not entirelly "simulator" oriented, but for anyone who is fascinated >by the the Nurbegring track in GPL (a track by which all cars are judged). >A new fastest lap has been posted.... mind you it's about 40 seconds >quicker than I've managed in GPL and I dount anyone will be able to match this >(I think just under 8 minutes seems to be the "ceiling". Anyway, here's >the press release: >Porsche 911 GT3 >A new lap record at Nuerburgring. The first production car to lap >the northern >circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 >GT3 takes >7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real >professional.

Attention! Your mileage does vary. The track lenghts and conditions are different. GPL is based on the 22.8km track like in 1967, bumpy and narrow. After the F1 boycotted the Ring in 1970 and went to Hockenheim for the German GP, the circuit was modified in 1970/71, so Lauda did his 6:58 lap on track that was less bumpy, a little wider and a little safer than in GPL (plus, he had 500hp, slicks and wings). Since the 1980s, the Nordschleife is 2km shorter, only 20.8km, because the Start-Finish-Loop was demolished and replaced by the new 4.5km GP track. The modern 20.8km Nordschleife now turns right just after the Hohenrain chicane and re-joins directly past the former Nordkurve to Hatzenbach. For these 20.8km, the german car magazine "Sportauto" AFAIR reported a 7:57 for a 600hp 911 Turbo and 7:49 for a 360hp 911 SuperCup (similar to GT3) with racing tyres. The motorcycle record is also 7:49. For touring car racing (24hours and VLN), the 25km of Nordschleife+ full GP track, or 23.8km of Nordschleife + shortened GP track are used. For the 23.8km VLN track, cars like Viper GTS, Porsche 935 and former DTM-cars Mercedes 190E and Opel Calibra do practice laps around 8:30, sometimes in less than 8:20. See http://www.nuerburgring.de/frame/wige_events_vln_body.html and http://www.vln.home.pages.de -- Matthias Flatt

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> ----------------------------- > Porsche 911 GT3 > A new lap record at Nrburgring. The first production car to lap the northern > circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 GT3 takes > 7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real > professional. > -----------------------------

I was going to post the exact same thing, but David beat me to it. However, we've got to consider whether this was the same track as the one we "drive" in GPL. If so, then damn, that Porsche driver was good! However, isn't the GT3 a specialized car like the Mercedes CLK-GTR? That's also a production car...though modified just a tad for street driving. Nathan

>This is not entirelly "simulator" oriented, but for anyone who is fascinated >by the the Nurbegring track in GPL (a track by which all cars are judged). A >new fastest lap has been posted.... mind you it's about 40 seconds quicker >than I've managed in GPL and I dount anyone will be able to match this (I >think just under 8 minutes seems to be the "ceiling". Anyway, here's the press >release: >----------------------------- >Porsche 911 GT3 >A new lap record at Nrburgring. The first production car to lap the northern >circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 GT3 takes >7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real >professional. >----------------------------- >Regards, >David Mocnay I was reading today's Autocar during lunch and although I haven't got it here to check I'm pretty sure they said the new Skyline GTR Vspec has done it in 7:55 Andy.

I might be talking rubbish (has been known) but I think that the crash was at the fast Bergwerk corner. Andy.

I read just recently that the old shape (R33) Nissan GT-R was the first production car to break 8 min around the old Nurburgring. In 1995? The new R34 model is supposed to be around half a minute quicker around the circuit than the old model. -- Rob. >This is not entirelly "simulator" oriented, but for anyone who is fascinated >by the the Nurbegring track in GPL (a track by which all cars are judged). A >new fastest lap has been posted.... mind you it's about 40 seconds quicker >than I've managed in GPL and I dount anyone will be able to match this (I >think just under 8 minutes seems to be the "ceiling". Anyway, here's the press >release: >----------------------------- >Porsche 911 GT3 >A new lap record at Nrburgring. The first production car to lap the northern >circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 GT3 takes >7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real >professional. >----------------------------- >Regards, >David Mocnay

That's not all. The all time best lap at Nurbugring is by a Porsche 936 (or something like that ... it's a LeMans car from early 80s). They managed something like 6:30!! (I can't remembe the exact time .. but it was fast). Regards, David Mocnay

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><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> ><html> >In case anyone doesn't know the F1 "record" there in practice was 6:58.6 >by Niki ><br>Lauda, Ferrari, in 1975 (and I was there, got the announcement on audio >tape too!) ><br>Chris ><blockquote TYPE=CITE>This is not entirelly "simulator" oriented, but for >anyone who is fascinated ><br>by the the Nurbegring track in GPL (a track by which all cars are judged). >A ><br>new fastest lap has been posted.... mind you it's about 40 seconds >quicker ><br>than I've managed in GPL and I dount anyone will be able to match this >(I ><br>think just under 8 minutes seems to be the "ceiling". Anyway, here's >the press ><br>release: ><br>----------------------------- ><br>Porsche 911 GT3 ><br>A new lap record at N&uuml;rburgring. The first production car to lap >the northern ><br>circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 >GT3 takes ><br>7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real ><br>professional. ><br>----------------------------- ><p>Regards, ><br>David Mocnay</blockquote> ></html>

Hi Nathan, Porsche claim that it is the "old" track. Also, GT3 is nothing like the Mercedes CLK-GTR ... you'r thinking of GT1. GT3 is your basic 911 will about 150Kg saving, 275Kw (non turbo 3.6), bigger breaks (320mm) and more "race tuned" suspension. Go to www.porsche.com to read about the car as well as their Nurbugring" claim. Anyway, I'm very imressed. Just the other day I read an article where a couple of test drivers had a Caterham7, RUF911 and Nissan GTR (this was like 3 years ago). They went to Nurbugring for a few days to see if they can break the record. They got 8:07 in the Caterham (Lotus7 replica), while the RUF911 was a reall "beast" but mamaged about 8:16. The Nissan GTR did about 8:25 but was a dream to drive an "alegedly" anyone in Nissan GTR can get that time. I think it all caim about with them disputing Nissans claim that "Nissan GTR can do Nurbugring in less than 8 minutes". Regards, David Mocnay

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>> ----------------------------- >> Porsche 911 GT3 >> A new lap record at Nrburgring. The first production car to lap the northern >> circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 GT3 takes >> 7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real >> professional. >> ----------------------------- >I was going to post the exact same thing, but David beat me to it. >However, we've got to consider whether this was the same track as the one >we "drive" in GPL. If so, then damn, that Porsche driver was good! >However, isn't the GT3 a specialized car like the Mercedes CLK-GTR? >That's also a production car...though modified just a tad for street driving. >Nathan

Yeah, I read the same "crock" in car magazines. Though, few testdrives have disproven "nissan's claim" .. they had "that" Nissan GTR there for a couple of days. They knew the track backwards and the best they could do is 8:25. To my knowledge that GTR that did 7:56 had racing tyres and suspension and was pumping out about 50% more power than the road going version .... not really a road car. Than what do you believe. Then I'm having hard time believing that '95 Nissan GTR is quicker (around Nurbugring in particular) than '97 Porsche 911 Turbo, Ferrari 355, Ferrarri 550, Ferrari F40, Lambordini Diablo just to list a few .. none of these ever got bellow 8:15. Regards, Dvaid Mocnay

Yes, I think that "road car" is a bit of a stretch for something to satisfy homologation rules. The car it dethroned really is a road car (the Caterham Superlight AFAI remember?). There's a guy in Japan modified an F3 car to be street legal, with mudguards (like a bicycle), lights, bumpers, everything. Could he claim the "road car" record at the Nurburgring? Really sweet looking car though, a real head turner. It must really suck when you pop down to Safeway...! Cheers! John

>Path: >There's a guy in Japan modified an F3 car to be street legal, it was actually a ex-F3000/Nippon Car, not F3. Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Until recently the record for a standard road-car was held by Caterham at a smidge over 8 minutes, so if a Nissan did ever manage under 8 minutes it wasn't standard. The power/weight ratio of a standard Skyline isn't too good, it's the tuning potential that has made it legendary. The standard road-car is legally allowed 112mph and 280hp max by Japanese law, so I doubt it would break too many records. That's why the road-going versions of the Impreza and Lancer have such ferocious acceleration, since with "only" 112mph to reach the gearing is incredibly short. Cheers! John

In terms of a standard road car you're right, I don't think there's any way an "as-sold" Skyline could go sub 8 minutes. Still, an "on the road" version certainly could, since Skyline regularly approach or exceed 1000hp in road-going trim - the chassis is specifically designed to have more power added to it. Cheers! John

Hi John, I've seen the GT3s 1st hand (they had them at Merlbourne GP). The car is very much a 911. It has exactly the same body (extept lower front wing and a different back wing). It has all the interior trim and options of a standard 911. Even the engine looks like the standard 911 (obviously a lot more power from it). I'd say it is more of a road car then a Ferrari 355, F40 or any of the TVRs. I'd say it is to the new 911 what RS was to the previous shape. Though, I aggree with you on the Caterham ... or even RUF Porsche.. they shouldn't be alegibele to the "road car" hall of fame.. Regerds, David

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>>However, isn't the GT3 a specialized car like the Mercedes CLK-GTR? >>That's also a production car...though modified just a tad for street driving. >Yes, I think that "road car" is a bit of a stretch for something to >satisfy homologation rules. The car it dethroned really is a road car >(the Caterham Superlight AFAI remember?). >There's a guy in Japan modified an F3 car to be street legal, with >mudguards (like a bicycle), lights, bumpers, everything. Could he >claim the "road car" record at the Nurburgring? Really sweet looking >car though, a real head turner. It must really suck when you pop down >to Safeway...! >Cheers! >John

A Caterham is a road car? OK, then a CLK-GTR is a road car. Caterham makes what, about 12 cars a year? You can put lights and a horn on anything you like, but a production car is a freaking Escort or something similar, in my opinion. Then again, my opinion has been called many derogatory things by many intelligent people, could be I'm wrong. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

You can read all about it at www.porsche.com (the GT3 that is). It is very much a road car, and the spiritual descendant of the Carerra RS. Stephen : Hi John, : I've seen the GT3s 1st hand (they had them at Merlbourne GP). The car is very : much a 911. It has exactly the same body (extept lower front wing and a : different back wing). It has all the interior trim and options of a standard : 911. Even the engine looks like the standard 911 (obviously a lot more power : from it). I'd say it is more of a road car then a Ferrari 355, F40 or any of : the TVRs. I'd say it is to the new 911 what RS was to the previous shape.

And wasn't it just the most fun, least practical car you've ever seen? :-) What happens if he meets some cute girl while out cruising some night? Wind on a few degrees of rear wing and let her sit there? Petrol must be quite an expense also...! Cheers! John

> >However, isn't the GT3 a specialized car like the Mercedes CLK-GTR? > >That's also a production car...though modified just a tad for street driving. > Yes, I think that "road car" is a bit of a stretch for something to > satisfy homologation rules. The car it dethroned really is a road car > (the Caterham Superlight AFAI remember?). Well, even though the GT3 is a special stripped-out version, I would say it's much more of a practical road car than the Caterham, which has minimal weather protection, zero interior space and is incredibly low (you can reach down from the drivers seat and put your palm flat on the road surface!) The Porsche has many more creature comforts. Yes - I saw that on Top Gear once. Crazy! - Michael

Please, Please, Please, turn off html when posting to Usenet. If you look at the following quote from this post, you will see why.... This is how my Unix reader sees html postings. % <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> % <html> % Very good point and thanks for all the info! % <br>Chris % <blockquote TYPE=CITE>On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:48:43 -0400, Christopher Rossie % <p>>In case anyone doesn't know the F1 "record" there in practice was 6:58.6 % <br>>by Niki Lauda, Ferrari, in 1975 (and I was there, got the announcement % on audio % <br>>tape too!) % <p>>This is not entirelly "simulator" oriented, but for anyone who is fascinated % <br>>by the the Nurbegring track in GPL (a track by which all cars are % judged). % <br>>A new fastest lap has been posted.... mind you it's about 40 seconds % <br>>quicker than I've managed in GPL and I dount anyone will be able to % match this % <br>>(I think just under 8 minutes seems to be the "ceiling". Anyway, here's % <br>>the press release: % <p>>Porsche 911 GT3 % <br>>A new lap record at Nuerburgring. The first production car to lap % <br>>the northern % <br>>circuit in less than 8 minutes. To be precise, the new Porsche 911 % <br>>GT3 takes % <br>>7:56 minutes to complete this exercise, provided the driver is a real % <br>>professional. % <p>Attention! Your mileage does vary. The track lenghts and conditions % <br>are different. % <br>GPL is based on the 22.8km track like in 1967, bumpy and narrow. % <br>After the F1 boycotted the Ring in 1970 and went to Hockenheim for % the % <br>German GP, the circuit was modified in 1970/71, so Lauda did his 6:58 % <br>lap on track that was less bumpy, a little wider and a little safer % <br>than in GPL (plus, he had 500hp, slicks and wings). % <p>Since the 1980s, the Nordschleife is 2km shorter, only 20.8km, because % <br>the Start-Finish-Loop was demolished and replaced by the new 4.5km % GP % <br>track. % <br>The modern 20.8km Nordschleife now turns right just after the % <br>Hohenrain chicane and re-joins directly past the former Nordkurve to % <br>Hatzenbach. % <br>For these 20.8km, the german car magazine "Sportauto" AFAIR reported % a % <br>7:57 for a 600hp 911 Turbo and 7:49 for a 360hp 911 SuperCup (similar % <br>to GT3) with racing tyres. % <br>The motorcycle record is also 7:49. % <p>For touring car racing (24hours and VLN), the 25km of Nordschleife+ % <br>full GP track, or 23.8km of Nordschleife + shortened GP track are % <br>used. % <br>For the 23.8km VLN track, cars like Viper GTS, Porsche 935 and former % <br>DTM-cars Mercedes 190E and Opel Calibra do practice laps around 8:30, % <br>sometimes in less than 8:20. % <br>See <a href="http://www.nuerburgring.de/frame/wige_events_vln_body.html">http://www.nuerburgring.de/frame/wige_events_vln_body.html</a> % <br>and <a href="http://www.vln.home.pages.de">http://www.vln.home.pages.de</a> % <p>-- % <br>Matthias Flatt</blockquote> % </html> -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>>Path: >>There's a guy in Japan modified an F3 car to be street legal, >it was actually a ex-F3000/Nippon Car, not F3. >Z.

Is that good or bad? fast or slow? I saw this car too on "Top Gear" :) Forgive me, I can drive but im a "L" plater when it comes to knowlage & history on cars. -- Gadget???. http://www.i-r-gadget.freeserve.co.uk UIN 862812 Please remove the "NOWT" from email if replying. soz bout tha speeling.

You're thinking of the Porsche 956 driven by Stefan Bellof in 1984: 6:25.8, or an average speed of 135.4mph !

Yeah, that was Autocar, 17 December 1997. The actual 'event' took place in November. The Caterham 7 actually held the Nurburgring record (until the Porsche GT3 came along) at 8:06.2. For the record, the Caterham 7 isn't a Lotus 7 replica, but an evoloution of the Lotus 7. Colin Chapman (Lotus of course) sold the legal ownership of the 7 design to Graham Nearn (Mr Caterham) who continued to manufacturer the 7 as per the Lotus design. Since then, the 7 has slowly evolved to accomodate more modern engines and such like. Where is all this leading? Last week I had an e-mail from Caterham themselves pledging that they are determined to win the record back! Considering the 7 set it's record in damp conditions (with autumnal leaves on the track too!) this could be a possability. If not, perhaps Caterham will develop a more powerful, lighter car (fingers crossed, eh?). ----- Jules

Ah, but your reposting is the first here on AOL that I've seen with active hyperlinks - no copy and paste! :o) Bob (Unix network admin)

Yeah, that's the one ...thatnk for filling in the details :-) Regards, David Mocnay

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>You're thinking of the Porsche 956 driven by Stefan Bellof in 1984: >6:25.8, or an average speed of 135.4mph ! >> That's not all. The all time best lap at Nurbugring is by a Porsche 936 >(or >> something like that ... it's a LeMans car from early 80s). They managed >> something like 6:30!! (I can't remembe the exact time .. but it was >fast). >> Regards, >> David Mocnay