TOCA 2 too easy...?

Is it me (am I that good!) or is TOCA 2 far too easy? The first time I played the game (the demo), I found it very hard. I flew all over the track. But because everyone said it's one of the best racing games, I kept on trying. And after a few laps I had big fun. Cars driving fast close together on a small track: great! So I bought the game. The first evening I tried the Normal setting championship. Hm... that's going too easy... Well,Thruxton is an easy track, I guess. Started the championship again in Expert mode. Ah, that's better! I can't qualify in front! And the race was quit nice too. Although... those cars are going much faster than I am on those straight parts of the track. Aha! Setup! Stopped after an hour of playing. The next evening I went to the setup, put my 6th gear ratio completely to the right, and balanced the others. Downforce to zero. Yo, now I'm flying. (BTW My Nissan is still driving in the red, but I can't change the gear setup any further. Is 150 mph the maximum?) Okay, expert mode again. Oops, screwed up my qualifying round: 15th. Now let's race. 5 laps. Very exciting! For one round. In the middle of round 2 was number 1. 15 points! Now the feature race. Qualified 1st! 10 laps. Won the race. Only had trouble with one car after my pitstop. Well, Thruxton is easy! Silverstone! And it rains! This is going to be hard! Same setup (!), but wet tires of course. Oops, screwed up my qualifying round: 12th. Hm, won the race... Feature race! Cloudy, no rain. Qualified 1st. Bad start. But 1st again after the first big corner. Wasn't bothered by anyone anymore. Even after my pitstop (lap 7) I was 1st! Only has some trouble with a car I lapped. Made a mistake: slipped into the sand. Ah, who cares. Drove the last 2 laps very carefully, just like a sunday drive with the family. No problem. Played the game for 2 and and a half hours now. Won all 4 races in expert mode so far. Can someone tell me if this is it? This is no challenge! Colin McRae Rally was a challenge! I had the drive a lot before I won in expert mode there. And every stage took my uttermost concentration. There's got to be something wrong here! Okay, I know: I don't have to qualify. I can start every race as number 16. But that's not the way it should be done. First I was afraid the 15 points limit would irritate me and keep me from going on. Well, I'm not afraid anymore... But I'm not really happy too. Don't get me wrong: I like the game. I really like the car handling. But using the ridicilous setup I do and winning everything (even with spinning of the track!) is not what I expected... What are your experiences? Did I cry too soon? Will it get better later? Did I do something wrong? Sigh... Jeroen van Engelenhoven

You can win at expert mode at every track with no downforce. The AI cars are no challenge at all to any semi experienced games player. They are supposed to be bringing out a patch to increase the AI drivers speed and aggro. If they do this then the game will be fantastic fun, despite what I regard as crappy in car graphics. (Although I have hear there are some setting I may be able to tweak to improve the rear vision mirror. Playing around with the configration file in TOCA 1 greatly improved the voodoo 1 graphics.) Do you get the feeling it was a ruch job to cash in on the start of the BTCC season?

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> Is it me (am I that good!) or is TOCA 2 far too easy? The first time I > played the game (the demo), I found it very hard. I flew all over the track. > But because everyone said it's one of the best racing games, I kept on > trying. And after a few laps I had big fun. Cars driving fast close together > on a small track: great! So I bought the game. The first evening I tried the > Normal setting championship. Hm... that's going too easy... Well,Thruxton is > an easy track, I guess. Started the championship again in Expert mode. Ah, > that's better! I can't qualify in front! And the race was quit nice too. > Although... those cars are going much faster than I am on those straight > parts of the track. Aha! Setup! Stopped after an hour of playing. > The next evening I went to the setup, put my 6th gear ratio completely to > the right, and balanced the others. Downforce to zero. Yo, now I'm flying. > (BTW My Nissan is still driving in the red, but I can't change the gear > setup any further. Is 150 mph the maximum?) Okay, expert mode again. Oops, > screwed up my qualifying round: 15th. Now let's race. 5 laps. Very exciting! > For one round. In the middle of round 2 was number 1. 15 points! Now the > feature race. Qualified 1st! 10 laps. Won the race. Only had trouble with > one car after my pitstop. Well, Thruxton is easy! > Silverstone! And it rains! This is going to be hard! Same setup (!), but wet > tires of course. Oops, screwed up my qualifying round: 12th. Hm, won the > race... Feature race! Cloudy, no rain. Qualified 1st. Bad start. But 1st > again after the first big corner. Wasn't bothered by anyone anymore. Even > after my pitstop (lap 7) I was 1st! Only has some trouble with a car I > lapped. Made a mistake: slipped into the sand. Ah, who cares. Drove the last > 2 laps very carefully, just like a sunday drive with the family. No problem. > Played the game for 2 and and a half hours now. Won all 4 races in expert > mode so far. Can someone tell me if this is it? This is no challenge! Colin > McRae Rally was a challenge! I had the drive a lot before I won in expert > mode there. And every stage took my uttermost concentration. There's got to > be something wrong here! Okay, I know: I don't have to qualify. I can start > every race as number 16. But that's not the way it should be done. First I > was afraid the 15 points limit would irritate me and keep me from going on. > Well, I'm not afraid anymore... But I'm not really happy too. > Don't get me wrong: I like the game. I really like the car handling. But > using the ridicilous setup I do and winning everything (even with spinning > of the track!) is not what I expected... > What are your experiences? Did I cry too soon? Will it get better later? Did > I do something wrong? > Sigh... > Jeroen van Engelenhoven

I can hardly wait!!! Don't know... How does the PC version compare to the PSX version? Is that one just as easy? In that case it isn't a rush job: that one was released long ago. I think I'm going to find out which setup will me make me (almost) equal to the AI drivers (yeah, sounds weird, huh?!). I say 'almost', because in the end I want to win the race of course :-) but not that easy: I want to fight for victory until the finish line. Jeroen

Do you find it too easy in Expert mode? I've only played the Championship in Expert for a short while but I find it pretty challenging and the agression from other drivers is quite strong. Whilst in real life there is a fair amount of agression in the races it isn't exactly out and out war.

Compared to the SCGT demo the toca 2 ai are like shumacher on roids. I hope they fix up the aggression before the final release. Poor ai could really kill that game. -ilmore

: Compared to the SCGT demo the toca 2 ai are like shumacher on roids. I hope : they fix up the aggression before the final release. Poor ai could really : kill that game. (Grin) You've clearly never seen a touring car race have you? If a BTCC driver finishes the race with both wing-mirrors, he hasn't tried hard enough. Rubbing bumpers is a pretty much accepted part of the British Touring Car scene. OK, you don't do anything too blatant, but the AI in TOCA seems about right. GT racing is a completely different kettle of fish and, while I haven't played SCGT, I would imagine that a much less "muscular" AI would be right. The funny thing about the AI in TOCA is that they really seem to have it right for the support races too - the Ford Fiestas weave all over the place, go three into a corner and then spin out - just like in real life. The FFord's look pretty "right" from the few Formula Ford races I've seen. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Third evening with TOCA 2, third round in the expert championship, Donington. Lost the sprint, won the feature race easily. Took me two times though, because I accidently asked for slicks instead of wet tires!!! That cpst me my nr. 1 spot... Why can't you change your choices anymore??? Anyway, went on to round 7 & 8: Brands Hatch. Nice little track! Did not practice: used the qualifying round to see what track is was. Qualified 16th :-). But won the race :-) and :-( ... Lucky for me, because the sudden rain was too much for me in the feature race: spinned of the track about 12 times... Also thanks to an annoying 'trigger in the road': after the first corner I almost always get a kick to my rear from no one... Very annoying... You have to steer VERY carefully there or you will end up turned around. Again, I still like the game! I hate the 15 point limit (after winning the sprint the tension left the event: you're on to the next round anyway!). But the sprint at Brands was great: I took the number 1 position in the very last corner! Now that's more like it! Great tension! On to Donington for the second time this season... Jeroen

>Great to know it's real. I wonder if it's always been like that. I don't think there have been any changes beyond the addition of track beyond the rumble strip on the LHS. In those days, tyre technology limited the grip and I doubt they were achieving the speeds of today. Also, single seaters and special track racers are *very* light and with more adjustability - so less suspension bottoming and (hopefully) no "wind-up". Peter PS: I was taking the corner at ~110 and going through the dip at ~130. I ploughed a deep furrow ~25m long in the litter and hit the tyre wall enough to do considerable body damage. The marshals reckoned I hit the run off area doing ~90mph sideways. It sure is cheaper getting it wrong in TOCA 2 :-)

It is strange that kick from no one at Brands Hatch after the first corner in the dip. Also I can't see the point of the 15 points per race day to go on. I doubt many of the real teams would bother if it happened in real life. You should be able to race the whole season and evaluate your results at the end and try again from scratch. This way makes it too much of a game instead of a sim.

Oh I think youve misunderstood me. Ive seen many touring car races and know very well how rough the british form of the sport is. I was actually sticking up for the toca 2 ai, I think its great. Its rare that I actually yell swear words at the ai in a game but toca 2 does that for me. You should try the SCGT demo, I know that these guys want to conserve fuel and not damage the car because of the long race distances but do they have to be soooo slow???? Honestly with a bit of practice you can overlap 2nd place on the highest difficultie! -ilmore

TOCA 1 AI used to punt you off at random. However, extra aggression means locked up brakes as they try to steal the inside line by outbraking you. Just doesn't happen in any current sim. I would love to see, as in real racing, a late breaking move result in a wide exit from the corner giving you a chance to snatch back the position. Happend against humans and this is why it is currently more fun to race other people than the copmputer AI.

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> Do you find it too easy in Expert mode? I've only played the Championship in > Expert for a short while but I find it pretty challenging and the agression > from other drivers is quite strong. Whilst in real life there is a fair > amount of agression in the races it isn't exactly out and out war. > > >They are supposed to be bringing out a patch to increase the AI drivers > > speed > > >and aggro. > > I can hardly wait!!! > > >Do you get the feeling it was a ruch job to cash in on the start of the > > BTCC > > >season? > > Don't know... How does the PC version compare to the PSX version? Is that > > one just as easy? In that case it isn't a rush job: that one was released > > long ago. I think I'm going to find out which setup will me make me > (almost) > > equal to the AI drivers (yeah, sounds weird, huh?!). I say 'almost', > because > > in the end I want to win the race of course :-) but not that easy: I want > to > > fight for victory until the finish line. > > Jeroen

: TOCA 1 AI used to punt you off at random. However, extra aggression means locked : up brakes as they try to steal the inside line by outbraking you. Just doesn't : happen in any current sim. I would love to see, as in real racing, a late : breaking move result in a wide exit from the corner giving you a chance to : snatch back the position. Happend against humans and this is why it is currently : more fun to race other people than the copmputer AI. I could swear this situation has happened several times in GP2. I don't know if it agression or just AI brain fade, but I've had AI cars outbrake themselves and go wide. S.

Well when this happens... it means that the AI is very well done. It's normally one of the base that people will judge the AI for. Aggression but intelligent aggression. If they are too crazy and unrealistic (punt each 2turns), it's bad. But in Gp2, Toca 1 or GPLegends, you can clearly see the controlled aggression by different drivers. Another easy point to look at is if a AI sometimes hits the apex too early or too late. I know many titles that never have such a thing (<cough> Ubisoft). Still, the GPL AI isn't perfect. Look at it around Monaco and you will see that it's very weird. Not in-car, but with a TV camera. It will use some out-of-this-world physics sometimes, strafing left and right for no reason. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Hey Rrevved Are you still using your Act Labs wheel and if so, what settings are you using to get a good feel with SCGT. Ive tried all kinds of different adjustments with the in game menus for dead spot and sensitivity, and yet I cant seem to get a good setup. Its either way too loose or over sensitive. Im using the in car view, but when I switch to the chase view, there almost seems to be a delay, with turning the wheel and the cars reaction. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. re

Thanks for the advice rrevved it seems to have helped a bit, but Im not really getting much force on the track, just off. I'll have to keep tinkering. TSW eh?, you lucky dog! reg

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>On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:05:02 GMT, >>Hey Rrevved >>Are you still using your Act Labs wheel and if so, what settings are >>you using to get a good feel with SCGT. Ive tried all kinds of >>different adjustments with the in game menus for dead spot and >>sensitivity, and yet I cant seem to get a good setup. Its either way >>too loose or over sensitive. >I use my new TSW with SCGT, but when I used my Force RS with >the demo, I set it up for high sensitivity, and minimum dead-zone, if I >remember correctly. I also use those settings with my TSW. One thing is, >I had to reduce the overall force of the Force RS in the wheel settings in >Win98 game controllers. I think I used 80% overall force.. >> Im using the in car view, but when I switch to the chase view, there >>almost seems to be a delay, with turning the wheel and the cars >>reaction. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. >>re >Reggie, it sounds to me like you have the graphics detail turned up >-way- too high for your system. I was seeing that in the demo when I used >800x600, full detail. FF gives a pretty sizable framerate hit and if >your graphics are set too high, you -will- experience delays. Try >it with FF off and see how much it improves the performance. >Also, be SURE to download the new Force RS drivers at www.actlab.com . >They have much beter performance and also have other features, like >being able to set a centering force in non-FF games. >Good luck! >>>Really!! While I lap Road Atlanta, in SCGT, there are two or three places >>>that bring back ?fond? memories of big offs, with the ensuing wallet damage.. :)

:> I could swear this situation has happened several times in GP2. I don't :> know if it agression or just AI brain fade, but I've had AI cars outbrake :> themselves and go wide. : Well when this happens... it means that the AI is very well done. It's : normally one of the base that people will judge the AI for. Aggression but : intelligent aggression. If they are too crazy and unrealistic (punt each : 2turns), it's bad. But in Gp2, Toca 1 or GPLegends, you can clearly see the : controlled aggression by different drivers. The thing I liked in TOCA 1 that I've yet to spot in TOCA 2 or GPL is that different drivers had different styles and levels of aggression. I was always more worried about overtaking say Cleland, Warwick or Plato than any of the other drivers because you knew that they'd close the door on you, and hard or would weave a little on the straights. I've not noticed this effect in any other sim. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Haven't really noticed it in TOCA 2. I remember some drivers in TOCA 1 would rather punt you off than let you pass. I think they got a lot of complaints about how "too much agro" ruined the game. Perhaps ther will be an AGRO adjustment in the TOCA 2 patch?

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> :> I could swear this situation has happened several times in GP2. I don't > :> know if it agression or just AI brain fade, but I've had AI cars outbrake > :> themselves and go wide. > : Well when this happens... it means that the AI is very well done. It's > : normally one of the base that people will judge the AI for. Aggression but > : intelligent aggression. If they are too crazy and unrealistic (punt each > : 2turns), it's bad. But in Gp2, Toca 1 or GPLegends, you can clearly see the > : controlled aggression by different drivers. > The thing I liked in TOCA 1 that I've yet to spot in TOCA 2 or GPL is > that different drivers had different styles and levels of aggression. > I was always more worried about overtaking say Cleland, Warwick or Plato > than any of the other drivers because you knew that they'd close the > door on you, and hard or would weave a little on the straights. I've > not noticed this effect in any other sim. > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. > www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

surely you jest? have you never followed Surtees in the Murasama - the blokes a complete loon in GPL!! -- Mike Buckley Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd Tel: +44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: +44 (0)1472 371208 http://www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

:> The thing I liked in TOCA 1 that I've yet to spot in TOCA 2 or GPL is :>that different drivers had different styles and levels of aggression. :>I was always more worried about overtaking say Cleland, Warwick or Plato :>than any of the other drivers because you knew that they'd close the :>door on you, and hard or would weave a little on the straights. I've :>not noticed this effect in any other sim. : surely you jest? have you never followed Surtees in the Murasama - the : blokes a complete loon in GPL!! Really, I guess I'm just not good enough with GPL to notice these things then. Is it a case of genuinely different AI "aggression" or just a consequence of different cars? In GPL there's always a bit of a difference when cornering caused by which cars have sharper brakes. (The ferrari seems to have magically sharp braking somehow and, when I drive a ferrari I usually pile into the back of someone due to them braking earlier). I'll look out for that next time I play GPL - it's been a bit sidelined since TOCA2 came along. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html