Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

I don't know whether this is possible or not, but it is frustrating not being able to join most races on vroc lately because I don't own N99 or N2. Which means I don't have the raw material for the track converter to work from, and so can't create the "new GPL tracks". Is it possible for the required files to be made available for download? - either in pre- or post- converted form would be great. I don't feel there would be anything *morally* wrong with this, as I own my copy of GPL - but don't want to buy/can't afford to get the other games. My apologies if this request offends some people. Cheers Alan.

Its illegal. You can get ahold of N2 from used software retailers for like 9 bucks.

The Pits have a firm and stated anti-piracy policy and since these are not tracks from GPL but are part of other games, I think they are quite right to ensure that you already own those games. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this wasn't a condition of Papyrus allowing them to go ahead - after developing a track is a very time consuming and therefore expensive task. Papyrus have given us GPL, ICR2, N2 and N99 - you bought GPL, good for you, but you should buy the other games if you want to use the tracks contained in them. Besides none of us want to see Papy do anything but succeed in the market place so that they can go on developing what is quite clearly the most realistic physics engine of any racing title out there. Look at it like this - you spend $1500 on computer hardware but only a fraction of that on each racing simulation. You can probably get N2 and ICR2 in the bargain ba***t which will give you 3 tracks of the 5 tracks. Dubai is free from the pits. Cheers, Paul

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> I don't know whether this is possible or not, but it is frustrating > not being able to join most races on vroc lately because I don't own > N99 or N2. Which means I don't have the raw material for the track > converter to work from, and so can't create the "new GPL tracks". > Is it possible for the required files to be made available for > download? - either in pre- or post- converted form would be great. > I don't feel there would be anything *morally* wrong with this, as I > own my copy of GPL - but don't want to buy/can't afford to get the > other games. > My apologies if this request offends some people. > Cheers > Alan.

<alan> wrote Yes I understand your need... you have your GPL copy but you don't have a copy of Nascar Racing 2 or Nascar Racing 99, thus is makes it illegal, since that would mean posting copyrighted code by Papyrus (the complete track folder converted or not). And be sure that I know about what's legal and what's not :) You can buy Nascar Racing 99 for about 25$ US.. and it will be even less when the converter will be released (no idea when). I feel it's quite a good investment.. since you also have N2 tracks on the CD (NR99 is missing Pocono and North Wilkesbor, and N2 has old configurations of some tracks). Oh yes to the VROC group.. any indication if there will be adjustments made to the software for the new tracks ? There's many bug now with the tracks (200+minute time left to some races). Especially on the names of the track. Because in the converter.. you have Icr2 Loudon and N2 loudon. Those two tracks are physically different, but in VROC they are shown by the same name.. could be important to determinate them.. maybe with a thing in front (N2Nwhamp, I2Nwhamp, N99Nwhamp). There is tracks from N2 to NR99 who are just a little different (Bristol, Texas, C***te), so it could create some bad stuff online if somebody has a N2 C***te and NR99 c***te on the same time (Turn4 is different. alot smoother in NR99). We will need to create some sort of agreement toward that... very important. VERY -- -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:38:49 -0600, "Chris Schletter" >Its illegal. You can get ahold of N2 from used software retailers for like >9 bucks. OK, I take the point made by another poster about $1500 worth of computer equipment.... But here in Perth Australia the only place I've seen selling "old" games charges $A40-$60 for them - we don't seem to have the cheap "old" software like in US and UK. I know I should buy the stuff online - but to me that raises other questions about supporting local industry (and not wanting to support those countries whose economies rely on selling arms to the third world - I've just finished reading John Pilger's excellent Hidden Agendas <g>). Perhaps someone could work out what *percentage* of the other games I would be getting, and I would be very happy to send the same percentage of the original selling price of the game to Papyrus, in return for getting those tracks, but not the rest of the game. Alan.

> I don't feel there would be anything *morally* wrong with this, as I > own my copy of GPL - but don't want to buy/can't afford to get the > other games. You are saying because you cannot afford something, its ok to obtain a pirated version. Wrong, I'm sure thats what every burglar, bank robber, and mugger tells himself too. Obviously your m***standards are not very high? You also say you don't want to buy the games, but you want to use the tracks from these very same games? Not much of an argument is it really? Just buy the games. Electronic Boutique had a three game "Sierra" pack recently which included N2 & ICR2 for 20 ukp. Put some money back into the industry. Do the right thing. It does, *BUY THE GAMES*!!! *Peter*

> I know I should buy the stuff online > - but to me that raises other questions about supporting local > industry (and not wanting to support those countries whose economies > rely on selling arms to the third world - I've just finished reading > John Pilger's excellent Hidden Agendas <g>). I don't think that Papyrus are involved in the arms trade. I also doubt that any of the trivial amount of money that you spend on buying N2/ICR2/N99 would end up any where the arms trade - don't tar the whole of the US and UK with the same brush. Like Australia doesn't export arms and related equipment! Besides you have already spent money on GPL a good proportion of which has wound up in US hands. You may not accept the above arguments and may wish to boycott the makers of the finest simulation software in the world - fine - you only m***alternative is to not race on these new tracks. Remember the old adage "Two wrongs do not make a right". Punishing Papyrus for the sins of the arms trade through piracy doesn't exactly seem just to me. Besides why does it matter when this excellant software was developed? You are happy to benefit from the work that the crew at the Pits do for nothing (and they come from non-Australian arms exporting countries) but you baulk at rewarding the large amounts of effort put in by essentially similarly motivated people (the staff at Papyrus). Let's apply Immanual Kant's ethical formula to this one - "how would it be if everyone did this?" - easy, Papyrus would go broke and GPL would be the last quality simulation for quite some time. Ho, hum.....buy it or wait until an Australian company develop a simulation of equivalent quality, which, if everyone were to apply your morality about supporting local industry, will fail in the market place because Australia's market is not big enough to support such a niche product. Cheers, Paul

Someone already has the tracks up on a WEB site. BAD NEWS!!! Wayne

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> > I don't feel there would be anything *morally* wrong with this, as I > > own my copy of GPL - but don't want to buy/can't afford to get the > > other games. > You are saying because you cannot afford something, its ok to obtain a > pirated version. Wrong, I'm sure thats what every burglar, bank > robber, and mugger tells himself too. Obviously your m***standards > are not very high? > You also say you don't want to buy the games, but you want to use the > tracks from these very same games? > Not much of an argument is it really? > Just buy the games. Electronic Boutique had a three game "Sierra" pack > recently which included N2 & ICR2 for 20 ukp. Put some money back > into the industry. Do the right thing. > > My apologies if this request offends some people. > It does, *BUY THE GAMES*!!! > *Peter*

Uh huh. Get a grip. Either spend the dough and buy the remaining two games of the three required for the converter to work as specified, or don't. Hidden agendas, yeah right.....

I know a guy that had it up on his site for a while but took it down after people told him it was wrong. Some people out there are just inconsiderate and don't care about the companies that make these products. I just hope that they learn after this little running that posting copyrighted material "is bad, uhm K" (Southpark). Ok, done with my rant. Jesse

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|Someone already has the tracks up on a WEB site. BAD NEWS!!! | |Wayne | |> |> > I don't feel there would be anything *morally* wrong with this, as I |> > own my copy of GPL - but don't want to buy/can't afford to get the |> > other games. |> |> You are saying because you cannot afford something, its ok to obtain a |> pirated version. Wrong, I'm sure thats what every burglar, bank |> robber, and mugger tells himself too. Obviously your m***standards |> are not very high? |> |> You also say you don't want to buy the games, but you want to use the |> tracks from these very same games? |> |> Not much of an argument is it really? |> |> Just buy the games. Electronic Boutique had a three game "Sierra" pack |> recently which included N2 & ICR2 for 20 ukp. Put some money back |> into the industry. Do the right thing. |> |> > My apologies if this request offends some people. |> |> It does, *BUY THE GAMES*!!! |> |> *Peter* | |

>> I know I should buy the stuff online >> - but to me that raises other questions about supporting local >> industry (and not wanting to support those countries whose economies >> rely on selling arms to the third world - I've just finished reading >> John Pilger's excellent Hidden Agendas <g>). Read Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael" to find out why arms are being traded in the first place, it really makes fascinating reading. There's a website too: http://bnetwork.com Cheers, Uwe -- Spam-proof e-mail: Uwe Schuerkamp <hoover at telemedia . de> http://www.telemedia.de/~hoover ////// Phone: +49-5241-80-10-66 Best of Scottish Folk: http://home.pages.de/~nsg >>> Blue Ribbon Campaign: Support Free Speech on the Internet <<<

>Is it possible for the required files to be made available for >download? - either in pre- or post- converted form would be great. I already owned ICR2, CART Racing, N2, and the BGN expansion pack, but I immediately went out and bought NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition to get Homestead. And I was glad to do it. Come on! Support the people who gave us these fantastic sims, rather than stealing from them. Alison Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

>...Regardless... this isn't 'stealing'. You're not playing the game >as it was sold on the retail shelf. You're using a hacked likeness of one >of the 'levels' contained therein. So do you really think that its not stealing if you only take a PART of someone else's work and effort? It doesn't matter that it's not the complete game... some programmer took the time to put that track together, and should be compensated for his/her work. It doesn't matter if it's been hacked or not...you're still using part of their copyrighted creation. For more on this, see countless lawsuits due to sampling in the music industry.

Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate. >On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:38:49 -0600, "Chris Schletter" >>Its illegal. You can get ahold of N2 from used software retailers for like

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>>9 bucks. >OK, I take the point made by another poster about $1500 worth of >computer equipment.... >But here in Perth Australia the only place I've seen selling "old" >games charges $A40-$60 for them - we don't seem to have the cheap >"old" software like in US and UK. I know I should buy the stuff online >- but to me that raises other questions about supporting local >industry (and not wanting to support those countries whose economies >rely on selling arms to the third world - I've just finished reading >John Pilger's excellent Hidden Agendas <g>). >Perhaps someone could work out what *percentage* of the other games I >would be getting, and I would be very happy to send the same >percentage of the original selling price of the game to Papyrus, in >return for getting those tracks, but not the rest of the game. >Alan.

There are forums for this type of discussion and rec.auto's ain't one of them. P.S. As an Australian you should be thankfull that the American interests also included the saving of Australia, Without them we would be speaking Japanese but they did it to stop Japs having a new base, not because they felt any sympathy for the Australian public. After all, they let England struggle againt the Nazis for years without aid but ovepriced and outdated equipment which they made England pay for for decades after the war.

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> Yes........sure we would. Once again the American ego leaps to the > immediate conclusion that their lot in life has been to act as saviour of > oppressed nations since the pilgrims sat down and had roast turkey for lunch > before slaughtering their Indian hosts. > Thanks for reminding us of that. > >Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate.

I trust you mean "an" American ego rather than "the." I love your insight and your humor on this forum. However, I don't want to believe that you are a bigot and would characterize the attitude of an individual as that of an entire nation. No one wins these pissing matches. Please let it end here. Jim

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> Yes........sure we would. Once again the American ego leaps to the > immediate conclusion that their lot in life has been to act as saviour of > oppressed nations since the pilgrims sat down and had roast turkey for lunch > before slaughtering their Indian hosts. > Thanks for reminding us of that. > >Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate.

hehe... yes, Bruce, I am American, but like nearly all countries, plenty of contradictions can be found throughout history... --Dave

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> Yes........sure we would. Once again the American ego leaps to the > immediate conclusion that their lot in life has been to act as saviour of > oppressed nations since the pilgrims sat down and had roast turkey for lunch > before slaughtering their Indian hosts. > Thanks for reminding us of that. > >Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate.

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

So then, in your estimation, copying the entire package minus, say, the best laps page would be okay as long as you didn't sell it. I fail to see the ethical difference between pirating some of a product and pirating all of it. Legally, of course, they own the copyright. Incidently, putting together the tracks is one of the most time consuming and labour intensive bit of releasing a sim - look at the number of location and artwork staff in the credits of GPL and other sims. Also I would imagine that to use of the tracks they would have had to pay a licence fee. Cheers, Paul

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> >>...Regardless... this isn't 'stealing'. You're not playing the game > >>as it was sold on the retail shelf. You're using a hacked likeness of one > >>of the 'levels' contained therein. > > So do you really think that its not stealing if you only take a PART of > > someone else's work and effort? > "Taking it"? No. > > It doesn't matter that it's not the > > complete game... some programmer took the time to put that track together, > > and should be compensated for his/her work. > I agree. I don't think that buying a $40 game is the solution to > obtaining _a track_ to race on another piece of software purchased from > this same company, though. > > It doesn't matter if it's been > > hacked or not...you're still using part of their copyrighted creation. For > > more on this, see countless lawsuits due to sampling in the music industry. > The groups doing the sampling are also _reselling_ the music the created > using a previously revorded song. There's a difference. > If someone ripped all of the tracks out of NASCAR/99, etc. and tried > peddling it on the web for $10 or something, then there definitely would > be an problem. > Preventing redistribution of the files for private use is nonsense. > -j.c.h.

Yes........sure we would. Once again the American ego leaps to the immediate conclusion that their lot in life has been to act as saviour of oppressed nations since the pilgrims sat down and had roast turkey for lunch before slaughtering their Indian hosts. Thanks for reminding us of that. >Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate.

I reckopn Australia has to be the worst place in the world for Piracy. I think for every PCX titled sold there are probably four copies.

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> > I know I should buy the stuff online > > - but to me that raises other questions about supporting local > > industry (and not wanting to support those countries whose economies > > rely on selling arms to the third world - I've just finished reading > > John Pilger's excellent Hidden Agendas <g>). > I don't think that Papyrus are involved in the arms trade. I also doubt that any > of the trivial amount of money that you spend on buying N2/ICR2/N99 would end up > any where the arms trade - don't tar the whole of the US and UK with the same > brush. Like Australia doesn't export arms and related equipment! Besides you > have already spent money on GPL a good proportion of which has wound up in US > hands. > You may not accept the above arguments and may wish to boycott the makers of the > finest simulation software in the world - fine - you only m***alternative is > to not race on these new tracks. Remember the old adage "Two wrongs do not make > a right". Punishing Papyrus for the sins of the arms trade through piracy > doesn't exactly seem just to me. Besides why does it matter when this excellant > software was developed? You are happy to benefit from the work that the crew at > the Pits do for nothing (and they come from non-Australian arms exporting > countries) but you baulk at rewarding the large amounts of effort put in by > essentially similarly motivated people (the staff at Papyrus). Let's apply > Immanual Kant's ethical formula to this one - "how would it be if everyone did > this?" - easy, Papyrus would go broke and GPL would be the last quality > simulation for quite some time. > Ho, hum.....buy it or wait until an Australian company develop a simulation of > equivalent quality, which, if everyone were to apply your morality about > supporting local industry, will fail in the market place because Australia's > market is not big enough to support such a niche product. > Cheers, > Paul

Sure, lets see... threre's Dubai, Phoenix, Louden, Homestead, Hickory. I think I'm forgettin one. OH well, once you purchase the needed tracks on CD then you can convert all of them. Then remind me which one I forgot.

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>I am saying that using the track files from a Papyrus product in >conjunction with a Papyrus product that you've already purchased should >have no remifications whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I'd rather see >Papy release the addon tracks themselves. See an about post on this >thread to the likeness of Quake and it's hundreds of levels available... a >few of them are exact models of other games in the Quake/Doom series. >Isn't this kind of a blatantly obvious comparison?

iD has INTENTIONALLY made making levels an OPEN standard. Papyrus has INTENTIONALLY NOT allowed for tracks to be made. They've made it OBVIOUS that they don't want tracks from one program running on another (still don't understand why they don't offer track addons, but...). Therefore your comparison is invalid. If you already own them, you wouldn't have to buy them. If you don't - buy 'em used off the games.marketplace NG. Otherwise, it's against the license - regardless of your personal opinion. "Gunner"

> I am saying that using the track files from a Papyrus product in > conjunction with a Papyrus product that you've already purchased should > have no remifications whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I'd rather see > Papy release the addon tracks themselves. See an about post on this > thread to the likeness of Quake and it's hundreds of levels available... a > few of them are exact models of other games in the Quake/Doom series. > Isn't this kind of a blatantly obvious comparison? Sure, if you don't look very deeply. The Quake levels are entirely the property of the developer and/or publisher. They're free to do whatever the heck they'd like with them. Have you ever bothered to read the credits and/or copyright statements in one of our games (or the manual)? Every single name, mark, or likeness of a track, billboard, sponsor, driver, team, etc. is under license from some individual or business entity. Whether or not we'd "mind" that you would like to mix and match pieces of our different products is irrelevant. Whether our contracts with our licensors allow us to use _their_ property in this manner, and how much it would cost us are relevant. I have no clue about the former, but I can assure you the latter would not be $0. Randy

The modern Watkins Glen, Cheers, Paul > Sure, lets see... > threre's Dubai, Phoenix, Louden, Homestead, Hickory. > I think I'm forgettin one. OH well, once you purchase the needed tracks on > CD then you can convert all of them. > Then remind me which one I forgot.