How do you tell a sim from an arcade game?

An arcade game has cheat codes. JM

In the racing genre, MS CPR and NASCAR 2 are sims; all the others are arcade games. W Spilman PS: Bring it on! >An arcade game has cheat codes. >JM

Uh,how about starting with the physics model? > An arcade game has cheat codes. > JM

He's correct... GPL is real racing ;-) -- It's a joke :) -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

And music, although some may say the Ferrari has a great note!

>In the racing genre, MS CPR and NASCAR 2 are sims; all the others are arcade >games. >W Spilman Huh? If GPL isn't a sim, I don't know what is.

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>In the racing genre, MS CPR and NASCAR 2 are sims; all the others are arcade >games. >W Spilman >PS: Bring it on! >>An arcade game has cheat codes. >>JM

Heck, if we're going to mention such greats as MS CPR, we can't forget ABC Indy Racing -- the sim that made us all forget ICR2! <G> -- JB

Don't forget Andretti Racing.

I just KNOW you guys aren't down on MS CPR only because you can't keep the cars on the track,... must be some other reasons.... W Spilman

I think the reason is we've played it. I played it for 20 minutes after the DHL or Fedex of the gold from MS arrived. I never even touched the retail version. So much potential. So little achievement. M

Surely the criteria for being a *sim* rather than an arcade racing game would include the following.... NB: All the following should be implemented as accurately as possible by the designers, manufacturers, etc, but will not always be wholly accurate due to the limitations of using a pc as a simulator. ************************* An accurate physics model. - The car should act as closely as possible in a similar manner to the real thing. This means it should accelerate, brake and steer like a real car. It should suffer damage like a real car, and the damage should affect the cars performance. If set-ups can be altered, they should affect the cars performance as in a real car. If the car is abused or set-up incorrectly the car should eventually suffer engine wear, and random faults hsould occur from time to time as in real life, Eg: tyre punctures, suspension failures, gear box faults, electrical problems, overheating, etc. ************************* An accurately modelled environment. - If the car hits something, it should react as in real life, and affect the car as in real life. Eg: straw bail or concrete barrier? Driving on different surfaces should affect the car in an appropriate manner. Weather should be implemented and affect the cars performance. The graphics should realistically match the area being depicted. ************************* Realistic rules, facts, statistics, graphics, etc. - The races should have the appropriate rules compared to real life racing, (Eg: black flags, penalties, etc). The cars statistics for acceleration, braking, etc should match that of a real car. And set-up options should also match those of a real car (Eg: max speed, BHP, etc, so there should be no grip editors or BHP editors, etc) The graphics should realistically match the cars being depicted. ALL cars and ALL tracks should be available to the user from the moment the program has been installed. The user should not have to access cheats or codes or win races to get to further cars or tracks. ************************* An accurately modelled AI. - The AI should, as much as is possible, be intelligent, in that they allow faster cars to overtake if being lapped, or fight for position if necessary. The AI should have different levels for each car as in real life. Some AI should be agressive, some passive, some fast, and some slower. ************************* NB: Not all (if any?) current sims meet this fairly strict criteria. This is an *ideal* criteria to aim for (and I'm sure the criteria could be added to?) Most sims will almost certainly be lacking in at least one area? ************************* The criteria for arcade driving games would obviously be less strict: Arcade racers may not have an accurate physics model. - The cars may accelerate at exagerated rates or have unrealistic top speeds or stopping distances? There may not be set-up options or the options will be limited or not affect the cars performance in a realistic manner (often the affects will be exagerated?) Damage may not affect the cars performance? ************************* Arcade racers may not have an accurate environment. - It may be based on an *unreal* environment, often futuristic? The environment may not affect the cars performance, there may not be weather or the graphics may be based in some imaginary World? ************************* Arcade racers may not have *any* rules or accurately based facts, etc. - Carmageddon? They may on the other hand have some rules, or use leagues or tables, or cheat modes to access other cars or tracks. Acceleration rates may be exagerated, unrealistic top speeds may be acheivable. ************************* The AI may not be very good. - There may be no AI, or its behaviour may be exagerated to make the game very difficult, or very easy? The AI may be unrealistically represented by monsters or aliens, etc? ************************* Generally speaking, sims are aimed at the serious racing enthusiast, and require a steeper learning curve, and longer time spent practicing to obtain good results consistently. Whereas it could be argued that arcade type games are aimed at the *quick fix* sector of the racing market, and are therefore easier to learn, and do not require the same amount of skill or the same amount of effort to obtain consistent results? Just my opinion of course...... (BTW, I own many sims *AND* arcade type games, and enjoy *BOTH* types as they offer different things). 8-) *Peter* 8-)

An arcade game you can win races on your first night playing. 3 months on with GPL and I'm still 1.5 seconds off the pace but getting closer. It's a sim Pete

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> > An arcade game has cheat codes. > Surely the criteria for being a *sim* rather than an arcade racing game > would include the following.... > NB: All the following should be implemented as accurately as possible by > the designers, manufacturers, etc, but will not always be wholly accurate > due to the limitations of using a pc as a simulator.

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I tried a 10 lap race at Memorial Speedway created by Arne Martin (a great Indy Speedway clone) last night in Intermediate mode. I lapped the field 5 times because they all were involved in a first lap, BEFORE the first turn wreck!! Half the field never got moving again!!!!!!!! THAT is why CPR is not popular!! Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited