Saved by a J.Stewart video (longish)

I've seen video of the cars from then. They held a line nicely and don't slide anywhere near as much as they do in the game. They looked much more stable even when racing in the rain. The AI in GPL looks realistic, but not anyone human driver that I've seen. This was all mentioned months ago actually. I'm going to make a bet with myself as to which very familiar name disagrees with me first. David G Fisher

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>After seeing and hearing this I realise that GPL is much more accurate than >I gave it credit for and it is, indeed, my lack of talent that is the >problem!! > *** !!!!! > Cheers... > Phillip.. > (back to the 3:00 a.m. practise sessions!)

Forgive me brethren, as I almost left the fold ! Let me explain: I have had GPL since the demo was first released, and the full game since the week it came out and have spent COUNTLESS hours driving round and round (and round..... etc.) first Watkins and then Monza etc. Unfortunately my times seemed to have plateaued at low 1:08's for the Glen, low 1:31's for Monza etc, and weren't improving so I left it alone for a while and did less important things like feeding the kids and putting a roof on the house etc. I then figured maybe I could improve with better hardware, so I built another P.C. just for GPL. (PII 450, 128Mb PC100, SLI V2s etc.) Not much better. Maybe it's my modified T2 that's holding me back ? Spent quite some time in my friend's Hyperstimulator, without much difference. Damn ! No other excuses - I'm just not cut out for this racing lark. But wait ! maybe it's the fact that the game isn't really realistic - surely these thoroughbreds can't have handled this unpredictably ? Yes! that's it ! the sim isn't a true representation of the cars of this era, so therefore I'll delete it from my drive and justify my lack of talent this way! But just as I was about to follow this path to damnation, a saviour in the form of a short in-car video of Jackie Stewart driving the March-Ford (I think) at Silverstone in 1969-70. Well, the car was squirming, fighting, kicking and sliding all over the shop, the wee Scott's hands were never still and he was wrestling with the wheel all the way through each corner. During the clip there was a voice-over by Jackie saying Politically- Incorrect things such as: the cars were like a woman, that they needed to be treated firmly to get the right response, and even if you treated them well, they were likely to turn *** when you least expected it! After seeing and hearing this I realise that GPL is much more accurate than I gave it credit for and it is, indeed, my lack of talent that is the problem!! *** !!!!! Cheers... Phillip.. (back to the 3:00 a.m. practise sessions!)

<snipped some good stuff> Do not dispair brother...there are a bunch of us in the same boat <g>... -don

I disagree!.....did ya pick it?! Ben

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>I've seen video of the cars from then. They held a line nicely and don't >slide anywhere near as much as they do in the game. They looked much more >stable even when racing in the rain. The AI in GPL looks realistic, but not >anyone human driver that I've seen. This was all mentioned months ago >actually. >I'm going to make a bet with myself as to which very familiar name

disagrees

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>with me first. >David G Fisher >>After seeing and hearing this I realise that GPL is much more accurate

than

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>>I gave it credit for and it is, indeed, my lack of talent that is the >>problem!! >> *** !!!!! >> Cheers... >> Phillip.. >> (back to the 3:00 a.m. practise sessions!)

the wee Scott's hands were never still and he was wrestling with the wheel all the way through each corner. During the clip there was a voice-over by Jackie saying Politically-Incorrect things such as: the cars were like a woman, that they needed to be treated firmly to get the right response, and even if you treated them well, they were likely to turn *** when you least expected it!<< Sounds like my evening at the NTT Kyalami race. Especially the unexpected *** part! Is there a limit to how many apexes a corner can have? Steve B. remove "edy" from address for email

at zandvoort ? McKafre De La Rosa >>The AI in GPL looks realistic, but not >>anyone human driver that I've seen. This was all mentioned months ago >>actually. >Last Wednesday night on VROC, I watch (I sat out that race) one of the fast >drivers race a Honda/Mur during a 6 lap race. I watch from different camera >angles including from the***pit. The guy braked at the same points >every lap, followed the groove perfectly etc.. His lap times were like >29.49, 29.29, 29.05 and so on. At least I know that great control of >the car is possible, just not by me yet.

I have to agree up onto a certain degree, many of the human drivers seem to be going sideways all over the track. Side-flipping the car whether it's a go-kart. These cars aren't suppose to be driven like that. You have to drive them smooth, that doesn't mean the car isn't sliding. You're just on the limit, with the front end and back end loosing grip almost all the time. If you control the drifts it's pretty easy to drive perfect lines. Most people have problems driving consistent lines, I think they don't use markers enough. Some corners need markers (personally I only use them for braking and almost never for turning in(in real life and in simulator racing). In real life I use a marker for the clipping point as well, but in GPL I have to admit that I usually just use the darkened area. If you look at my replay I'm right on the line, and putting in consistent lap times. I think more drivers should work on consistency, since race wins come from consistency and not from hotlapping. For people trying to become a better racing driver I suggest the following, joing a league and see what other drivers are doing (offline) on the laptime. Now just go and practise, keep driving laps with the average lap time they drive on mind. Don't go out looking at the hotlap times, these guys are great drivers as well as very good capable of setting up a car. By comparing your times to more average drivers, you'll get far more satisfaction. Just keep on driving, make markers for difficult entries. And never try to overdrive to soon. We all know where the last seconds come from, it's from trailbraking. But don't even think about trailbraking if you're not already putting in good times. It will only slowen your progression. So just keep on practising with good (not superb) as target times. Also always use the Lotus when practising, many will not agree on this, but it's just the most easy car to drive quickly. You don't have use every trick in the book to achieve good lap times. Driving traditional lines not using trail braking will bring you good times in the Lotus, while in for example the Coventry you have to drive your balls off to achieve a moderate time. Going from the Coventry to the Lotus will just leave you frustrated as you tend to overdrive every corner that comes along.

On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:37:57 -0500, "David G Fisher"

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>I've seen video of the cars from then. They held a line nicely and don't >slide anywhere near as much as they do in the game. They looked much more >stable even when racing in the rain. The AI in GPL looks realistic, but not >anyone human driver that I've seen. This was all mentioned months ago >actually. >I'm going to make a bet with myself as to which very familiar name disagrees >with me first.

Wrong actually - for my part I intend only to say "please don't start this again". We've all been over this fifty squillion times, not only mentioned months ago but again and again ad infinitum. You don't like it, okay, but jeez at least accept that others do and move on. Cheers! John

Phil... hehe, great story. Trust me though, you CAN do it. Watch a replay of a "fast" guys hotlap at say, the Glen, and compare his corner speeds to yours. Then try to match them. Keep trying and tweaking the setups until you get relatively close.... you'll get there!! -_Dave

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> Forgive me brethren, as I almost left the fold ! Let me explain: > I have had GPL since the demo was first released, and the full game since > the week it came out and have spent COUNTLESS hours driving round and round > (and round..... etc.) first Watkins and then Monza etc. Unfortunately my > times seemed to have plateaued at low 1:08's for the Glen, low 1:31's for > Monza etc, and weren't improving so I left it alone for a while and did less > important things like feeding the kids and putting a roof on the house etc. > I then figured maybe I could improve with better hardware, so I built > another P.C. just for GPL. (PII 450, 128Mb PC100, SLI V2s etc.) Not much > better. Maybe it's my modified T2 that's holding me back ? Spent quite some > time in my friend's Hyperstimulator, without much difference. Damn ! No > other excuses - I'm just not cut out for this racing lark. > But wait ! maybe it's the fact that the game isn't really realistic - > surely these thoroughbreds can't have handled this unpredictably ? Yes! > that's it ! the sim isn't a true representation of the cars of this era, so > therefore I'll delete it from my drive and justify my lack of talent this > way! > But just as I was about to follow this path to damnation, a saviour in > the form of a short in-car video of Jackie Stewart driving the March-Ford (I > think) at Silverstone in 1969-70. Well, the car was squirming, fighting, > kicking and sliding all over the shop, the wee Scott's hands were never > still and he was wrestling with the wheel all the way through each corner. > During the clip there was a voice-over by Jackie saying Politically- > Incorrect things such as: the cars were like a woman, that they needed to be > treated firmly to get the right response, and even if you treated them well, > they were likely to turn *** when you least expected it! > After seeing and hearing this I realise that GPL is much more accurate than > I gave it credit for and it is, indeed, my lack of talent that is the > problem!! > *** !!!!! > Cheers... > Phillip.. > (back to the 3:00 a.m. practise sessions!)

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Harjan... These old cars with tall bias-ply tires *were* driven a bit raggedly and sideways... revisit some old racing videos and you will see that these cars *did* drift around most corners with the back end*** out slightly... -_Dave

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> I have to agree up onto a certain degree, many of the human drivers seem to > be going sideways all over the track. Side-flipping the car whether it's a > go-kart. These cars aren't suppose to be driven like that. You have to drive > them smooth, that doesn't mean the car isn't sliding. You're just on the > limit, with the front end and back end loosing grip almost all the time. If > you control the drifts it's pretty easy to drive perfect lines. Most people > have problems driving consistent lines, I think they don't use markers > enough. Some corners need markers (personally I only use them for braking > and almost never for turning in(in real life and in simulator racing). In > real life I use a marker for the clipping point as well, but in GPL I have > to admit that I usually just use the darkened area. If you look at my > replay I'm right on the line, and putting in consistent lap times. > I think more drivers should work on consistency, since race wins come from > consistency and not from hotlapping. > For people trying to become a better racing driver I suggest the following, > joing a league and see what other drivers are doing (offline) on the > laptime. Now just go and practise, keep driving laps with the average lap > time they drive on mind. Don't go out looking at the hotlap times, these > guys are great drivers as well as very good capable of setting up a car. By > comparing your times to more average drivers, you'll get far more > satisfaction. Just keep on driving, make markers for difficult entries. And > never try to overdrive to soon. We all know where the last seconds come > from, it's from trailbraking. But don't even think about trailbraking if > you're not already putting in good times. It will only slowen your > progression. So just keep on practising with good (not superb) as target > times. Also always use the Lotus when practising, many will not agree on > this, but it's just the most easy car to drive quickly. You don't have use > every trick in the book to achieve good lap times. Driving traditional lines > not using trail braking will bring you good times in the Lotus, while in for > example the Coventry you have to drive your balls off to achieve a moderate > time. Going from the Coventry to the Lotus will just leave you frustrated as > you tend to overdrive every corner that comes along. > >>>Well, the car was squirming, fighting, kicking and sliding all over the > shop, > >the wee Scott's hands were never still and he was wrestling with the wheel > all > >the way through each corner. During the clip there was a voice-over by > Jackie > >saying Politically-Incorrect things such as: the cars were like a woman, > that > >they needed to be treated firmly to get the right response, and even if you > >treated them well, they were likely to turn *** when you least expected > >it!<< > >Sounds like my evening at the NTT Kyalami race. Especially the unexpected > >*** part! Is there a limit to how many apexes a corner can have? > >Steve B. > >remove "edy" from address for email

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:47:47 +0100, "McKafre" >at zandvoort ? Monza was my guess... <...>

I'm not "starting" anything. I'm responding to a post on r.a.s. Sorry, I forgot that criticizing GPL is a no-no. Only warm and fuzzy allowed. I've seen the old video and it does not resemble what I see from human drivers. Seems like a big red flag to me but it's fine if some hard core GPL drivers with 8,000,000 hours in the sim want to ignore it. If I had that much time in the sim, I'd hate any criticism of it too. I'd probably overreact and assume someone is saying I've been wasting my time. David G Fisher

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>Wrong actually - for my part I intend only to say "please don't start >this again". We've all been over this fifty squillion times, not only >mentioned months ago but again and again ad infinitum. You don't like >it, okay, but jeez at least accept that others do and move on. >Cheers! >John

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>On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:51:16 -0500, "David G Fisher" >>I'm not "starting" anything. I'm responding to a post on r.a.s. >Which was from someone who enjoyed GPL and thought it very realistic. >You managed to twist around to the same tired old topic.

No John. I simply responded to a post on r.a.s. He referred to old video of F1 races. I gave my opinion of the same video. That's an example of the way a newsgroup works. I seriously doubt the person who made the original post recognizes my name from the past or any of my opinions. It may be familiar to you, but not to most who post here. Paranoia? Hmmm. Predictability is a better word. I can can easily predict who will respond to my posts and what they will say. Examples: Ymenard will tell me UbiSoft sucks and Papyrus is great. Pat Dotson will say MS sucks (for some reason he thinks that bothers me). John Wallace will scold me because I occasionally post that GPL isn't perfect. Maybe you do that to invite piling on? Why don't you ever mention that I've said (100 times) it's an excellent sim? I've asked the GPL fan club many times why they ignore that fact but they never answer. Convenient. If someone doesn't like my posts, please put me on your kill file. Funny. A check of deja news shows that I RARELY EVER post ANYTHING about GPL, nor do I bash sims or their developers. I probably go too far the opposite way. My posts on r.a.s. are just a weeeeeeeeeeee fraction especially when compared to members of the Papyrus cult and their daily bashing of any other sim which dares to sit on the same shelf with GPL. MGPRS2 moans? I think it's a fantastic sim. You and ymenard are the ones who constantly moan about it. You call that belittling a point of view? I call it a logical and well known observation of typical human behavior. You know what I'm bored of and wish would CHANGE on r.a.s.? The GPL (Papyrus) fan club (really just the same 10 guys who have been whining at me for a year and a half) who overreact to any post even slightly negative about GPL or Papyrus. The same crybabies then eagerly rip, or post links to reviews ripping, other titles. Boring. David G Fisher

I would imagine there's room for both of you to be correct: I know the Stewart footage to which Phillip alluded (it's in the "Formula 1 Saga" set put out by White Star--though in truth it seems to be 1971 or so), and indeed JS is sawing the wheel all over the place and it don't at all look surgically precise. I imagine there's always been different styles of driving . . . But Davie, I don't get your constant (and I mean CONSTANT) desire to put GPL down at all. I mean--hell, it's just a game, a damned game (okay! okay! a sim! a sim!), but your long-expressed animous towards it seems AT LEAST as obsessive as the religiousity towards it you attribute towards others. Hmm? So GPL is their game, and anti-GPL is yours? love, DK

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>I've seen video of the cars from then. They held a line nicely and don't >slide anywhere near as much as they do in the game. They looked much more >stable even when racing in the rain. The AI in GPL looks realistic, but not >anyone human driver that I've seen. This was all mentioned months ago >actually. >I'm going to make a bet with myself as to which very familiar name

disagrees

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>with me first. >David G Fisher >>After seeing and hearing this I realise that GPL is much more accurate

than

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>>I gave it credit for and it is, indeed, my lack of talent that is the >>problem!! >> *** !!!!! >> Cheers... >> Phillip.. >> (back to the 3:00 a.m. practise sessions!)

Give the guy a break John. Counselling's expensive, typing's cheap (unless you hire Monica to do it). Andrew "I wasn't 1st :-p" McP

Good advice. Watching replays doesn't really teach you how to drive that fast, but it shows you what's possible, which is very valuable. Andrew McP

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:51:16 -0500, "David G Fisher" >I'm not "starting" anything. I'm responding to a post on r.a.s. Which was from someone who enjoyed GPL and thought it very realistic. You managed to twist around to the same tired old topic. Oops, your paranoia is showing again. Criticizing anything is fine, but when the same old record gets played again and again you have to call enough surely. Celine Dion said she was tired of that Titanic song, and we've heard that only a fraction of the times we've heard your GPL moans, MGPRS2 moans etc. They ignore it in the same manner as you imagine it. Belittling a point of view doesn't refute it, that's another thing that hasn't changed in your posts. Cheers! John

>But Davie, I don't get your constant (and I mean CONSTANT) desire to put GPL >down at all. > I mean--hell, it's just a game, a damned game (okay! okay! a sim! a sim!),

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>but your long-expressed animous towards it seems AT LEAST as obsessive as >the religiousity towards it you attribute towards others. >Hmm? >So GPL is their game, and anti-GPL is yours? >love, >DK

You need to get some facts straight before you make a fool of yourself. I've said a hundred times that I think GPL is overall an excellent sim (conveniently ignored by the crybabies). That makes me anti-GPL? LOL. Up until the last 24 hours, I've had 36 posts on r.a.s. in the last 3 months. A whopping 4 of them were about GPL. Those 4 posts were G rated at worst and very general. "but your long-expressed animous towards it seems AT LEAST as obsessive as the religiousity towards it you attribute towards others." Obsessive? You call that CONSTANT? Do you really mean CONSTANT? Wow. How wrong can you be? As wrong as John Wallace was in his accusations towards me in this thread. David G Fisher P.S. You need to work on your sarcastic manner if you want it to be effective. "Davie"? "Love"? Nope. Didn't work. I'm a "Davy" anyway.

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> >On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:51:16 -0500, "David G Fisher" > >>I'm not "starting" anything. I'm responding to a post on r.a.s. > >Which was from someone who enjoyed GPL and thought it very realistic. > >You managed to twist around to the same tired old topic. > No John. I simply responded to a post on r.a.s. He referred to old video of > F1 races. I gave my opinion of the same video. That's an example of the way > a newsgroup works. I seriously doubt the person who made the original post > recognizes my name from the past or any of my opinions. It may be familiar > to you, but not to most who post here. > >>Sorry, I forgot that criticizing GPL is a no-no. Only warm and fuzzy > >>allowed. > >Oops, your paranoia is showing again. > Paranoia? Hmmm. Predictability is a better word. I can can easily predict > who will respond to my posts and what they will say. > Examples: > Ymenard will tell me UbiSoft sucks and Papyrus is great. > Pat Dotson will say MS sucks (for some reason he thinks that bothers me). > John Wallace will scold me because I occasionally post that GPL isn't > perfect. Maybe you do that to invite piling on? Why don't you ever mention > that I've said (100 times) it's an excellent sim? I've asked the GPL fan > club many times why they ignore that fact but they never answer. Convenient. > If someone doesn't like my posts, please put me on your kill file. > >Criticizing anything is fine, > >but when the same old record gets played again and again you have to > >call enough surely. Celine Dion said she was tired of that Titanic > >song, and we've heard that only a fraction of the times we've heard > >your GPL moans, MGPRS2 moans etc. > Funny. A check of deja news shows that I RARELY EVER post ANYTHING about > GPL, nor do I bash sims or their developers. I probably go too far the > opposite way. My posts on r.a.s. are just a weeeeeeeeeeee fraction > especially when compared to members of the Papyrus cult and their daily > bashing of any other sim which dares to sit on the same shelf with GPL. > MGPRS2 moans? I think it's a fantastic sim. You and ymenard are the ones who > constantly moan about it. > >>If I had that > >>much time in the sim, I'd hate any criticism of it too. I'd probably > >>overreact and assume someone is saying I've been wasting my time. > >Belittling a point of view doesn't refute it, that's another thing > >that hasn't changed in your posts. > You call that belittling a point of view? I call it a logical and well known > observation of typical human behavior. > You know what I'm bored of and wish would CHANGE on r.a.s.? > The GPL (Papyrus) fan club (really just the same 10 guys who have been > whining at me for a year and a half) who overreact to any post even slightly > negative about GPL or Papyrus. The same crybabies then eagerly rip, or post > links to reviews ripping, other titles. > Boring. > David G Fisher

blah, blah, blah, blah. You two married to each other? roy

Making a "fool of myself" in RAS is something I can accept with a certain degree of . . . aplomb. This ain't world politics . . . You make a case below that actually you have been quite reasonable in your criticisms of GPL--moderate, even-handed . . . But it's a disingenious strategy at best. You say in other posts that you can predict who will respond to your moderate critiques, and indeed, how they will respond. Do you not realize that you carry the same sort of I.D. for many of us? I see a post by one "David G Fisher" and I somehow know it will quite likely be (a) a critique of GPL, and/or (b) a defensive slam at the GPL "cultists" (or crybabies") who are ever ready to jump on your arcane observations. Hell, I can read many of your critiques, and see how to a gamer (ugh, i hate that word, hope you do too) with certain expectations, GPL might well be very incomplete. Fine and dandy. Different strokes, etc. But my problem is with your predictability. You attribute it to others, and yet don't see it in yourself. That seems unfair. DK PS: "P.S. You need to work on your sarcastic manner if you want it to be Of course they worked !

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>>But Davie, I don't get your constant (and I mean CONSTANT) desire to put >GPL >>down at all. >> I mean--hell, it's just a game, a damned game (okay! okay! a sim! a >sim!), >>but your long-expressed animous towards it seems AT LEAST as obsessive as >>the religiousity towards it you attribute towards others. >>Hmm? >>So GPL is their game, and anti-GPL is yours? >>love, >>DK >I've said a hundred times that I think GPL is overall an excellent sim >(conveniently ignored by the crybabies). That makes me anti-GPL? LOL. >Up until the last 24 hours, I've had 36 posts on r.a.s. in the last 3 >months. A whopping 4 of them were about GPL. Those 4 posts were G rated at >worst and very general. >"but your long-expressed animous towards it seems AT LEAST as obsessive as >the religiousity towards it you attribute towards others." >Obsessive? You call that CONSTANT? Do you really mean CONSTANT? Wow. How >wrong can you be? As wrong as John Wallace was in his accusations towards

me >in this thread. >David G Fisher >I'm a "Davy" anyway.

> Pat Dotson will say MS sucks (for some reason he thinks that bothers me). I would buy CARTPR2 today if it was good. A thought just struck me - SCGT may be what CARTPR would have been with workable steering and competent AI. BTW, I cannot remember ever typing "MS sucks". I seriously doubt I've ever typed "CARTPR sucks", though it's probably a fair assessment of my opinion. What "sucks" - what I find disappointing, is when a sim with potential is delivered in a state that doesn't live up to that potential. CARTPR fits this description - it needs serious work in several areas. SCGT, with a few tweaks, will fulfill it's pot- ential. GPL fulfills it's potential (despite lack of FF). Your behavior indicates that that bothers you. By your behavior, I mean your debate style - which is to state your opinion, and maintain your position despite rational discussion that presents opposing evidence. BTW2, If you aren't running CARTPR anymore, how are you spending your time? Has some other sim caught your attention? -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

I remember your long and much repeated rants about GPL online play. And now your back. Did you ever get your computer/connection fixed? I can sympathize with your frustration up to a point. I too had a lot of connection problems early on with GPL. But after I fixed them, WOW! Lots of people have been having more fun racing head to head than God ever intended. (Oh no, now I've brought God into this thread.) Marty

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> I seriously doubt the person who made the original post > recognizes my name from the past or any of my opinions. It may be familiar > to you, but not to most who post here. > The GPL (Papyrus) fan club (really just the same 10 guys who have been > whining at me for a year and a half) who overreact to any post even slightly > negative about GPL or Papyrus. The same crybabies then eagerly rip, or post > links to reviews ripping, other titles. > Boring. > David G Fisher

> I see a post by one "David G Fisher" and I somehow know it >will quite likely be (a) a critique of GPL, and/or (b) a defensive slam at >the GPL "cultists" (or crybabies") who are ever ready to jump on your arcane >observations. >But my problem is with your predictability. You attribute it to others, and >yet don't see it in yourself. That seems unfair. Once again, up until the other day I had 36 posts in the last 3 months. 4 were GPL related and barely critical. David G Fisher GPL is an excellent sim.

You know Pat, if you weren't so focused on attacking any post in which I mention GPL, you would of noticed that up until the other day, 32 out of 36 of my posts in the last 3 months were about MGPRS2 (majority), SCGT, and the upcoming Rally99. Why don't you know that? You say you know exactly what I post, and what my posting style is so why do you need to ask me that question? Pat Dotson = 8,000,000,000 hours in GPL = super-sensitive to the slightest criticism of it. David G Fisher GPL is an excellent sim. >BTW2, If you aren't running CARTPR anymore, how are you >spending your time? Has some other sim caught your >attention?

Another one of the "Papyrus 10" has chimed in. Only a few left now. John's quote below is a fine example of how sensitive you guys are to anything GPL related. John said that after I had been virtually silent about GPL over the last 3 months (4 whole posts). Andrew, you and the others predictable overreaction to my posts is alarming. You seem to be imagining things. The games been out six months, I posted virtually nothing about it for the last three. Who needs that counseling? I'm sure Papyrus will provide it free of charge in exchange for all the advertising you do for them. David G Fisher GPL is an excellent sim.

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>> You don't like it, okay, but jeez at least accept that others >> do and move on. >Give the guy a break John. Counselling's expensive, typing's cheap >(unless you hire Monica to do it). >Andrew "I wasn't 1st :-p" McP

Is that like the Guildford 4 and Birmingham 7? /me stops playing cards and scrubs his hands innocently. Andrew "typographical semtex" McP PS pot, kettle, black, nuff said

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:13:55 -0500, "David G Fisher" >No John. I simply responded to a post on r.a.s. Yes, once AGAIN - that was the point. If by that you mean repeating one's point over and over and over again regardless of protestation then you're right, that is demonstrably how a newsgroup operates. Why then do you bother? Hmm, you've just contradicted both of us since you obviously don't know what I will say. I couldn't really give a rat's ass if you think GPL is perfect or not, it's of no consequence to me. I will comment on anything where I think someone is being unfair or short-sighted, regardless of product or company. Funnily enough, Dejanews counts "about 300" instances of you talking in rec.autos.sims about GPL. Our definitions of "rarely" obviously differ. I present my views, you moan about them. Yes, that was my point - to belittle someone else's behaviour in lieu of a convincing counter argument. Dres it up any way you like, it was still a childish response. Otherwise known as "people who hold contrary points of view" or "people who refuse to accept my sound and convincing arguments". I can almost hear the foot stamp. If it really gets to you then using a killfile would achieve the same result. Again, precisely the point I was making. Cheers! John

Jealous sweetie? I'm sorry.... Cheers! John

>On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:13:55 -0500, "David G Fisher" >If by that you mean repeating one's point over and over and over again >regardless of protestation then you're right, that is demonstrably how >a newsgroup operates. Four innocous GPL related posts in the last three months before this nonsense started the other day. Is that really "repeating one's point over and over and over again"? Because there are more than just you and the other nine Papyrus cheerleaders here at r.a.s. Didn't you ever notice that? Ugghh. I said that in the last three months (between mid December and March 21st that I had made four bland, GPL related posts. That's about as rare as it gets. Why are you pretending you didn't understand? Otherwise known as the only people who ever seem to complain about my posts. David G Fisher GPL is an excellent sim.

David G Fisher wrote David can you please name them 10 ? I just want to know for my personal knowledge. Maybe the group should form some official association :) 10 Knights of the Round table who say Ni!!! -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I guess you have a few million hours with GPL too. It shows. David G Fisher GPL is an excellent sim. >right - I'm on the bandwagon now!! can I be number 11? aww please, please >can I - huh, can I !! >I see no reference to GPL here - only to your sanity (or lack thereof).

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>>Once again, up until the other day I had 36 posts in the last 3 months. 4 >>were GPL related and barely critical. >>David G Fisher >>GPL is an excellent sim. >once again, repeating yourself ad nausium

It's a shame I have to do that, isn't it? Maybe you can explain to David in even SIMPLER terms because he can't seem to understand. "Simple" and you seem to go together well. David G Fisher GPL is an excellent sim.

I think you'll find that anyone who's put similar time into their sim racing that Messers Stewart and Co. put into their real racing (and has similar car setup/response knowledge) will be just as smooth as the real boys...... conversly the "couple of hours a week" brigade will be allover the road. 400+ peaky bhp and 1967 tyre technology = loose car no matter which way you look at it. cheers -Lindsay

no please don't!! - we've heard enough of this inane blabbering

right - I'm on the bandwagon now!! can I be number 11? aww please, please can I - huh, can I !! I see no reference to GPL here - only to your sanity (or lack thereof). You're right Andrew - typing is cheap, and very cathartic..... aaahhhhhh, there - that's better.

once again, repeating yourself ad nausium

yes! - i made it! Now if I can only put in a few more posts I can move into the top 10....j u s t a f e w m o r e huh? what? er ... oh *** I thought I was playing GPL there (its the greatest sim ever you know) sorry to dissapoint but I'm one of the "2 hour a week - hasn't got a clue about setup - brigade" (ok maybe 4 - or that could be 6 ... oh alright just a bit more:)) so your gplhour-o-meter seems to have failed you on this occassion -Lindsay

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>I guess you have a few million hours with GPL too. It shows. >David G Fisher >GPL is an excellent sim. >>right - I'm on the bandwagon now!! can I be number 11? aww please, please >>can I - huh, can I !! >>I see no reference to GPL here - only to your sanity (or lack thereof).

> Pat Dotson = 8,000,000,000 hours in GPL = super-sensitive to the slightest > criticism of it. Wow, you said I only had 30,000 hours in gpl the other day. I'm spending way to much time at it :) It's pretty good, isn't it? -- ------------------------------------------------------ IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html ------------------------------------------------------

Nice Dave.... get down to personal attacks, always the best strategy. You do have some constrcutive things to sometimes, unfortunately I'm never gonna hear them as you've now made it into my kill file along with doomsday rick the y2k monster. cya -Lindsay

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>>>Once again, up until the other day I had 36 posts in the last 3 months. 4 >>>were GPL related and barely critical. >>>David G Fisher >>>GPL is an excellent sim. >>once again, repeating yourself ad nausium >It's a shame I have to do that, isn't it? >Maybe you can explain to David in even SIMPLER terms because he can't seem >to understand. "Simple" and you seem to go together well. >David G Fisher >GPL is an excellent sim.

On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:39:24 -0500, "David G Fisher" >Four innocous GPL related posts in the last three months before this >nonsense started the other day. Is that really "repeating one's point over >and over and over again"? David, with insight like yours this must surely be rhetorical? You make your point, the "cheerleaders" respond, you make your point again, the same "cheerleaders" respond - don't you notice a distinct lack of benefit to those multitudes? No pretence, just showing what a nonsense statistics are. Regardless of whether you posted 10 times or 10,000 times in the past it gets really tiring hearing "GPL doesn't drive lines like the real thing", and I'm surprised that you yourself don't get tired endlessly bringing it up and enduring the inevitable gainsaying. Surely you have better things to do with your time than initiate such exchanges? Cheers! John

"Methinks the boy doth protest too much." to paraphrase someone-or-other. In case I'm wrong, here's an alternative facet to consider. I just happen to work with a guy like this. His (self-)importance is confirmed whenever someone tries to refute his personal "truth" and so, the more people who go on and on about his.. er.. orations.. (yes, that's a good word to use) the more his being is affecting others. Ergo, the more important he is. It's a losing cycle. Let it go, eh? Av/Mikey

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|I would imagine there's room for both of you to be correct: I know the |Stewart footage to which Phillip alluded (it's in the "Formula 1 Saga" set |put out by White Star--though in truth it seems to be 1971 or so), and |indeed JS is sawing the wheel all over the place and it don't at all look |surgically precise. I imagine there's always been different styles of |driving . . . | |But Davie, I don't get your constant (and I mean CONSTANT) desire to put

GPL |down at all. | I mean--hell, it's just a game, a damned game (okay! okay! a sim! a sim!),

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|but your long-expressed animous towards it seems AT LEAST as obsessive as |the religiousity towards it you attribute towards others. | |Hmm? | |So GPL is their game, and anti-GPL is yours? | |love, |DK | |>I've seen video of the cars from then. They held a line nicely and don't |>slide anywhere near as much as they do in the game. They looked much more |>stable even when racing in the rain. The AI in GPL looks realistic, but

not

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|>anyone human driver that I've seen. This was all mentioned months ago |>actually. |> |>I'm going to make a bet with myself as to which very familiar name |disagrees |>with me first. |> |>David G Fisher |> |>>After seeing and hearing this I realise that GPL is much more accurate |than |>>I gave it credit for and it is, indeed, my lack of talent that is the |>>problem!! |>> *** !!!!! |>> |>> Cheers... |>> Phillip.. |>> (back to the 3:00 a.m. practise

sessions!)

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|>> |>> |>> |> |> | | | |

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>> you CAN do it. Watch a >> replay of a "fast" guys hotlap >Good advice. Watching replays doesn't really teach you how to drive that >fast, but it shows you what's possible, which is very valuable. >Andrew McP

So us 'velocity-challenged' are doomed to be terminal backmarkers? I already know what's POSSIBLE, from different websites. What I *don't* know, is how to equal those times, or even get CLOSE... :( What DOES teach you how to drive that fast? Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.