Go Figure, I do better with a stick!

Dag Dab It! I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for $50. Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals to no avail. Is it me or what? At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 That sucks. I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just trying to keep the car straight... The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my moving my hand maybe 4 inches. Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a wheel. I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? Am I crazy? -- -Gunslinger-

Hi! Hmm, I don't know what the T2 is sold as here in Germany, but I have a F1 (Nascar Pro in the US, I suppose) and I'm pretty satisfied with it. The pedals stay on the ground, are big enough for my size 10 feet and the wheel can be turned about 270 from side to side. That's not too much. My laptimes at the Glen for instance have improved to low 1:06 and there is still room left. With a joy I never almost came near the 1:10's. But, that's everyone's own choice. Use the device you can drive best with. Just to give an example: One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger, also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen). So, keep calm, you're not crazy ;-)) Cya Crash =Gunslinger= schrieb:

Quoted text (35 lines)

> Dag Dab It! > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for > $50. > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals > to no avail. > Is it me or what? > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 > That sucks. > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just > trying to keep the car straight... > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my > moving my hand maybe 4 inches. > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a > wheel. > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? > Am I crazy? > -- > -Gunslinger-

erika.und.joachim.blum.vcf < 1K Download

That's what i thought too, when i went from a joystick to the T2 several years ago in NFS 1. It's gonna take a lot longer than 3 days to get used to the wheel, but once you do, it will most likely be faster. Eventually you will learn the sweet spot in certain games where you are on the edge of grip, something that is difficult to do with a joystick. I went through the same situation, and believe me, keep at the wheel. As for the peddles moving around and being too close together, i can agree with you there. You can remedy the sliding. I got some of this ***y sheet stuff (real specific i know, think it's used in cabinets so you don't scratch up the good dishes) and simply put the peddles on top of that. Dag Dab It! I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for $50. Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals to no avail. Is it me or what? At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 That sucks. I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just trying to keep the car straight... The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my moving my hand maybe 4 inches. Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a wheel. I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? Am I crazy? -- -Gunslinger-

>One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger, >also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's >really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen). WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have instant gas and instant brake, no in between. I don't see how it is possible. -- -Gunslinger-

>WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have >instant gas and instant brake, no in between. >I don't see how it is possible. You can use the forward/backward movement of the stick for accelerator/brake. Well, some people can, I can't. Remco

'Slinger... you use pushing forward on the stick as accelerate, pulling back as brake and side-to-side for the obvious. Buttons do the shifting... I haven't lapped the Glen in a while, but i've gone 1:04.3 in the Lotus and 1:04.9 in the Brabham with a dilapitated FlightStick in the above configuration.... --dave

Quoted text (10 lines)

> >One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger, > >also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's > >really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen). > WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have > instant gas and instant brake, no in between. > I don't see how it is possible. > -- > -Gunslinger-

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

The only way to do it for analogue control. Only problem is braking and turning at the same time. It is extremely difficult to pull back to brake whilst holding a constant arc with the steering. After a while it becomes second nature but it takes practice. Mark

I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98. Since 93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake" all the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem} So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there & I am sorry if I missed you! Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng> know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud} All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts...

Quoted text (35 lines)

> Dag Dab It! > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for > $50. > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals > to no avail. > Is it me or what? > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 > That sucks. > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just > trying to keep the car straight... > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my > moving my hand maybe 4 inches. > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a > wheel. > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? > Am I crazy? > -- > -Gunslinger-

n2rif1.vcf < 1K Download

You can use a joy with throttle control - assign braking to the throttle. Not sure if this is better or not as I use a wheel/pedals but it does mean you can use brake/throttle at the same time. Mike >The only way to do it for analogue control. Only problem is braking and >turning at the same time. It is extremely difficult to pull back to brake >whilst holding a constant arc with the steering. After a while it becomes >second nature but it takes practice.

I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for $50. <snip you going faster (congrats!)> If you want an incredible pair of pedals for your racing, I really suggest getting CH pedals. Not the Pro pedals (well take them if you want the extra quality), but the normal ones. They do an excellent job for airsims as well, and they are seriously a killer to add to your joystick or even the T2. On my side I have an EXL500 wheel (who is probably the Mercedes of plastic wheels) with a pair of CH pedals. An almost TSW2 quality for near 100$. And I have 4pedals (the EXL comes with crappy pedals), so I have them configured on a line so I have a clutch on the left of my brake pedal! 8) As for being faster.... well there is many of the fastest people use a Joystick. It's a matter of personal preference. I know on the NROS you can't be faster with a joystick, but with those 1967 Formula1 cars it's a totally different thing. Many Papyrus employees have this configuration, btw :) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Way back when, I used to do driving games with the trusty CH Flightstick and CH Flightstick Pro. I used side to side for steering, obviously, front for gas, back for brake, and the buttons to shift. It can be done. The main problem I had, and why I really really wanted at least some pedals, was that when you were turning AND braking or accelerating at the same time, it was hard to keep the stick from moving somewhat off your steering line when pulling it back or pushing it forward. My CH Pedals helped a lot, but after adjustment I like my Thrustmaster GP1 and now the NASCAR Pro a lot better than the joystick. -- Ken's Sig 2.01 "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony." Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com >One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger, >also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's >really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen). WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have instant gas and instant brake, no in between. I don't see how it is possible. -- -Gunslinger-

Hi ! Just be patient, I use T2 too and it's a great wheel for the money (also TM's support is the best). I know some people were getting used to the wheel for several weeks not hours. 1:38 at Glen was surely done with lots of spins ;-) About pedals - use left foot braking. And sit a bit lower then now. I never had problems with pedals lifting from the floor, but I do sit quite low, lower then on an ordinary office chair anyway (on some comfotable couch :o) Practice the wheel for a week or so, the GPL itself is very tricky to drive and if you're gonna learn to drive with the wheel in GPL, you'll need a lot of patience. Also, if you feel more confident with the stick, then use the stick. There are some really fast drivers with sticks out there (e.g. Wolfgang Woeger and Sasa Mencinger that I both know, use sticks). Also, there is a lot in the calibration. Don't calibrate all the way left to right. Calibrate as little to the left & right as possible - this will allow you for faster lock-to-lock steering when recovering from the spin. Happy racing, Tadej

Quoted text (35 lines)

> Dag Dab It! > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for > $50. > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals > to no avail. > Is it me or what? > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 > That sucks. > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just > trying to keep the car straight... > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my > moving my hand maybe 4 inches. > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a > wheel. > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? > Am I crazy? > -- > -Gunslinger-

Well, you can somewhat... trail braking in the real sense means you are finishing your braking and turning in at the same time... you have the brakes on lightly as the turn starts. With the right setup, this can allow you to brake later and still get a nice turn-in. I have a Flightstick (old, beatup and as loose as a 60-year-old ***) and I can "occasionally" do it... Wolfie I think may do it more, but he obviously has more finesse on the j-stick than me. But you can do it, it just takes concentration and smoothness. --Dave "^Fretts

Quoted text (55 lines)

> I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98. > Since > 93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake" > all > the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on > the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem} > So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or > Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there > & I am sorry if I missed you! > Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick > only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this > can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without > pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique > with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng> > know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud} > All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts... > > Dag Dab It! > > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for > > $50. > > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH > > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals > > to no avail. > > Is it me or what? > > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 > > That sucks. > > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. > > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, > > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the > > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal > > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. > > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these > > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you > > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I > > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) > > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. > > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just > > trying to keep the car straight... > > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with > > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to > > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my > > moving my hand maybe 4 inches. > > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a > > wheel. > > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? > > Am I crazy? > > -- > > -Gunslinger-

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

I know him well, we chat sometimes via ICQ. :o) The thing is that Wolfie doesn't trail brake much, but when he does, his setup is understeering enough so he doesn't have to correct with tapping the brake. It's that simple. And btw. you can be fast without trail braking too. Another approach is to use little brake ratio (at 53 or 54%) which causes the ideal braking into the turn and you can brake and turn, but obviously all in the friction circle because you can't reach over the limit and stay on the track for a long time ;-) Cheers, Tadej ^Fretts

Quoted text (69 lines)

> I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98. > Since > 93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake" > all > the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on > the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem} > So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or > Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there > & I am sorry if I missed you! > Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick > only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this > can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without > pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique > with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng> > know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud} > All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts... > > Dag Dab It! > > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for > > $50. > > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH > > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals > > to no avail. > > Is it me or what? > > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 > > That sucks. > > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. > > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, > > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the > > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal > > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. > > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these > > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you > > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I > > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) > > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. > > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just > > trying to keep the car straight... > > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with > > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to > > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my > > moving my hand maybe 4 inches. > > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a > > wheel. > > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? > > Am I crazy? > > -- > > -Gunslinger- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Thom j. > HTML Mail > Additional Information: > Last Name j. > First Name Thom > Version 2.1

Quoted text (10 lines)

>I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for >$50. ><snip you going faster (congrats!)> >If you want an incredible pair of pedals for your racing, I really suggest >getting CH pedals. Not the Pro pedals (well take them if you want the extra >quality), but the normal ones. They do an excellent job for airsims as >well, and they are seriously a killer to add to your joystick or even the >T2.

I've got some CH pedals, and I remember in ICR2 discovering that I never could match my CH pedal/CH FLight Yoke times after I got my T2. I think I did try putting the CH pedals on the T2- but it didn't work for some reason. But they are compatible? And can I split the axis with the switch of the CH pedals? If so, I guess I'll try it all over again, see what went wrong.

Hello Dave; First thank you for your informative reply!! I see what you mean but when I "trailbrake" I am usually feathering my gas and brake in "synchopastion"{my word.} I raced motorcyles professionally many moons ago and this is how we got thru the turns chicanes etc. We'd dive into each turn almost till we were sliding off the bikes on the low side. Then feather the gas/brake as hard & fast as we could. {I raced mostly 1/4, 1/2 + 1 mile dirt and short-track} The same work great {For me} in Gpl too! Its alot of fun too! Next I have to get the right stick for SBK so I can do it here too.. I need a stick that I can brake/gas togther. Is there such an animal? All suggestions are welcome!! Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts.

Quoted text (75 lines)

> Well, you can somewhat... trail braking in the real sense means you are > finishing your braking and turning in at the same time... you have the > brakes on lightly as the turn starts. With the right setup, this can > allow you to brake later and still get a nice turn-in. > I have a Flightstick (old, beatup and as loose as a 60-year-old ***) > and I can "occasionally" do it... Wolfie I think may do it more, but he > obviously has more finesse on the j-stick than me. But you can do it, it > just takes concentration and smoothness. > --Dave > "^Fretts > > I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98. > > Since > > 93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake" > > all > > the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on > > the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem} > > So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or > > Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there > > & I am sorry if I missed you! > > Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick > > only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this > > can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without > > pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique > > with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng> > > know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud} > > All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts... > > > Dag Dab It! > > > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for > > > $50. > > > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH > > > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals > > > to no avail. > > > Is it me or what? > > > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 > > > That sucks. > > > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. > > > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, > > > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the > > > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal > > > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. > > > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these > > > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you > > > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I > > > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) > > > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. > > > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just > > > trying to keep the car straight... > > > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with > > > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to > > > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my > > > moving my hand maybe 4 inches. > > > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a > > > wheel. > > > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? > > > Am I crazy? > > > -- > > > -Gunslinger- > -- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

n2rif1.vcf < 1K Download

Tadej; First thank you for your reply! At least I "kinda" know how Wolf W races! I too use the brake ratio of 53-54% in all my new setups & it helps me slide better. If you read my reply to Dave Schwabe you will see why I race the way I do. My only draw'back is I must do all my stuff on the wheel. This gets tense at times when I'm down shifting into{eg Lesmo}just starting to setup for a right turn.. Then feather my gas/brake in a syncopated manner! Any ideas? Remember I'm doing all on the steering wheel with a pair of hands 2'thumbs/8'fingers. ;O) Thom j. aka ^Fretts..

Quoted text (86 lines)

> I know him well, we chat sometimes via ICQ. :o) > The thing is that Wolfie doesn't trail brake much, > but when he does, his setup is understeering enough > so he doesn't have to correct with tapping the brake. > It's that simple. And btw. you can be fast without trail > braking too. Another approach is to use little brake ratio > (at 53 or 54%) which causes the ideal braking into the > turn and you can brake and turn, but obviously all in the > friction circle because you can't reach over the limit and > stay on the track for a long time ;-) > Cheers, > Tadej > ^Fretts > > I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98. > > Since > > 93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake" > > all > > the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on > > the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem} > > So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or > > Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there > > & I am sorry if I missed you! > > Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick > > only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this > > can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without > > pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique > > with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng> > > know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud} > > All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts... > > > Dag Dab It! > > > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for > > > $50. > > > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH > > > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals > > > to no avail. > > > Is it me or what? > > > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00 > > > That sucks. > > > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick. > > > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close, > > > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the > > > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal > > > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it. > > > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these > > > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you > > > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I > > > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas) > > > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet. > > > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just > > > trying to keep the car straight... > > > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with > > > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to > > > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my > > > moving my hand maybe 4 inches. > > > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a > > > wheel. > > > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse? > > > Am I crazy? > > > -- > > > -Gunslinger- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Thom j. > > HTML Mail > > Additional Information: > > Last Name j. > > First Name Thom > > Version 2.1

n2rif1.vcf < 1K Download

You can be fast with whatever controller suits your style. Me and my brother often do short Races on a LAN and because we have only one wheel and he doesn't like driving with the CH Flightstick, i'll use it to drive and my Laptimes are often even faster than those I can do with the T2 (1.05x at the Glen compared to 1.06x with the T2). The only problem I have with the stick is that after a while my arm gets very, very tired and i can't maintain the neccessary precision any longer. In longer races the wheel is much better than the stick IMHO.

>'Slinger... you use pushing forward on the stick as accelerate, pulling >back as brake and side-to-side for the obvious. Buttons do the >shifting... I haven't lapped the Glen in a while, but i've gone 1:04.3 >in the Lotus and 1:04.9 in the Brabham with a dilapitated FlightStick in >the above configuration.... I always thought I'd need to upgrade my present TM GP1 to a dual-axis pedal setup in order to crack 1:05. Now I know I just suck... :-) On the plus side, I already own a dilapidated Flightstick so I'm halfway there! Martin Nigel Mansell RIP!

GP2 trained me to do that in a hurry! Mikey (Still feeling my trusty old CH Flightstick!) <too easy a shot - don't take it>

Quoted text (13 lines)

|The only way to do it for analogue control. Only problem is braking and |turning at the same time. It is extremely difficult to pull back to brake |whilst holding a constant arc with the steering. After a while it becomes |second nature but it takes practice. | |Mark |>You can use the forward/backward movement of the stick for |>accelerator/brake. Well, some people can, I can't. |> |>Remco |> | |

I had them to work... I had to do some tweaking, still (because the second axis of Joystick 1 wasn't allowed). You can split them or not (single or dual-axis). Try to install the CH Pedal software on their website (chproducts.com). -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Well that's exactly what I had in mind. Tyre wear is almost the most important aspect on ovals (well Im excluding those short pickups race, real racing is on 30%+ lenghts ;-D ). There is always some exceptions, but I guess they are much more rare than with GPL due to the nature of racing on ovals. I agree :-) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:54:57 -0400, "CombatWombat" <COMBATWOMBAT(REMOVE >As for the peddles moving around and being too close together, i can agree >with you there. You can remedy the sliding. I got some of this ***y >sheet stuff (real specific i know, think it's used in cabinets so you don't >scratch up the good dishes) and simply put the peddles on top of that. To keep my T2 pedals from sliding around, I made a sort of holder from a 1 inch (2.5 cm) thick piece of wood. It's 17 inches (43 cm) long and has a notch cut into it to hold the pedals, with a couple of slots for the pedals to move back and forth in. the back edge of the wood is against the wall to keep the pedals sliding forward and the notch keeps it from sliding from side to side. The 17 inch length was determined to be the best distance for my desk and driving position, so that distance would probably be different for you (put the pedals where you like them and measure to the wall, adding an inch or so to allow for the notch). It's 23 inches (58 cm) wide, but that's because that is how wide the piece of wood happened to be before I cut it. As for the pedals being too close together, I know what you mean but I manage to get by. I find it's not a problem for me unless I'm wearing shoes. The pedals are not symmetrical, so maybe you could take the brake pedal off, flip it upside down, and reattach it to the other side of the pedal arm. Again, they are not symmetrical so I don't know how well this would work, if it would work at all. There's a peg stop to keep the pedal from flipping too far back and it looks like it might be a problem. Maybe it could be cut off and moved. --- Jet Jaguar I have a spam blocking address. Replying to me is like pulling teeth. Visit my crappy home page at http://home.att.net/~chmilnir/ MSTie #54297 The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last.

> WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have > instant gas and instant brake, no in between. > I don't see how it is possible. It is if you use the joystick forward and backwards motion as throttle and braking. 8-) *Peter* #:-)

1:03?!? How did he attach the warp nacelles to his Lotus(or whatever)? Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Quoted text (16 lines)

>>As for the peddles moving around and being too close together, i can agree >>with you there. You can remedy the sliding. I got some of this ***y >>sheet stuff (real specific i know, think it's used in cabinets so you don't >>scratch up the good dishes) and simply put the peddles on top of that. >To keep my T2 pedals from sliding around, I made a sort of holder from >a 1 inch (2.5 cm) thick piece of wood. It's 17 inches (43 cm) long >and has a notch cut into it to hold the pedals, with a couple of slots >for the pedals to move back and forth in. the back edge of the wood >is against the wall to keep the pedals sliding forward and the notch >keeps it from sliding from side to side. The 17 inch length was >determined to be the best distance for my desk and driving position, >so that distance would probably be different for you (put the pedals >where you like them and measure to the wall, adding an inch or so to >allow for the notch). It's 23 inches (58 cm) wide, but that's because >that is how wide the piece of wood happened to be before I cut it.

If you're racing on carpet, try this - Take the feet off the base. Get a couple strips of velcro connectors. Attach the 'hook' part of the velcro to the bottom ot the pedal base. It sticks to the carpet great, and is still easily removable. :) Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.