I just checked back at a post a from a while ago about CPR that I started.
CPR physics and F1rs physics all feel the same to me, I have played most of
the games out there and all of them feel the same, except the papy sims,
they have a different quality, the brakes arent quite as perfect and
everything is a little different (talking mostly about ICR2, same with N2
but that is different). They have that basic "stick to the road" type of
physics and brake late into a turn and dont run off the road, not many
risks. Besides, I thought that since CPR was released so long ago that the
physics shouldnt be compared to modern physics. I think at the time, CPR
was one of the better sims, it had its flaws but the overall racing
(especially online) was great, and its not often that you can play a game on
a P100 and still get good frame rates. With my current system I can get fps
around 150. I just was asking in the original post, why people hated it AT
THE TIME, not why they hate it now, it is obvious now because of all the
better games out. It was also interesting to see all the people blow up and
revert to name calling and all that fun stuff that people do.
Man you guys think that when I ask a question about why people disliked
a game that it is the only game I play and I play it 24/7 and I sleep with
it. This is a discussion forum and I was starting a discussion but instead
I get insulted, Cmon people.
Jesse
I guess that game brings out some emotions in people, because I think most
all of us here had played the demo and saw great potential. We all ran out
and bought the game, only to find that it was severely lacking in many
areas. This was very dissappointing, but not nearly as dissappointing as
when we found that microsoft had no intentions of supporting their product.
they even hid a 3dfx patch that would greatly increase the framerate on
this, but this was at a time when they were pushing directx hard, and wanted
to show that it was as good as the 3dfx version. they were wrong on many
accounts with this game, and didn't care. That is why so many people resort
to name calling, and such, and that is why they have been doing the same
with nascar revolution. This newsgroup doesn't mind so much if a game is
not good at first, if it has potential and can be fixed, it will get much
praise. f1rs was not too whippy at first, but after several patches, it
turned into a very good f1 sim that gives gp2 a run for its money, and the
post relating to it went from bad to good after patches were released.
Yeah, I just tried the demo (thankfully didn't shell out $$) and thought
the steering rack felt like it was straight out of a Mack truck.
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Here ya go, in order of badness (for me): > 1) The steering is (and was) unbelievably poor. > 2) The AI is (and was) unbelievably poor. > -- > // rrevved posts from mindspring dot comok good posts, just wanted to start a civilized discussion for once without
reverting to name calling and insults. I personally didn't feel the
steering was very bad but that was after the patch was released and I don't
remember it before the patch. I never got to play the demo and I also had
no expectations for anything (wasnt a SIM fan at the time because I didn't
have many sims). I guess I also barely played with the AI, just a little
bit at first, then got to multiplayer and never played AI again. So thats
why I wanted to know what everyone disliked about it and what they liked
about it. Each person probably had a different experience also.
Done rambling
Jesse
Quoted text (20 lines)
>Yeah, I just tried the demo (thankfully didn't shell out $$) and thought >the steering rack felt like it was straight out of a Mack truck. >--Dave >> Here ya go, in order of badness (for me): >> 1) The steering is (and was) unbelievably poor. >> 2) The AI is (and was) unbelievably poor. >> -- >> // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com >-- >Dave Schwabe >The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site >http://users.wi.net/~schwabeOn Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:42:34 -0500, "Wosco"
>Besides, I thought that since CPR was released so long ago that the
>physics shouldnt be compared to modern physics.
CPR was released in Oct '97, about 1 1/2 years ago. Compare to
ICR2/CART (first release late '95, 3 1/2 years ago), NASCAR2 (released
late '96, 2 1/2 years ago), GP2 (released summer '96, almost 3 years
ago). Those were the games that had set the level for CPR to compete
with (all one to two years old when CPR appeared). (And F1RS was
released after CPR in the US, so it was not a benchmark at the time.)
With many of the systems at the time, CPR had subpar performance (I
had a P133/Rendition V1000 and thought so, of course, I had been
running Rendition ICR2 for a year by then - 640x480x16bits at 30fps
:).
I think a lot of the disappointment was with how MS/TRI handled it.
We had guys from MS and/or TRI coming on and telling us how this was
going to be the best sim ever. Papyrus & ICR2 - forget 'em! Geoff
Crammond & GP2 - into the dumper! This is the only sim you'll ever
want or need! (To be clear, they did not disparage the other sims
directly, but that was the clear impression given.) How they wanted
our feedback on the demo, so they could make the final product even
better. How they planned to stand behind it and make sequels (MS
Flight Sim was given as an example of such a long running series by
one rep). Great screenshots. It really looked to be open-wheel sim
nirvana.
Until the *** hit the road.
The demo came out, and was OK, but some people just could not set
things up to make the cars controllable. True, many of us were used
to Papyrus or GPx sims, and part of the problem was that it didn't
handle like them, but a lot of us tried and failed (I ran the demo for
a month and never got the hang of it). Frame rates were slow, and
drastically limited field size (like GPL). Dumb little bugs (like
incorrect speed calculations) and bigger failings (like poor AI or no
tire temperatures to properly evaluate setup changes). It had a lot
of neat stuff crammed into it (like the driving school or the setup
wizard), but it seemed unfinished.
The MS/TRI reps started getting the feedback and it wasn't as rosy
as they had hoped. Some folks were downright rude with their
responses (just like now). The reps tried to tell us that we needed
faster machines, or to tweak the steering setup, or to just drive the
ovals or race online (since the road course AI was so poor). The full
game was released only about a month after the demo, and it became
clear that the feedback that we were providing wasn't going to be used
in the final release (as we thought), but in later patches. Pity the
poor suckers who bought the retail product and never learned of the
patches. I think a lot of folks here thought that was poor behaviour
on MS/TRI's part. So things got uglier. Rep "Dean", in particular,
had at least one major hissy fit (quite unprofessional). There was
one patch released, but the plans for a long-running series of CART
sims from MS is deader than dead.
You really should take a look back on RAS via Deja News to the late
October/November 1997 period. It's fascinating. To summarize, I
think the RAS participants felt like they were taken for a ride with
CPR. If they had just put it out there and it didn't fly, fine, but
it was all the hype and broken promises that soured many (a bit like
what's happening today with NASRev's promise to displace Papyrus N2).
And that's why the mere mention of the sim brings back the
long-repressed bile.
So now you know. :)
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
[SNIP]
[SNIP]
[SNIP]
TRI was not allowed to post to newsgroups, forums, or any other means of
communicating with the customers. Take a look back in Deja News and you
will only find posts from Dean Williams (Microsoft) and one of his
assistants
who also was from Microsoft.
One employee posted a message once on the forum at http://cart.gamestats.com
but was quickly told not to post by Dean Williams. He wanted to help a
customer
but was not allowed to.
MS were the only people that posted to the news group not MS/TRI
Thanks,
John
>will only find posts from Dean Williams (Microsoft) and one of his
Dean Williams????
Quoted text (12 lines)
>On Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:42:34 -0500, >> I just was asking in the original post, why people hated it AT >>THE TIME, not why they hate it now, it is obvious now because of all the >>better games out. >Here ya go, in order of badness (for me): >1) The steering is (and was) unbelievably poor. >2) The AI is (and was) unbelievably poor.Oops sorry! ;-)
I think it was Dean Lester or something like that. I'll just refer to him as
Dean from Microsoft for now!
John
>>will only find posts from Dean Williams (Microsoft) and one of his
>Dean Williams????
>Oops sorry! ;-)
>I think it was Dean Lester or something like that. I'll just refer to him as
>Dean from Microsoft for now!
>John
I think it was Dean f'tang f'tang ole biscuit barrel CART Team, as he
stated himself in one of his messages.
A. Renault
