Ok, now that I have pedals with separate gas/brake axis, I need
trail-braking lessons. I know what it is, but not how to make it
really effective. Any tips? How can trail-braking be used to my best
advantage?
I also play Viper. Do the same techniques apply there?
Joe
To use trail braking effectively you need to understand not only how to
do it but how it effects the car's behavior and when to use it to your
advantage. The principle reason to use it is to 'loosen up' the car on
turn in so you can carry more speed into the turn and still hit the
apex. It uses dynamic weight transfer to the front tires under braking
when entering a turn to increase their grip at the expense of the rear
tires.
What you get is later braking, more speed entering the turn, and more
control of track position at the apex.
Haven't played Viper, but the effectiveness of trail braking there would
depend on how well it models weight transfer under braking. This is why
it can be so effective in GPL, it's physics is the best currently
available in a PC sim.
Marty
Quoted text (8 lines)
> Ok, now that I have pedals with separate gas/brake axis, I need > trail-braking lessons. I know what it is, but not how to make it > really effective. Any tips? How can trail-braking be used to my best > advantage? > I also play Viper. Do the same techniques apply there? > Joelessons.<<
You don't need seperate gas/brake axis for trail braking. Surely you have to
come right off the accelerator before you go onto the brakes otherwise the
transfer of weight is cancelled out? I'm going on the theory that if braking
shifts weight to the front, then accelereating shifts weight to the back!?
Right?
Rob, who was taught trail braking at Winfield - the place where Prost, Alesi
and Hill have all been to! But now is confused
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >>Ok, now that I have pedals with separate gas/brake axis, I need trail-braking > lessons.<< > You don't need seperate gas/brake axis for trail braking. Surely you have to > come right off the accelerator before you go onto the brakes otherwise the > transfer of weight is cancelled out? I'm going on the theory that if braking > shifts weight to the front, then accelereating shifts weight to the back!? > Right? > Rob, who was taught trail braking at Winfield - the place where Prost, Alesi > and Hill have all been to! But now is confused>>>Ok, now that I have pedals with separate gas/brake axis, I need trail-braking
>lessons.<<
>You don't need seperate gas/brake axis for trail braking. Surely you have to
>come right off the accelerator before you go onto the brakes otherwise the
>transfer of weight is cancelled out? I'm going on the theory that if braking
>shifts weight to the front, then accelereating shifts weight to the back!?
>Right?
Right. Trail braking means trailing off the brakes as you enter the corner
(and approach the apex). I have single axis pedels but I'm usually
completly off the accelerator and *** the brakes long before I begin
turn in, at which point I begin releasing (i.e., trailing off) the brakes
[increasingly] until near the apex.
And I can stab the brake or throttle with either one still on and cause
weight shift, which is useful to induce/reduce/control oversteer/understeer,
even with single axis pedels.
I think the advantage of having dual axis pedels is it allows you to
dynamically change the brake bias - a little throttle under braking will
reduce rear wheel braking, effectively changing the bias. Which of course
will cause the weight to shift, which again is useful (perhaps imparative)
to reduce/control oversteer.
<snip>
% I think the advantage of having dual axis pedels is it allows you to
% dynamically change the brake bias - a little throttle under braking will
% reduce rear wheel braking, effectively changing the bias. Which of course
% will cause the weight to shift, which again is useful (perhaps imparative)
% to reduce/control oversteer.
The other big advantage to having the brake and throttle on separate
axis is finer control over the balance of the car. I find that when I
stop to analyze it, I am doing alot of rolling off the throttle while
rolling on the brake in GPL. The actions are tied together and can't
really be accomplished with the smoothness and effectiveness if the
pedals are on the same axis. When getting back onto the power, the
reverse applies, rolling off the brake while rolling on the throttle.
If needed I can also apply hard braking while accelerating if I have
thrown the rears out too much. If done right this will straighten the
car enough to get grip and I can continue accelerating out of the turns.
Again, this doesn't translate as well if the pedals are on the same
axis.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
While trying to break my record (barely in the 1:31s) at Monza I
noticed how the speed exiting Parabolica really has to do more with
turning into the corner than braking hard. Even with moderate braking
if I can throw the front end adjacent to the inside barrier the car
will ride smoothly inside and allow me to step back on the throttle
almost right away, then gradually increase it to full once exiting.
Other times, no matter how hard I break if the front end doesn't grip
and drifts wide, I hit the sand. Trail braking should make this
maneuver easier because the weight is in the front, but then I find
the rear gets away sometimes and I can't quite do that consistently
enough yet.
-
"If the meaning of life was printed in a book, someone
would use it to keep the window open."
Hi !
I have a 1:27.07 lap at Monza and haven't used trail braking neither at Lesmo2 or
Parabolica.
You get better turn in with trailbraking, but i use 54% brake ratio (with Lotus) and
trail braking
is not possible. I conpensate for it with a bit higher coast ramp angle - set at 45 -
which is almosy
cruical to get the Lesmo2 right.
The funny thing is that I always thought that I was loosing time in Lesmo2, just to
then figure out
that I was loosing nearly 0.4sec in the Parabolica...No wonder it's world-wide known
corner <g> :o)
Tadej Krevh
Lotus Internet Racing
http://welcome.to/LotusRacingc
