Online GPL Racing Blue Flags?

aaarrrggghhhhh! FRUSTRATION! Last night promised to be an excellent night on VROC, I joined a FULL grid at the Glen (about 10:30 GMT) and qualified about 7th. Got a good start, missed the inevitable pileup but then got tangled with a Ferrari who hit the bales on turn 2. Recovered quickly and then got into the swing of things but within 10 laps or so the leaders started coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people were getting frustrated. The problem seemed to be that GPL doesn't blue flag these guys, indeed I caught one at one corner and the marshall waved a white flag at me!! Is this a problem with GPL? will it be fixed in 1.1? it spoilt an up til then excellent race :( It was then further spoilt by a very fast and aggressive Ferrari driver who when recovering from spins and charging through the field forced me off the track once and then a second time actually knocked me off, an apology would have been nice :( I hope he was just having a bad day. Still ***y good fun though -- Mike Buckley Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208 WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

In GPL, you only see flags that are directed at you. On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:22:03 +0000, Mike Buckley

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>aaarrrggghhhhh! FRUSTRATION! Last night promised to be an excellent >night on VROC, I joined a FULL grid at the Glen (about 10:30 GMT) and >qualified about 7th. >Got a good start, missed the inevitable pileup but then got tangled with >a Ferrari who hit the bales on turn 2. Recovered quickly and then got >into the swing of things but within 10 laps or so the leaders started >coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching >up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not >moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people >were getting frustrated. The problem seemed to be that GPL doesn't blue >flag these guys, indeed I caught one at one corner and the marshall >waved a white flag at me!! >Is this a problem with GPL? will it be fixed in 1.1? it spoilt an up til >then excellent race :( >It was then further spoilt by a very fast and aggressive Ferrari driver >who when recovering from spins and charging through the field forced me >off the track once and then a second time actually knocked me off, an >apology would have been nice :( >I hope he was just having a bad day. >Still ***y good fun though

Ahhh ,chill! What you see isn't the whole story. I was at the same race starting around 10th and watched all the hot shoes wrecking in front of me. I ended up 5th or so about midway when the biggest afterrace complainer comes up to overtake me for position. Guess he expects everyone to recognize his god like driving ability and move out of his way even when its for position.No blue flag when its for position. After watching him in mirrors for 3 corners it was obvious that he was going to put us both off so I moved over. This was the only time he passed me. OTOH when the leader came throughthe blue flag waved and I got out of his way on the next straight. The leader did it with style and speed. This post race whining about backmarkers is just a bunch of excuse making by people that have figured out training but haven't figured out racing. Any time you join a full race at a short track like Watglen on an open server you are going to have to deal with backmarkers. The truly fast guys know this and use it. The wannabees bolster their ego afterwards by blaming others. If you want a nice safe unfrustrateing experience then find a dozen others that you like to race with and start a league. Email me if you want the replay David Erb (one of a couple of blue cars with gold helmuts)

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>aaarrrggghhhhh! FRUSTRATION! Last night promised to be an excellent >night on VROC, I joined a FULL grid at the Glen (about 10:30 GMT) and >qualified about 7th. >Got a good start, missed the inevitable pileup but then got tangled with >a Ferrari who hit the bales on turn 2. Recovered quickly and then got >into the swing of things but within 10 laps or so the leaders started >coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching >up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not >moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people >were getting frustrated. The problem seemed to be that GPL doesn't blue >flag these guys, indeed I caught one at one corner and the marshall >waved a white flag at me!! >Is this a problem with GPL? will it be fixed in 1.1? it spoilt an up til >then excellent race :( >It was then further spoilt by a very fast and aggressive Ferrari driver >who when recovering from spins and charging through the field forced me >off the track once and then a second time actually knocked me off, an >apology would have been nice :( >I hope he was just having a bad day. >Still ***y good fun though >-- >Mike Buckley >Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd >Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208 >WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

oooooooohhhhhhhhh, I didn't know that, but surely if they were indeed getting the blue flag there was less reason to race with me?? Sorry if I've offended anyone here I guess it was a bit of a shock to me having to cope with backmarkers - normally its the leaders lapping ME guess the practise must be paying off! :) -- Mike Buckley Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208 WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

Sounds like the same guy I thought about moving over but decided anyone lapping in those times was pretty competent and wouldn't resort to bumping me, guess I'll just have to mark it down to experience :) I don't wholeheartedly agree with this, I admit that I lack experience overtaking backmarkers but this doesn't excuse those that race with cars trying to lap them Great - find someone in the UK with ADSL (hurry up PJ and BT!) and I will, latency to some European races and others is variable :( oops - that would mean it was you I hit when bounced off a Ferrari on turn 2 on the first lap! -- Mike Buckley Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208 WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:49:16 +0000, Mike Buckley >> This post race whining about backmarkers is just a bunch of excuse >>making by people that have figured out training but haven't figured out >>racing. >I don't wholeheartedly agree with this, I admit that I lack experience >overtaking backmarkers but this doesn't excuse those that race with cars >trying to lap them You are both right to a degree. For the most part though , if someone is slow enough for you to lap them, then it's almost a sure bet that they will go off while you are behind them. When people are new to GPL they may be slow , but they are difficult to pass because they are unpredictable and they are generally all over the place. It's true that they should move aside , but no one wants to be Hiro Matsushita. : ) either.

hehe... good King Hiro reference! ;-) Glad he's behind the pit wall these days. --Dave

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> On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:49:16 +0000, Mike Buckley > >> This post race whining about backmarkers is just a bunch of excuse > >>making by people that have figured out training but haven't figured out > >>racing. > >I don't wholeheartedly agree with this, I admit that I lack experience > >overtaking backmarkers but this doesn't excuse those that race with cars > >trying to lap them > You are both right to a degree. For the most part though , if > someone is slow enough for you to lap them, then it's almost a sure > bet that they will go off while you are behind them. When people are > new to GPL they may be slow , but they are difficult to pass because > they are unpredictable and they are generally all over the place. It's > true that they should move aside , but no one wants to be Hiro > Matsushita. : ) either.

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

... I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car make the move. Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at Spa. We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose. Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help: When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help to let him by. If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the obvious opening that the driver in front will provide. It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new users page. Any comments? Dave Ewing

Mike... One answer for you might be the "Nail That Track" series. The biggest advantages that NTT offers are a regular schedule of quality events, top-notch connections, superb fields, and the absence of irresponsible, discourteous drivers. To get a feel for the quality of the NTT events, do a search on "Nail That Track" or "NTT" in RAS, or take a look at the "News" section of The APEX (http://gpl.gamestats.com/ ). In addition, participation in NTT events *doesn't* require the use of VROC, although our races are available via VROC's Password Room. So if you're an Internet Explorer user, we have the online racing answer for you! When you register for a NTT event you receive an NTT server IP address and password, allowing you to make a direct connection from your GPL Multiplayer screen, avoiding the overhead of Netscape or any other program. Check out the RAS post entitled "'Nail That Track' Race Registration Procedure" for a schedule of upcoming NTT events and details on how to register for events. Hope to see you at the track! Jack Rambo

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:01:24 -0700, David Ewing

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>When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the >driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help >to let him by. >If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are >probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and >barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the >obvious opening that the driver in front will provide. >It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new >users page.

I typically wait until a straight , move off line and raise my arm only slowing slightly. That being said , I've seen drivers do this and then get a tire on the grass. The car gets out of shape ,comes back on the track and then unintentionally crashes me when I'm trying to get around. Maybe some of the hosting regulars ( what do ya think Jack?) can help work this out. They observe a lot of the races and may have a better idea of what works.

Maybe you should consider this before you try to implement your rules on us. GO JOIN A RACING LEAGUE! At least in your racing league you would be able to tell everyone what to do. It is not up to the driver being passed to make sure there will be room for the pass till after the passing car makes it clear that they are going to pass by actually doing it. Even if you're doing 200mph and the slower car is doing 30. it's your mistake if you end up hitting him. You are the one that's is to be looking where you are going. On the other hand, the idiot doing 30 shouldn't be there anyhow ;-) For both the passer and passee, always remember that... the other guy *WILL* make the dumbest move and you have to prepare for it. if you think of it that way there will never be any reason to try to implement your rules on us.

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> ... > > leaders started > > coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching > > up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not > > moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people > > were getting frustrated. > I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for > lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being > lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting > opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being > lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower > car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car > make the move. > Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the > vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers > off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the > inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly > slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at > Spa. > We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose. > Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help: > When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the > driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help > to let him by. > If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are > probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and > barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the > obvious opening that the driver in front will provide. > It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new > users page. > Any comments? > Dave Ewing

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

In my opinion a lapper should not slow until the faster car has pulled along side. In the Papy Cup races we have had several accidents where a backmarker will slow unexpectedly in front of a fast car taking them both out of the race. IMO the correct behavior for a backmarker is to hold a steady line and speed and let the fast car make a move to pass. BTW it is very hard to see those arms in a race. Scott Sanford Papyrus

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>... >> leaders started >> coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching >> up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not >> moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people >> were getting frustrated. >I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for >lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being >lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting >opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being >lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower >car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car >make the move. >Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the >vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers >off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the >inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly >slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at >Spa. >We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose. >Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help: >When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the >driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help >to let him by. >If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are >probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and >barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the >obvious opening that the driver in front will provide. >It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new >users page. >Any comments? >Dave Ewing

Wow another papy employee:)Just wanna say that I always seem to notice the AI cars putting their hand up. On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:22:17 -0500, "Scott Sanford"

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>In my opinion a lapper should not slow until the faster car has pulled along >side. In the Papy Cup races we have had several accidents where a >backmarker will slow unexpectedly in front of a fast car taking them both >out of the race. IMO the correct behavior for a backmarker is to hold a >steady line and speed and let the fast car make a move to pass. BTW it is >very hard to see those arms in a race. >Scott Sanford >Papyrus >>... >>> leaders started >>> coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching >>> up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not >>> moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people >>> were getting frustrated. >>I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for >>lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being >>lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting >>opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being >>lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower >>car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car >>make the move. >>Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the >>vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers >>off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the >>inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly >>slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at >>Spa. >>We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose. >>Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help: >>When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the >>driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help >>to let him by. >>If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are >>probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and >>barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the >>obvious opening that the driver in front will provide. >>It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new >>users page. >>Any comments? >>Dave Ewing

> Wow another papy employee:)Just wanna say that I always seem to >notice the AI cars putting their hand up. They're shaking their***at you.

As one who often seems to find himself in a position to be lapped by the speed demons, I have found no 1 right way to allow a faster car by. The same is true for the extremely rare occasions where I have the chance to pass a lapped car. The same thing applies to being lapped as attempting to lap. Patience! Take the time to access the driver's skills and method of attacking the course. For instance, while being shown the blue flag, observe the car approaching, if they are constantly darting back and forth from mirror to mirror, be extremely cautious as you have an impatient hotshoe on your tail. In this case it is best to not make any attempts to slow or move off line, as the driver behind you isn't really in control of his car or his emotions. Try not to hog the road (i.e., don't ride down the middle of the road). Patiently wait for the hotshoe to show his hand, and then when they attempt to pass ease off the throttle just enough to let them by while holding your line. In another example where you have a faster car approaching and you sense they are holding their line patiently awaiting the chance to pass... As long as the driver behind is not on your tail but slightly off to oneside, the best place to provide a passing point is going into (or out of a turn). Brake a little bit early as you approach the turn while holding your line and attempt to go wide (if the car behind is on your inside), give plenty of room in the apex, allowing the faster car the preferred line. If all works well, you should be able to accelerate out of the turn without having too much lost time. Again, this usually only works when you have a patient driver attempting to lap you. I tend to allow the impatient drivers the opportunity to pass on the straights (as I can't trust them to make a proper pass in a turn). While on the other hand, if the faster car exhibits patience and cannot pass me on their own on the straight, I attempt to allow them their opportunity in the turns. One thing to keep in mind as a faster car attempting to lap a backmarker. They will not necessarily see a blue flag until you are within a certain distance and only if there happens to be a marshall available to wave a flag. Be patient and allow them time to realize that they are indeed being pursued by a car that is about to lap them. Also keep in mind that they are about to be lapped because their driving skills are more than likely not as honed as yours. Did I say "patience"? Most (not all) drivers about to be lapped are more nervous about your presence and not wanting to get in the way that they are more prone to mistakes if you attempt to banzai them. Patience is the key to passing backmarkers, take your time to access their skills and things should work out okay. Now for the soapbox.... I don't understand the few backmarkers that are extremely slow in the turns (braking early and hard and hogging the line), but then think they should be able to drag race the faster car down the straight, preventing a clean pass and thus repeating this procedure at the next turn. If, as a backmarker, you feel that you need to hog the line attempting a turn, that's fine, as we would rather see you not wreck and take us both out. But, for heaven's sake, let the car pass you upon exiting the turn and before the next turn comes up. Remember that the lapping car didn't come up on you because they felt your were lonely way back in the field and just needed someone (anyone) to race with. :-) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Quite right about the behaviour of some on Vroc. I too was doing an int long race at the Glen a few nights ago. some geek in a Honda realised that I was much faster through the esses and tried to slow me while by brake testing me. After the crunch we proceeded to t4 where he (now following) decided not to bother using brakes at all. The resultant crash lost me a very hard earned third place (with about 5 laps of the 33 to run). I decided to retire and challenge him about his tactics. For my efforts I got a load of 'flame' abuse. Something that I have not seen on VROC before. When are these people going to learn that GPL is not Doom or other shoot em up games requiring this mentality. BTW I was lapping this guy for the third time. Mark

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>>In GPL, you only see flags that are directed at you. >oooooooohhhhhhhhh, I didn't know that, but surely if they were indeed >getting the blue flag there was less reason to race with me?? Sorry if >I've offended anyone here I guess it was a bit of a shock to me having >to cope with backmarkers - normally its the leaders lapping ME >guess the practise must be paying off! :) >-- >Mike Buckley >Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd >Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208 >WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

well said and long overdue...as a consistant BM (back marker :) ) i have many times tried to do it right, only to get my tailpipes shoved thru my windscreen! PATIENCE! i'll get out of your way...just give me sec!! now if we could just get all the online GPL'rs to read this,,, AND practice it. thanks Michael, as always you're right on target. Bo Bruce

Are you sure a bullseye is not painted on the gearbox cover on your car? Dave

> Maybe you should consider this before you try to implement your rules on >us. GO JOIN A RACING LEAGUE! At least in your racing league you would be >able to tell everyone what to do. Geez, Michael, lighten up. I wasn't trying to inflict my will upon anyone by making up rules. I was just trying to get some dialog on proper passing etiquette. And we have already seen some very good suggestions by Michael Carver and John Wallace, among others. And yes, I do belong to a racing league. Agreed. Also agreed. Again, what's with the attitude? Who said anything about "my rules"? I was just asking for suggestions and clarifications. Was your daddy too strict when you were a baby? Are you a member of a Patriot organization tired of being told what to do by the government? What gives? Dave Ewing

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:22:17 -0500, "Scott Sanford" >In my opinion a lapper should not slow until the faster car has pulled along >side. In the Papy Cup races we have had several accidents where a >backmarker will slow unexpectedly in front of a fast car taking them both >out of the race. IMO the correct behavior for a backmarker is to hold a >steady line and speed and let the fast car make a move to pass. BTW it is >very hard to see those arms in a race. It's nearly impossible to see the arms. I've never noticed them in an online race or LAN race, although many times watching the replays I've seen people raising their hands. I generally find it best to make a very positive move offline exiting onto a straight, then back off enough to let them power past. Cheers! John

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> > Maybe you should consider this before you try to implement your rules > on > >us. GO JOIN A RACING LEAGUE! At least in your racing league you would be > >able to tell everyone what to do. > Geez, Michael, lighten up. I wasn't trying to inflict my will upon anyone > by making up rules. I was just trying to get some dialog on proper passing > etiquette. And we have already seen some very good suggestions by Michael > Carver and John Wallace, among others. And yes, I do belong to a racing > league.

I have also seen those posts and they say the exact same thing I do. Watch out for the other guy. Wheather your the passer or passee, you should know that the other guy Will make that dumb move and you should prepair for it. That means slowing down and following the slow car till you see the safe place to pass. It was not my intention to ***. That was why I placed those ";-)" faces there. I just typed faster then my brain. Either way, You do have to remember that there are race series that have there rules and then there are "pick up" races where there are no set rules. If you were to have rewritten your first statement I would have understood that you were just trying to get some info on passing procedures and hope that others would learn from or at least be more aware of those procedures. It is a good thing to help those that don't know how to be passed as well as those that don't know how to pass. More then once I've come up on drivers that don't know either of those. I just get out of the way of the "faster driver", and for the slower cars I just sit back and wait till they make up their mind what they are going to do "safely'. If I'm passing I look at it as... each and every inch I travel down the track I think of more and more ways the slower driver *will* react and try to make a disition as to when I should pass, If at all. If I'm being passed I do the same as the above and come up with as many sinareos as possible to make up my final disition. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

on top of this we have lag- latency- baud rates etc etc....teh hopping & skipping 'some' cars are not always the error of the guy behind the wheel (in sim racing) so not only do we have to prepare for the passing game,,,,we need to adjust for modem connection as well. yes? :) (BTW no offense was taken from earlier comments, i did not read any in them)

This is exactly correct (in the big leagues too!). A slower car should not try to do any 'favours'... the best thing to do is keep a consistent speed and racing line and leave it to the passing/faster car to make their move. Be sure to leave them plenty of room when they decide to go though! Simon Goodwin

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> In my opinion a lapper should not slow until the faster car has pulled along > side. In the Papy Cup races we have had several accidents where a > backmarker will slow unexpectedly in front of a fast car taking them both > out of the race. IMO the correct behavior for a backmarker is to hold a > steady line and speed and let the fast car make a move to pass. BTW it is > very hard to see those arms in a race. > Scott Sanford > Papyrus > >... > >> leaders started > >> coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching > >> up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not > >> moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people > >> were getting frustrated. > >I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for > >lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being > >lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting > >opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being > >lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower > >car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car > >make the move. > >Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the > >vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers > >off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the > >inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly > >slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at > >Spa. > >We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose. > >Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help: > >When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the > >driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help > >to let him by. > >If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are > >probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and > >barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the > >obvious opening that the driver in front will provide. > >It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new > >users page. > >Any comments? > >Dave Ewing

-- Cheers, Simon Goodwin Remove 'removethis.' to reply... and DON'T use 'impact' as a verb!

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> It was not my intention to ***. That was why I placed those ";-)" faces > there. I just typed faster then my brain. Either way, You do have to remember > that there are race series that have there rules and then there are "pick up" > races where there are no set rules. If you were to have rewritten your first > statement I would have understood that you were just trying to get some info on > passing procedures and hope that others would learn from or at least be more > aware of those procedures. It is a good thing to help those that don't know how > to be passed as well as those that don't know how to pass. More then once I've > come up on drivers that don't know either of those. I just get out of the way > of the "faster driver", and for the slower cars I just sit back and wait till > they make up their mind what they are going to do "safely'.

Michael, I think we agree on every point here. Sorry for any confusion my original post may have caused. Dave Ewing

Yes John, I agree, I do the same when I am on an "outlap" out of the pits in practice. I see them in the mirror, move off line on the straight, and ease up a tad to let them past... once the outlap is done (or the one immediately after), all bets are off :-) --Dave

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> On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:22:17 -0500, "Scott Sanford" > >In my opinion a lapper should not slow until the faster car has pulled along > >side. In the Papy Cup races we have had several accidents where a > >backmarker will slow unexpectedly in front of a fast car taking them both > >out of the race. IMO the correct behavior for a backmarker is to hold a > >steady line and speed and let the fast car make a move to pass. BTW it is > >very hard to see those arms in a race. > It's nearly impossible to see the arms. I've never noticed them in an > online race or LAN race, although many times watching the replays I've > seen people raising their hands. > I generally find it best to make a very positive move offline exiting > onto a straight, then back off enough to let them power past. > Cheers! > John

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe