Why not more VROC servers?

We have at least 4 drivers in our league that cannot host, or even join reliably with their cable connections. Having a connection that works for hosting is not a given, even with cable. Kevin Caldwell Calgary, Canada

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> My guess, Doug, is the reason you don't host... no digital connection. I > think there are some that do, but I just have a crappy modem at the > moment. At this time, I would NOT make a good host for more than 3 other > people.... which I may do soon. But I can't say it'd be that great. > Once more get digital connections, I think it will be better. > -_Dave > > As good as VROC has been lately, I'm wondering why there are not more

high- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Not to mention that GPL wasn't intended for net play so there is no info in the box. I wonder what percentage of people who bought GPL have any idea this type of thing happens? I have run into people in the software aisle that have no idea... John

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> We have at least 4 drivers in our league that cannot host, or even join > reliably with their cable connections. Having a connection that works for > hosting is not a given, even with cable. > Kevin Caldwell > Calgary, Canada > > My guess, Doug, is the reason you don't host... no digital connection. I > > think there are some that do, but I just have a crappy modem at the > > moment. At this time, I would NOT make a good host for more than 3 other > > people.... which I may do soon. But I can't say it'd be that great. > > Once more get digital connections, I think it will be better. > > -_Dave > > > As good as VROC has been lately, I'm wondering why there are not more > high- > > Dave Schwabe > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Just my opinion. I think it has to do with the fact that so many people are running this sim on inferior equipment. I have to go my brothers house to race, and he only gets 19 fps. He couldnt possibly run on VROC until he and or I upgrade. I beleive many many people are in this predicament. Running the sim at home as best they can, but unable to race on VROC. As more and more people get better CPU's I think you will see more getting involved with VROC...again... just my opinion. Woz

Just to add John; Don't forget all the hours that was put into Vroc at no charge!! So we should thank all the work and time by these hard working developers.. So I say Thanx!! ;0) Thom j. aka ^Fretts..

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> Not to mention that GPL wasn't intended for net play so there is no info in > the box. I wonder what percentage of people who bought GPL have any idea this > type of thing happens? I have run into people in the software aisle that have > no idea... > John > > We have at least 4 drivers in our league that cannot host, or even join > > reliably with their cable connections. Having a connection that works for > > hosting is not a given, even with cable. > > Kevin Caldwell > > Calgary, Canada > > > My guess, Doug, is the reason you don't host... no digital connection. I > > > think there are some that do, but I just have a crappy modem at the > > > moment. At this time, I would NOT make a good host for more than 3 other > > > people.... which I may do soon. But I can't say it'd be that great. > > > Once more get digital connections, I think it will be better. > > > -_Dave > > > > As good as VROC has been lately, I'm wondering why there are not more > > high- > > > Dave Schwabe > > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

no_spam.n2rif1.vcf < 1K Download

>My guess, Doug, is the reason you don't host... no digital connection. I >think there are some that do, but I just have a crappy modem at the >moment. At this time, I would NOT make a good host for more than 3 other >people.... which I may do soon. But I can't say it'd be that great. >Once more get digital connections, I think it will be better. Good point. Now... here's a little theory I have. If someone out in our Ingenious Programming Community can come up with a Hack to make GPL cycle through tracks automagically- that is, with no user present host races over and over again- we would be on the way to a VROC revolution, me-thinks! Why's this? Because then all the people at work with those high-speed T1 connections could... leave their machines hosting GPL all night! Question- would someone at work have to have a fast video card and all that to simply host races? Seems like a very streamlined setup for just servers could be created such that the serving machine needs very little outside of primary processor and network connection, I'd think. SOmeone could theoretically host races from a non-gamer work machine that they'd actually race on from home just like any other client.

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> Now... here's a little theory I have. If someone out in our Ingenious > Programming Community can come up with a Hack to make GPL cycle > through tracks automagically- that is, with no user present host races > over and over again- we would be on the way to a VROC revolution, > me-thinks! Why's this? Because then all the people at work with those > high-speed T1 connections could... leave their machines hosting GPL > all night!

No need for automatic cycling to accomplish this. I've been hosting GPL races on my work box (a PII 233 on a T3) for quite some time now. The connects are great for the most part, with hardly a warp let alone disconnects. I use Symantec's PC Anywhere software to remotely control the work machine from my house... I fire up my net connection, grab control of the work box with PC Anywhere, then start a multiplayer host session. I then quit PC Anywhere, and fire up GPL on the home machine and join the race on my work box. It's been working like a charm. I have some replays of some of the league races I've hosted on this setup... It looks pretty much as smooth as an offline race. I started hosting with a crappy Accelstar2 video card in the box. Ran GPL in Software rendering mode getting around 20fps. Didn't seem to impact the race quality at all (likely because I don't actually race on the work box, so all it has to do is sit there and host). I've recently placed a RivaTNT on the work machine, now runnign the GPL host in OpenGL: mode at 36fps. Haven't seen any difference in connection quality, so I'd have to say that based on my experience, a host machine can get away with less than 36fps if no one is actually trying to use the host box to race. When I'm not hosting league races on the box I'll often fire up a server for VROC. If you've ever seen "T.Server" hosting on VROC, that's my trusty work box... Trips

> I use Symantec's PC Anywhere software to remotely control the work machine > from my house... I fire up my net connection, grab control of the work box > with PC Anywhere, then start a multiplayer host session. I then quit PC > Anywhere, and fire up GPL on the home machine and join the race on my work > box. It's been working like a charm. You win the Creativity Award! That is excellent :) D.Cook

Just wait for the patch. ;-) John

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> >My guess, Doug, is the reason you don't host... no digital connection. I > >think there are some that do, but I just have a crappy modem at the > >moment. At this time, I would NOT make a good host for more than 3 other > >people.... which I may do soon. But I can't say it'd be that great. > >Once more get digital connections, I think it will be better. > Good point. > Now... here's a little theory I have. If someone out in our Ingenious > Programming Community can come up with a Hack to make GPL cycle > through tracks automagically- that is, with no user present host races > over and over again- we would be on the way to a VROC revolution, > me-thinks! Why's this? Because then all the people at work with those > high-speed T1 connections could... leave their machines hosting GPL > all night! > Question- would someone at work have to have a fast video card and all > that to simply host races? Seems like a very streamlined setup for > just servers could be created such that the serving machine needs very > little outside of primary processor and network connection, I'd think. > SOmeone could theoretically host races from a non-gamer work machine > that they'd actually race on from home just like any other client.

Doug, 1st,I would assume that there are more likely 100,000s of copies of gpl out there. I understand that it's one of Sierras most popular sims ever. As for just how many gpl racers know about VROC,there are many threads to the site other than r.a.s. If you're a auto racing simmer,then you certainly visit The Pits at least once per month,and that's where I 1st found out about VROC. But as hard as it may be for us online racers to believe, the majority of gpl racers prefer to or circumstances require that they race against the AIs off line. They might only have internet access through AOL,or they might have to pay long distant phone charges. Joel Willstein

writes: I've done it before - left my work machine(T1 connection) at a track with a long practice time. That way, people get to practice, and I can join the race when I get home. Two problems - one, I can only host one race this way, as there's no way to control the 'server' after the race. Two, this only works if I have a static IP address at work. When I set it for DHCP (as our netadmin as decreed), the host doesn't show up. Anybody have a fix for that yet? My work system is a PII 300mhz w/o a 3D card. I just turned down all the details(since I'm not racing THERE), and it works fine. I was worried about warping, but the people who DID run on my server said it ran fine... Also, if GPL ran as a window, I could use PCAnywhere or something to capture my work system from home, and reset the race/track. Just wishing, I guess. Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

writes: Hmm, I'll have to check my system again. I couldn't get a remote to work, and I assumed GPL took over the server system... Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> I've done it before - left my work machine(T1 connection) at a track with a > long practice time. That way, people get to practice, and I can join the race > when I get home. Two problems - one, I can only host one race this way, as > there's no way to control the 'server' after the race. PC Anywhere. It'll let you start the server from home, and shut it down after the racing. (As well as export results and race replays) I have a static IP at work, I don't know if it's possible to host GPL using DHCP. You can make GPL run in a window, just add the following to your core.ini: [ Rasterizer ] fullScreen = 0 BUT... why bother? PC Anywhere doesn't require GPL to run in a window. Trips

I didn't see the original of this post by Trips, but am glad EP included it: >writes: >>No need for automatic cycling to accomplish this. I've been hosting GPL races >>on my work box (a PII 233 on a T3) for quite some time now. The connects are >>great for the most part, with hardly a warp let alone disconnects. Wow. That is fantastic. So there definitely is no need for high-muscle machine with Voodoo card (or the like). The network connection with a moderate machine is enought to host. How many people can you allow to connect without problems? Great thinking. Do you have a modem at home, or a cable/ISDN-sort of connection? If the latter, what is the benefit of hosting from work? (like, does it free up home machine from some sort of hosting load?) just trying to sort all this out...

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>writes: >>Question- would someone at work have to have a fast video card and all >>that to simply host races? Seems like a very streamlined setup for >>just servers could be created such that the serving machine needs very >>little outside of primary processor and network connection, I'd think. >>SOmeone could theoretically host races from a non-gamer work machine >>that they'd actually race on from home just like any other client. >I've done it before - left my work machine(T1 connection) at a track with a >long practice time. That way, people get to practice, and I can join the race >when I get home. Two problems - one, I can only host one race this way, as >there's no way to control the 'server' after the race. Two, this only works if >I have a static IP address at work. When I set it for DHCP (as our netadmin as >decreed), the host doesn't show up. Anybody have a fix for that yet? >My work system is a PII 300mhz w/o a 3D card. I just turned down all the >details(since I'm not racing THERE), and it works fine. I was worried about >warping, but the people who DID run on my server said it ran fine...

Excellent. These are the sorts of details programmers will need to understand to help create the sort of fixes you are talking about. I never heard of the dynamic IP issue, for one. I don't understand DHCP principles- I figured the IP was given when the first TCP program started and it remained until all TCP programs were closed. Woulddn't that be more or less like having a static IP from GPL's point of view, so long as some TCP/IP program on the Host is left on? Sure sound entirely plausible. Fact is, using PCAnywhere might make it possible to write a fairly simply hack to remotely cycle your work comptuer from home- although that certainly is a very round-about way to achieve track cycling, IMO! But if it is easy to do, it might be a good fix until a real solution comes. In the extreme form, a home machine could be setup to dial in every 40 minutes to cycle the tracks! Might get the Rube Goldberg award... Big question from my perspective- is it clearly possible for a non-Papyrus (i.e., without direct code access) programmer to write some sort of external track-cycling program for GPL? Something that literally "clicks the windows" and initiates hosting, etc.? Is there enough to work with? I know this isn't "Quake Script" or whatever, but Papy always had left a lot of exposed stuff for people to monkey with- much to the sim communities great happiness.

> Hmm, I'll have to check my system again. I couldn't get a remote to work, and > I assumed GPL took over the server system... If your office PC runs GPL on a Voodoo or Voodoo2, you won't be able to use PC Anywhere from home. GPL must be running on your primary display device because PC Anywhere sends the contents of your primary device's framebuffer to the remote PC. When I had the Accelstar2/Voodoo1 combo in the office box, I had to run the host in software render mode to be able to control it from home. With the TNT in the office box, I can run the host in OpenGL mode and still see it on the remote PC. Trips D. Bell on VROC

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> I didn't see the original of this post by Trips, but am glad EP > included it: > >writes: > >>No need for automatic cycling to accomplish this. I've been hosting GPL races > >>on my work box (a PII 233 on a T3) for quite some time now. The connects are > >>great for the most part, with hardly a warp let alone disconnects. > Wow. That is fantastic. So there definitely is no need for high-muscle > machine with Voodoo card (or the like). The network connection with a > moderate machine is enought to host. > How many people can you allow to connect without problems?

I don't know what the absolute limit is, in the league races I've hosted we've not had much of a turnout. Those who did attend looked very smooth tho. I'll be hosting some races on VROC tonight (Friday), hopefully we'll find out how it's working for full fields. I've got ISDN at home, and I could host maybe four or five from there. BUT, I've always thought that the host should be dedicated to hosting, not hosting AND racing at the same time. Also, the league I raced in (VIRC) needed a host for its F3 division. Since I'm only really interested in F3 racing online, I decided that I'd better do whatever I had to to make sure a suitable host was available. The other advantage to this method is that I get beter framerates online by passing the host duties off to the office machine. Trips D. Bell on VROC

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>> Hmm, I'll have to check my system again. I couldn't get a remote to work, >and >> I assumed GPL took over the server system... >If your office PC runs GPL on a Voodoo or Voodoo2, you won't be able to use >PC >Anywhere from home. GPL must be running on your primary display device >because PC >Anywhere sends the contents of your primary device's framebuffer to the >remote PC. >When I had the Accelstar2/Voodoo1 combo in the office box, I had to run the >host >in software render mode to be able to control it from home. With the TNT in >the >office box, I can run the host in OpenGL mode and still see it on the remote >PC. >Trips >D. Bell on VROC

No 3D card, so that shouldn't be a problem... __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I have ASDL and used to host a lot of races, But I just got tired of people crashing on the first lap trying to win the race on lap 1. I tried using a spaced out 1X1 grid asking people to take it easy on the start and first lap but you always get a few that go balls out from anywhere on the grid that think even tho I didn't qualify well I'll just shoot up to the front and see if I can grab a good spot. Very few races are run with out a crash at the line or at the first turn, If guys only understood that if you take it easy on the first lap and everyone gets to race its a lot more fun then being out there all alone or only with 2 or 3 guys because everyone else left. My point being that I didn't like hosting, being taken out at the start or first lap and having to tie up my system waiting for the few left to finish the race. Its just easier to let someone else host and if I'm hit on the first lap I leave and go look for another race. Mickey