Toe in/out, positive/negitive

Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... // | \\ | This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) Is this correct? \\ | // | This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) Is that correct? ============================ Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... // <> \\ This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) Is this correct? \\ <> // This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) Is this correct? ============================= -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

yes.

Quoted text (43 lines)

> Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > // | \\ > | >This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) >Is this correct? > \\ | // > | > This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) >Is that correct? >============================ >Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... > // <> \\ > This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) >Is this correct? > \\ <> // > This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) >Is this correct? >============================= >-- >========================================= >Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? >MikeBa on the TEN network. >Member of R.O.R. 1999 >http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html >========================================= >Racing online with the help of...... >Race Communications Association >http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html >Holodyne Engineering >Mystic Music

> Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > // | \\ > | >This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) >Is this correct? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Ok, what did I win? Remco

Quoted text (33 lines)

> > Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > > // | \\ > > | > >This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) > >Is this correct? > Yes. > > \\ | // > > | > > This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) > >Is that correct? > Yes. > >Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... > > // <> \\ > > This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) > >Is this correct? > Yes. > > \\ <> // > > This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) > >Is this correct? > Yes. > Ok, what did I win?

You won a free VROC race of your choice! ;-) Thanks, Mike Barlow ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Quoted text (30 lines)

> yes. > > Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > > // | \\ > > | > >This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) > >Is this correct? > > \\ | // > > | > > This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) > >Is that correct? > >============================ > >Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... > > // <> \\ > > This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) > >Is this correct? > > \\ <> // > > This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) > >Is this correct? > >=============================

Thanks, Mike Barlow -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Nope, sorry guys but the correct is: > Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > // | \\ > | > This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) > Is this correct? This is positive toe-in (as pointing your toes towards each-other This is negative toe-in or also called toe-out!! The camber story is allright as is ;-))

Quoted text (31 lines)

> ============================ > Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... > // <> \\ > This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) > Is this correct? > \\ <> // > This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) > Is this correct? > ============================= > -- > ========================================= > Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? > MikeBa on the TEN network. > Member of R.O.R. 1999 > http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html > ========================================= > Racing online with the help of...... > Race Communications Association > http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html > Holodyne Engineering > Mystic Music

Janro van de Breevaart Bravenboer

Camber is correct, toe is just the opposite. It helps to think of it as "toe in"(positive number) and "toe out(negative number). Easier to visualize. Scott Moore <snip>

Right on the camber, wrong on the toe... --Dave

Quoted text (43 lines)

> Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > // | \\ > | > This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) > Is this correct? > \\ | // > | > This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) > Is that correct? > ============================ > Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... > // <> \\ > This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) > Is this correct? > \\ <> // > This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) > Is this correct? > ============================= > -- > ========================================= > Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? > MikeBa on the TEN network. > Member of R.O.R. 1999 > http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html > ========================================= > Racing online with the help of...... > Race Communications Association > http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html > Holodyne Engineering > Mystic Music

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Wrong-o! The operative word is "toe-IN." If you are creating a postive value, then you are toeing the wheels IN at the front, pointing at each other at the front. Negative toe-in, also known as TOE-OUT, is when the wheels start pointing in opposite directions at the front. --Dave

Quoted text (35 lines)

> > Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > > // | \\ > > | > >This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) > >Is this correct? > Yes. > > \\ | // > > | > > This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) > >Is that correct? > Yes. > >Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... > > // <> \\ > > This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) > >Is this correct? > Yes. > > \\ <> // > > This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) > >Is this correct? > Yes. > Ok, what did I win? > Remco

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Yep, Jarno is right! :-) --Dave

Quoted text (57 lines)

> Nope, sorry guys but the correct is: > > Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... > > // | \\ > > | > > This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) > > Is this correct? > This is positive toe-in (as pointing your toes towards each-other > > \\ | // > > | > > This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) > > Is that correct? > This is negative toe-in or also called toe-out!! > The camber story is allright as is ;-)) > > ============================ > > Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... > > // <> \\ > > This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) > > Is this correct? > > \\ <> // > > This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) > > Is this correct? > > ============================= > > -- > > ========================================= > > Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? > > MikeBa on the TEN network. > > Member of R.O.R. 1999 > > http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html > > ========================================= > > Racing online with the help of...... > > Race Communications Association > > http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html > > Holodyne Engineering > > Mystic Music > Janro van de Breevaart Bravenboer

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Mike, You have the toe in and toe out backwards. However the camber is correct. Toe in is // \\ Toe out is \\ // assuming the top of the page is the front of the car. Use toe in to help "steady" a car that is wandering all over the place. I found the Eagle tended to wander quite a bit down the straight away after the esses... one click of toe in did the job <VBG> Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

No it isn't. Toe in is with the front of the tires closer together than the back of the tires (the toes are pointed in), negative toe in is when they face away from each other ergo toe OUT. Thats why POSITIVE toe in (which is toe in) is more stable and Negative toe in (toe OUT) turns better (due to the fact that the outside of the car has to travel farther than the inside and the outside has a larger radius turn which in turn doesn't have to turn as much so toe out keeps the tires on track better) Jesse

Quoted text (50 lines)

|yes. | |> Assuming the top of this email is the front of the car... |> |> // | \\ |> | |>This would be considered 20* negative toe in. (-20*) |>Is this correct? |> |> \\ | // |> | |> This would be 20* positive toe in. (+20) |>Is that correct? |> |>============================ |> |>Assuming you're looking at the car from the front... |> |> // <> \\ |> |> This would be 20* negative camber. (-20) |>Is this correct? |> |> \\ <> // |> |> This would be 20* positive camber. (+20) |>Is this correct? |>============================= |> |>-- |>========================================= |>Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? |>MikeBa on the TEN network. |>Member of R.O.R. 1999 |>http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html |>========================================= |>Racing online with the help of...... |> |>Race Communications Association |>http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html |> |>Holodyne Engineering |> |>Mystic Music |> |> | |

No, just the opposite. Yes, this is correct. Randy

>Wrong-o! The operative word is "toe-IN." If you are creating a postive >value, then you are toeing the wheels IN at the front, pointing at each >other at the front. Negative toe-in, also known as TOE-OUT, is when the >wheels start pointing in opposite directions at the front. You're right, of course, I am wrong. For punishment I am not allowed to race GPL tonight. And I've to return my prize, a free VROC race, to Mike. Weeeeeeeh. However, my response to Mike was with GPL in mind. I did read toe-in as toe. Oopsy. I don't have GPL at hand right now (you know, punishment), but isn't the description in the setup screen toe-in for the font toe? Remco

Thanks. NOW I'm confused. Who's right ?

Yes ackermann is the positioning of the steering rods so that you need no toe out and when you turn, the inside tire turns more than the outside which increases as you turn more. There have been big depates about its use and efficiency (Carol Smith has a lot of info on it in one of his great books). Just wanted to tell everyone a GENERAL jist on it so they aren't going "WTF is that?" Jesse | |>No it isn't. Toe in is with the front of the tires closer together than the |>back of the tires (the toes are pointed in), negative toe in is when they |>face away from each other ergo toe OUT. Thats why POSITIVE toe in (which is |>toe in) is more stable and Negative toe in (toe OUT) turns better (due to |>the fact that the outside of the car has to travel farther than the inside |>and the outside has a larger radius turn which in turn doesn't have to turn

Quoted text (10 lines)

|>as much so toe out keeps the tires on track better) | |The difference between tire angles is commonly known as "Ackermann" angle. |But that's another thing altogether, toe out (negative toe in) gets you the |same affect. | | |Don McCorkle |Libertarian Motorsports |

Quoted text (7 lines)

>No it isn't. Toe in is with the front of the tires closer together than the >back of the tires (the toes are pointed in), negative toe in is when they >face away from each other ergo toe OUT. Thats why POSITIVE toe in (which is >toe in) is more stable and Negative toe in (toe OUT) turns better (due to >the fact that the outside of the car has to travel farther than the inside >and the outside has a larger radius turn which in turn doesn't have to turn >as much so toe out keeps the tires on track better)

The difference between tire angles is commonly known as "Ackermann" angle. But that's another thing altogether, toe out (negative toe in) gets you the same affect. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

The original post had the right camber. The toe in is reversed (toe-in means that tyres are pointing to the nose of the car, toe-out means, they're pointing away from the car). Tadej > Thanks. NOW I'm confused. Who's right ?

hehe... Me, Randy Cassidy, Jarno... we're right. The others are merely confused! :-) --Dave > Thanks. NOW I'm confused. Who's right ? -- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

What amazes me is how big this supposedly simple post grew! And the number of people who are a bit confused about toe-in. Mikey