camber question?

Hi, Assume a nonsteering wheel : according to the figure on : http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/dtipssuspension.html it seems that the camber is the result of the inclination, but in LFS for example you can set all 5 shown parameters independently. Could anybody shed some light on this :) Cheers, Tom

"Tom De Muer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3ff83b5c$0$1148$[email hidden]... > Hi, > > Assume a nonsteering wheel : according to the figure on : > http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/dtipssuspension.html it seems that the camberis > the result of the inclination, but in LFS for example you can set all 5 > shown parameters independently. Could anybody shed some light on this :) > > Cheers, > Tom He's talking about how camber CHANGES during wheel movement. The example given only considered wishbone suspension and is correct to a point . Trailing link suspension doesn't change camber ( but MAY change caster if the upper and lower links are different lengths ) I don't have LFS, but I assume what you are allowed to enter is the STATIC value for these 5 parameters. Any decent race suspension will enable you to adjust everything in a static situation. How it behaves under compression and extension may not be modelled on the game. If it was, then they would have to get smart about the type of suspension and control inks. Leave it to others to confirm LFS.

"Tom De Muer" wrote...

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> Hi, > > Assume a nonsteering wheel : according to the figure on : > http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/dtipssuspension.html it seems > that the camber is the result of the inclination, but in > LFS for example you can set all 5 shown parameters > independently. Could anybody shed some light on this :)

Yes, but that figure is for a "steering" wheel and 3 of those 5 factors (inclination, scrub radius and castor angle) only apply to those (as they do in LFS). That's steering geometry and almost independant of suspension geometry. These 3 factors can have an effect on camber as the wheels are steered. See certain Formula Vee's and, most famously, the 2CV for a graphic example (<--- now that car, in rallycross gise, would be a hoot in LFS <g>) Non steering wheels only have camber and toe. Camber can change over travel as a function of suspension geometrie, following the so called camber curve. If you really want to know about this stuff, read "Tune to Win" by Carroll Smith, take two aspirin and don't call me in the morning. <vbg> Jan. =---

Unless you take into account bump steer, which is very important for multi-link suspensions. Then all the parameters still mean something. No sim that I know of actually allows you to control this and I doubt that any of them even model it (it *might* be modelled in F1C if they set the links up right), but it is a real thing. Sorry Jan, couldn't let that one go. ;o) "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iRYJb.114984$[email hidden]... > > Non steering wheels only have camber and toe. >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Unless you take into account bump steer, which is very important for > multi-link suspensions. Then all the parameters still mean something. No > sim that I know of actually allows you to control this and I doubt thatany

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> of them even model it (it *might* be modelled in F1C if they set the links > up right), but it is a real thing. > > Sorry Jan, couldn't let that one go. ;o) > > > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:iRYJb.114984$[email hidden]... > > > > Non steering wheels only have camber and toe. > >

Both thx for the replies, esp. Jan which in private conversation gave some extra explanation ;-) Cheers, Tom

"Haqsau" wrote... > Unless you take into account bump steer, which is very > important for multi-link suspensions. Then all the > parameters still mean something. Bump steer is an effect due to track and radius rods also being attached to the wheel hub/uprights. As I understand it, it is adjusted out as much as possible by moving the attachment points of same up/down slightly by shimming, not by changing inclination/scrubradius/caster. Nor, again: if I understand correctly, does the adjustment affect static camber/toe. > No sim that I know of actually allows you to control > this and I doubt that any of them even model it (it > *might* be modelled in F1C if they set the links up > right), but it is a real thing. I know, I just don't see how it pertains to the question. Which, I'll admit, only understood afterwards as well. > Sorry Jan, couldn't let that one go. ;o) Jeez... no respect. ;-) Jan. =---

From a practical standpoint you are correct but from a purely geometric standpoint you can still define an instant axis of rotation which gives you an effective scrub radius, etc. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NBiKb.116656$[email hidden]... > > Bump steer is an effect due to track and radius rods also being attachedto > the wheel hub/uprights. As I understand it, it is adjusted out as much as > possible by moving the attachment points of same up/down slightly by > shimming, not by changing inclination/scrubradius/caster. Nor, again: if I > understand correctly, does the adjustment affect static camber/toe. >