I've been thinking about getting a FF wheel, so I've been reading
everything I can about them. The problem is every single one of them
seems to have a fairly major drawback in one area or another, so I'm
wondering if I should just wait for something better to come along.
1) MS FF Sidewinder wheel. Digital/optical position readers: BIG plus,
no more calibration/jitter nightmares. But it's seemingly poor FF
effects (too strong on some things, and not effective on subtle
effects) is a BIG minus. Given it's high cost and less than stellar
FF, I can't see getting it.
2) Act Labs RS. Sounds like the best of the bunch, EXCEPT I really
loath the idea of getting another wheel that doesn't support separate
gas/brake axis. Some users have had problems with sticky gas pedals
too, and combined with single-axis it may not be great for ***
sims like GPL. Also, only connects via the serial port, which I don't
currently have available (long story). I'm also worried about jittery
input with non-digital old-fashioned pots.
3) Logitech Wingman Force. This one looks really good EXCEPT for the
poor pedals (some reviews call them "almost digital" because of their
short travel and weak springs). Otherwise it looks pretty damn good.
Good FF effects, separate axis pedals, and USB support. Like the Act
RS it has analog pots - does the USB connection help with calibration
jitters? What about the pedals, are they that bad, or can they be used
effectively in GPL? Is the pedal unit placed so that the "tennis ball
solution" can be used to provide extra tension?
Joe
Joe,
I have the Microsoft FFB wheel and love it. I use int in Nascar 99,
GPL,Monster Truck Madness II, SODA Off Road Racing and the TOCA 2 Demo. The
TOCA 2 sim and Monster Truck Madness II are the only 2 that I have that
support FFB. I like the FFB in TOCA 2 and the wheel works superbly with
GPL. I have read that Viper Racing has some of the best support for FFB
currently available but have yet to buy it.
Mike
Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.
Joe, I've been using the LWFF since November and couldn't be happier. Forget
the tennis ball idea as a fix for the pedals. It's a very easy procedure to
replace the springs in the pedal unit. There are no jitters at all using this
wheel, the shift paddles are perfect,IMO, and the software works very well.
There is only one drawback I can think of, and that's that the wheel will not
work with Nascar 2, it does work with Nascar99 however.
System:
PII400
SBPCI64
128RAM
Win98
Sims Used:
F1RS
GPL
CMR
Viper
SCGT Demo
Toca 2 Demo
-don
...
Hi Joe,
I have the Logitech, and I would recommend it.
Understanding that the pedals are, easily, the biggest drawback, I
never thought they were as horrible as some say. The travel is short,
the resistance is light, but man, I've tried a lot of wheels out
there, and these pedals, off the shelf, felt as good as any to me.
Whoever reviewed them and used the term "almost digital," was
exaggerating, close to the point of a lie, IMHO. Also, the Logitech
control utility allows for sensitivity adjustment through software.
In GPL, I run the brake pedal somewhere near 50% sensitivity, with
very nice results. I can mash the brake to just a hint of locking and
release, and I do exactly this when driving, repeatedly. I think
spring tension could help me here, so I might go for a heavier brake
spring. (more below)
I really liked the distance of travel of the MS wheel's pedals, but
they slipped around on me, and the whole base felt a little "top
heavy," for lack of a better description. By this, I mean, if I were
to mash the accelerator "vigorously", the base would tip. Not
acceptable to me. The downward motion of the Logitech pedals allow me
to go ape on the accelerator if I so choose, with no problem.
I run decent lap times in GPL, and I feel I have very acceptable
control of the accel/brake with the Logitech pedals. In running
various Thrustmaster models, and the Saitek FF wheel(especially), it
seemed to me that the pedal travel was much shorter and harder to
control precisely. Maybe that's just me, everyone else in RAS seems
happy with their Thrustmasters, and I know TM makes a decent product,
and supports it.
The FF of the MS wheel was *much* stronger than the Logitech, but the
MS wheel itself - on the uncoated parts - felt too cheaply built;
reminiscent of my old Interact V3. (which I still think was a great
wheel for $60. :) So, for the price that they are asking for these
things, I was not ready to accept a cheap feel.
The Logitech is a keeper for me, mainly because the pedal travel is
the only complaint I have with it; everything else about the wheel I
really do like. The pedal travel was still good enough to not be a
deal breaker. The feel of the wheel itself has a heavy, quality feel,
the paddles are excellent, and the wheel performs flawlessly in
everything that I use it for, which is mainly GPL and Viper Racing.
It does not work with one of the Papy NASCAR sims that run in DOS
mode, but I don't run it. Be aware of it, though.
I am actually using the serial port in spite of the USB, purely for
the fact that I don't feel like patching Win95 OSR2 to support it, and
I really don't want Win98. I have run it on 98 with USB, and either
way, I have absolutely no jitters in GPL. None.
The Act Labs RS I have not had the opportunity to try, but have heard
mostly good things about, with the exception of a lack of split axis.
Or has this been resolved, anyone?
Lastly (finally!), I have had no problem with the Logitech's stock
resistance, but lately, I've been entertaining the idea of heavier
springs, just to make sure I'm not missing something good. :) AFAIK,
no one has tried the tennis ball trick with these pedals (anyone?),
because the springs are easily replaceable with heavier springs.
And there's my entry for windbag of the week.
Good Luck!
Brett
Easy fix for the pedals of the LWFF. Get a T2 with your purchase, they
should be dirt cheap, and replace LWFF's pedals with the T2's. Its easy and
they are much better than those in the LWFF.
>Easy fix for the pedals of the LWFF. Get a T2 with your purchase, they
>should be dirt cheap, and replace LWFF's pedals with the T2's. Its easy and
>they are much better than those in the LWFF.
Except for the fact that the T2 doesn't support separate axes for brake and
throttle without performing surgery on it.
Dave Ewing
That, and I don't think the LWFF would be compatible with the T2
pedals anyway, since the LWFF power supply plugs into the pedals.
Joe
Thanks to all who responded. It helped me make my decision. I decided
to go with the Logitech WF.
The pedals are a bit too light. The travel doesn't bother me, but I
may try something to stiffen up the brake in particular. Other than
that I love this wheel, seems like an excellent product. The wheel
itself is a thing of beauty. Wonderful, heavy-but-smooth feel, it's a
joy to hold.
FF effects are subtle but accurate and helpful. It has already
improved my Viper racing driving (not as impressed with the FF support
in F1RS, though the rumble strips are cool, and particularly not in
Motorhead). It's also a very nice wheel for non-FF sims like GPL. Nice
solid, smooth graduated force that makes for very precise control.
Perfect shifter panels, don't even have to think about or get use to
them. And while the brake springs are a bit light, trail-braking
(i.e., with the brakes on a separate axis) is a VERY nice feature, it
has improved my control already. I'm glad I bought a wheel that
supports this.
One question: are there any wear-and-tear issues associated with
turning the FF-strength up past 100%?
Joe
I just don't see where folks get this idea. I think the MSFFW does just
fine.
And no, I am no Microsoft fan. I just think they got lucky and made a
good product. Especially the pedals...
-Larry
> But it's seemingly poor FF
> effects (too strong on some things, and not effective on subtle
> effects) is a BIG minus.
That's original :)
-Larry
> It's a slightly different trick, I use some heavy gel from an old "fellows"
> keyboard wrist pad and wrapped it around the shaft of the brake
> pedal from the outside. That keeps it from being depressed too
> easily and gives it some real world brake feel.
