An idea for GPL2

Maybe Papyrus could introduce the idea of dual hosts. Currently with a single host, the host computer hosting 19 clients (20 racers in all) sends data for 5 cars to each client computer. That's 95 units. If there were two hosts each hosting 9 clients (still 20 racers in total) then each host would send data for it's 9 clients plus itself to the other host (10 units) and data for 5 cars to each of it's clients (45 units) making a total of 55 units for each host. That's a 58% of the bandwidth needed by each host. This would allow two connections of lower bandwidth to host 20 driver grids (eg ISDN). Ok, so the latency would be increased for car data that was not in your immediate host, but, with some shuffling just before the start, one host could take the first 10 on the grid and the other the last 10 thus maximising the chances of your host dealing with those cars immediately around you. Just a thought. Cheers, Paul

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>Path: neptunium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail >Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators >Subject: An idea for GPL2 >Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:31:15 +0100 >Organization: BT Internet >Lines: 17 >NNTP-Posting-Host: bti240.btinter.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >Xref: neptunium.btinternet.com rec.autos.simulators:175827 >Status: O >Maybe Papyrus could introduce the idea of dual hosts. Currently with a >single host, the host computer hosting 19 clients (20 racers in all) >sends data for 5 cars to each client computer. That's 95 units. If there >were two hosts each hosting 9 clients (still 20 racers in total) then >each host would send data for it's 9 clients plus itself to the other >host (10 units) and data for 5 cars to each of it's clients (45 units) >making a total of 55 units for each host. That's a 58% of the bandwidth >needed by each host. This would allow two connections of lower bandwidth >to host 20 driver grids (eg ISDN). Ok, so the latency would be increased >for car data that was not in your immediate host, but, with some >shuffling just before the start, one host could take the first 10 on the >grid and the other the last 10 thus maximising the chances of your host >dealing with those cars immediately around you.

Sounds awfully messy- if anything the host to host traffic is going to be increased, plus each host broadcasting to it's clients. Sounds liek twice the bandwidth, not half ;) Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

What we really want is a seperate server (preferably running under Linux). This just runs the game but doesn't provide a client (ie another racer on the server machine). Then we can all pester our ISPs to provide GPL servers online all the time ! See Quake 2 for an example of how to do this Pete

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> Maybe Papyrus could introduce the idea of dual hosts. Currently with a > single host, the host computer hosting 19 clients (20 racers in all) > sends data for 5 cars to each client computer. That's 95 units. If there > were two hosts each hosting 9 clients (still 20 racers in total) then > each host would send data for it's 9 clients plus itself to the other > host (10 units) and data for 5 cars to each of it's clients (45 units) > making a total of 55 units for each host. That's a 58% of the bandwidth > needed by each host. This would allow two connections of lower bandwidth > to host 20 driver grids (eg ISDN). Ok, so the latency would be increased > for car data that was not in your immediate host, but, with some > shuffling just before the start, one host could take the first 10 on the > grid and the other the last 10 thus maximising the chances of your host > dealing with those cars immediately around you. > Just a thought. > Cheers, > Paul

Actually, if we're willing to run 18 opponents instead of 19, all we really need is some means of remotely controling another copy of GPL. Just let the host's car sit in the pits. If this ever came to pass, I'd definitely buy another copy just to leave running on my work pc every night. -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

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> >Maybe Papyrus could introduce the idea of dual hosts. Currently with a > >single host, the host computer hosting 19 clients (20 racers in all) > >sends data for 5 cars to each client computer. That's 95 units. If there > >were two hosts each hosting 9 clients (still 20 racers in total) then > >each host would send data for it's 9 clients plus itself to the other > >host (10 units) and data for 5 cars to each of it's clients (45 units) > >making a total of 55 units for each host. That's a 58% of the bandwidth > >needed by each host. This would allow two connections of lower bandwidth > >to host 20 driver grids (eg ISDN). Ok, so the latency would be increased > >for car data that was not in your immediate host, but, with some > >shuffling just before the start, one host could take the first 10 on the > >grid and the other the last 10 thus maximising the chances of your host > >dealing with those cars immediately around you. > Sounds awfully messy- if anything the host to host traffic is going to be > increased, plus each host broadcasting to it's clients. Sounds liek twice the > bandwidth, not half ;)

I don't think you were quite following the argument. Read it again. Cheers, Paul

> Actually, if we're willing to run 18 opponents instead of 19, all we > really need is some means of remotely controling another copy of GPL. > Just let the host's car sit in the pits. If this ever came to pass, I'd > definitely buy another copy just to leave running on my work pc every > night. I;ve been doing this very thing for a couple of months now. I'm using Symantec's "PC Anywhere" software. I leave my office PC running (it's a PII on a T3 connection) and PC Anywhere waits for me to connect from home. When I connect, I see my office machine's desktop on my home PC I fire up GPL (on the office box), start a multiplayer host session, then I quit PC Anywhere and fire up GPL on my home machine. I join the race my office PC is now hosting. Once the race is over, I quit GPL, fire up PC Anywhere again, and export the results and the replay of the race. Then I can start another race session on the office box. I've been hosting races with up to 18 drivers, and the connection quality has to be seen to be believed. Replays look darn near as smooth as offline replays. Give it a shot, you'll be amazed! Trips D. Bell on VROC

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>> Actually, if we're willing to run 18 opponents instead of 19, all we >> really need is some means of remotely controling another copy of GPL. >> Just let the host's car sit in the pits. If this ever came to pass, I'd >> definitely buy another copy just to leave running on my work pc every >> night. >I;ve been doing this very thing for a couple of months now. I'm using >Symantec's "PC Anywhere" software. >I leave my office PC running (it's a PII on a T3 connection) and PC Anywhere >waits for me to connect from home. When I connect, I see my office machine's >desktop on my home PC I fire up GPL (on the office box), start a multiplayer >host session, then I quit PC Anywhere and fire up GPL on my home machine. I >join the race my office PC is now hosting. Once the race is over, I quit GPL, >fire up PC Anywhere again, and export the results and the replay of the race. >Then I can start another race session on the office box.

Hey Trips, which video mode are you running on your work pc? I've got a Viper550 in mine. Up until now, I haven't had to deal with the OpenGL patch (V2 card at home). Then again, I guess if I'm not actually going to be racing the work pc's car, I don't have to worry about it. -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

Even if you were to end up with a race with 40 odd drivers....ummm....you'd need a multi-story pitlane, and a grid that wraps around back to the front of the grid again!! Just a thought Doug

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>>> Actually, if we're willing to run 18 opponents instead of 19, all we >>> really need is some means of remotely controling another copy of GPL. >>> Just let the host's car sit in the pits. If this ever came to pass, I'd >>> definitely buy another copy just to leave running on my work pc every >>> night. >>I;ve been doing this very thing for a couple of months now. I'm using >>Symantec's "PC Anywhere" software. >>I leave my office PC running (it's a PII on a T3 connection) and PC

Anywhere >>waits for me to connect from home. When I connect, I see my office machine's >>desktop on my home PC I fire up GPL (on the office box), start a multiplayer >>host session, then I quit PC Anywhere and fire up GPL on my home machine. I >>join the race my office PC is now hosting. Once the race is over, I quit GPL, >>fire up PC Anywhere again, and export the results and the replay of the race.

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>>Then I can start another race session on the office box. >Hey Trips, which video mode are you running on your work pc? I've got a >Viper550 in mine. Up until now, I haven't had to deal with the OpenGL >patch (V2 card at home). Then again, I guess if I'm not actually going to >be racing the work pc's car, I don't have to worry about it. >-- > | "Instead of letting the moon be the >Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let >Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

> Hey Trips, which video mode are you running on your work pc? I've got a > Viper550 in mine. Up until now, I haven't had to deal with the OpenGL > patch (V2 card at home). Then again, I guess if I'm not actually going to > be racing the work pc's car, I don't have to worry about it. UNtil recently, the office PC had an Accelstar2 video card, and I ran the host in software render mode. In the last week or so I got a TNT for the office box and I now run the host in OpenGL mode. I don't notice a difference in connection quality either way, probably because the machine acts as a dedicated host and doesn't have anyone actually using it to drive. It does, however make me feel a bit more secure knowing that it's now getting 36fps even tho it just sits and hosts. Trips D. Bell on VROC

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>> Hey Trips, which video mode are you running on your work pc? I've got a >> Viper550 in mine. Up until now, I haven't had to deal with the OpenGL >> patch (V2 card at home). Then again, I guess if I'm not actually going to >> be racing the work pc's car, I don't have to worry about it. >UNtil recently, the office PC had an Accelstar2 video card, and I ran the host in >software render mode. In the last week or so I got a TNT for the office box and I >now run the host in OpenGL mode. >I don't notice a difference in connection quality either way, probably because the >machine acts as a dedicated host and doesn't have anyone actually using it to >drive. It does, however make me feel a bit more secure knowing that it's now >getting 36fps even tho it just sits and hosts.

You've broken a lot of ground in this grand experiment of running GPL hosts remotely- thanks for sharing the details. Now, if we could just get an add-on program from one of our illustrious programming wizards, to allow a "work machine" to host with absolutely no outside attendance... that would be amazing. Imagine going home at night, coming back in the morning, and looking at a log of 22 races that night, who won, best times, etc. When we get to that point- two questions: is there any special network vulnerability that such a machine would have (and that the add-on software might have to protect)? and two: is anybody concievably in danger of reprimand from so blatantly using bandwith on a business machine after hours? Re: #1- I guess for one a log of all client IPs is a start, and ability to ban certain users or IPs would be another. I still think the best idea for limiting races to only people there sincerely to race is to have some sort of "7%" qualifying rule (or whatever percentage one chooses), where the slowest time allowed to race is some percentage of the fastest time. Keeps the backward-driving guys and the "just learning the track" guys off, at least. Also, some time max time limit between laps to get in the "7%" so people aren't just there to ruin qualifying.

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> You've broken a lot of ground in this grand experiment of running GPL > hosts remotely- thanks for sharing the details. > Now, if we could just get an add-on program from one of our > illustrious programming wizards, to allow a "work machine" to host > with absolutely no outside attendance... that would be amazing. > Imagine going home at night, coming back in the morning, and looking > at a log of 22 races that night, who won, best times, etc.

Search in this newsgroup about Patch 1.1 from Randy Cassidy. You'll be able to control a host machine via your GPL client. Answer to one: GPL uses the non-secure UDP ports. You should be able to setup a firewall or filter to provide more security. Because of changes in Patch 1.1, you will be able to do more aggressive filtering of packets, more info to come when Patch 1.1 rolls out. Answer to two: depends on your boss :) Joel