Monza Banking in GPL 1.1 ?

I know it's been asked many times before but please Papy, give us the banking! I just watched GP the movie's Monza bit and, damn I want to race up there! -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

It is a good idea but I have to say it, go get nascar, hehe, if you really want to drive on banking that bad, get nascar. Jesse

Quoted text (14 lines)

>I know it's been asked many times before but please Papy, give us the >banking! I just watched GP the movie's Monza bit and, damn I want to >race up there! >-- >Cheers! >Graeme Nash >http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >ICQ# 11257824 >1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Hehe, I've got it, have no fear! -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

says... No - that's not the same at all! We want to drive on the banking *and* on the road course section - in the same race! It would be great fun in online races - especially the bit where you come off the Parabolica and you'd be heading down the straight *parallel* to all the cars coming off the banking heading for Curva Grande. Imagine the warping! Imagine the pileups! - Michael

Who was it Bruce? Tim

Quoted text (42 lines)

>GPL is representative of the 1967 season and is, with the exception that >Rouen is included in lieu of Le Mans-Bugatti, an historically-accurate >representation. >The banking was NOT used for F1 cars beyond the 1.5 litre era. >Therefore, to include same in a simulation that does not include a "car >set" of 1.5 litre appearance and performance would reduce the intrinsic >historical value of GPL. >Do you realise that this simulation has been referred to by one notable >ex-F1 driver/television commentator (no, not in the USA)as the most >entertaining history lesson that he's ever seen? Of course, he was >somewhat biased in that he hated school in the first place! >Anyway, that is sufficient reason in my book to leave GPL as is and, if >Papyrus wish to do anything, simply release new products based on what >they have created with GPL. >> I know it's been asked many times before but please Papy, give us the >> banking! I just watched GP the movie's Monza bit and, damn I want to >> race up there! >> -- >> Cheers! >> Graeme Nash >> http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >> ICQ# 11257824 >> 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion >-- >Regards, >Bruce. >---------- >HMRC Web site address is:- >http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm >----------

> Anyway, that is sufficient reason in my book to leave GPL as is and, if > Papyrus wish to do anything, simply release new products based on what > they have created with GPL. Absolutely, and put the banked oval for a 50's season. Then it would be historically accurate and we could have some of those beautiful cars from the period and Fangio would be the guy up front. To get the embedded oval at Monza, it would have to be '55, '56, '60 or '61. I guess 1956 would get my vote provided then modelled the non-championship GPs, mmm Brands Hatch, though '57 with the Pescara circuit even longer the Ring would be good too, but no oval at Monza that year. Look at these seasons: 1953: (Ascari's 2nd great year - Fangio was 2nd): Buenos Aires, Indianapolis (yes an oval), Zandvoort, Spa (essentially the same as '67), Rheims (reputedly one of the greatest Grand Prix races ever), Silverstone, Nurburgring (slightly different to '67, but essentially the same), Bremgarten, Monza (Short but Parabolica replaced by 2 tightly linked corners called Verdano). Other GPs at Syracuse, Pau, Bordeaux, Chimay, Albi and Modena didn't count towards championship 1954 (Fangio begins to dominate): Buenos Aires, Indianapolis, Spa, Rheims, Silverstone, Nurburgring, Bremgarten, Monza (Short with Verdano), Pedralbes. Other GPs at Syracuse, Pau, Bari, Rome, Chimay, Roen, Caen, Pescara, Cadours and Avus (the dog bone with only 2-corners) didn't count towards championship 1955: Buenos Aires, Monaco, Indianapolis, Spa, Zandvoort, Aintree, Monza (with the oval). Other GPs at Turin, Pau, Bordeaux, Naples, Albi and Syracuse didn't count towards championship. 1956: Buenos Aires, Monaco, Indianapolis, Spa, Rheims, Silverstone, Nurburgring, Monza (with the oval). Other GPs at Mendoza, Syracuse, Naples, Caen and Brands Hatch didn't count towards championship. 1957: Buenos Aires, Monaco, Indianapolis, Rouen (the same circuit as '67), Aintree, Nurburgring, Pescara (even longer than Nurburgring pole position 9:44.6 by Fangio), Monza (without the oval). Other GPs at Syracuse, Pau, Naples, Rheims, Caen, Modena and Morocco didn't count towards championship. 1958 (no Fangio): Buenos Aires, Monaco, Zandvoort, Indianapolis, Spa, Rheims, Silverstone, Nurburgring, Porto, Monza (without the oval), Morocco. Other GPs at Syracuse and Caen didn't count towards championship. Cheers, Paul

Sorry, I forgot to edit your message. I meant who is this F1 Driver/Commentator, and where can I read his comments? Thanks Tim >Do you realise that this simulation has been referred to by one notable >ex-F1 driver/television commentator (no, not in the USA)as the most >entertaining history lesson that he's ever seen? Of course, he was >somewhat biased in that he hated school in the first place!

Hey Bruce.... >snip< > Do you realise that this simulation has been referred to by one notable > ex-F1 driver/television commentator (no, not in the USA)as the most > entertaining history lesson that he's ever seen? Who said that?? More info, please! :-) Nice to hear "real" drivers are paying attention to it. -_Dave -- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

GPL is representative of the 1967 season and is, with the exception that Rouen is included in lieu of Le Mans-Bugatti, an historically-accurate representation. The banking was NOT used for F1 cars beyond the 1.5 litre era. Therefore, to include same in a simulation that does not include a "car set" of 1.5 litre appearance and performance would reduce the intrinsic historical value of GPL. Do you realise that this simulation has been referred to by one notable ex-F1 driver/television commentator (no, not in the USA)as the most entertaining history lesson that he's ever seen? Of course, he was somewhat biased in that he hated school in the first place! Anyway, that is sufficient reason in my book to leave GPL as is and, if Papyrus wish to do anything, simply release new products based on what they have created with GPL.

Quoted text (14 lines)

> I know it's been asked many times before but please Papy, give us the > banking! I just watched GP the movie's Monza bit and, damn I want to > race up there! > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824 > 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

says...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > Anyway, that is sufficient reason in my book to leave GPL as is and, if > > Papyrus wish to do anything, simply release new products based on what > > they have created with GPL. > Absolutely, and put the banked oval for a 50's season. Then it would be > historically accurate and we could have some of those beautiful cars from > the period and Fangio would be the guy up front. To get the embedded oval at > Monza, it would have to be '55, '56, '60 or '61. I guess 1956 would get my > vote provided then modelled the non-championship GPs, mmm Brands Hatch, > though '57 with the Pescara circuit even longer the Ring would be good too, > but no oval at Monza that year.

I'd really like to see the late 1930's seasons featuring the battle between Auto-Union and Mercedes. Fantastic drivers such as Nuvolari, Carraciola, Lang, Seaman etc. etc. Those monster Silver Arrows had 500+ bhp and really skinny tires. The tracks were awesome. Doing the cars would be fairly easy - modelling the tracks would be the main effort. As Paul said above, Pescara was longer than the Ring - and that wasn't the only long track in the calendar. - Michael

Ah, I think so... It could be the chap whose car I am so fond of... regardless, nice to know they *approve* of it... --Dave

Quoted text (27 lines)

> G'day dave. > Well, as I've mentioned for Tim, I can't really state the name, for the > reasons mentioned, but if you put two and two together, take into > account where I live, then it shouldn't be too difficult to figure it > out! > > Who said that?? More info, please! :-) Nice to hear "real" drivers are > > paying attention to it. > > -_Dave > > -- > > Dave Schwabe > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe > -- > Regards, > Bruce. > ---------- > HMRC Web site address is:- > http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm > ----------

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

That I can't state as it was said in a recent private conversation. To make mention of the name in a public forum would not be polite and it may give an impression of endor***t of the product. > Who was it Bruce? > Tim -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

Oh my stars....I'm drooling! :o) Yes, there is certainly great scope for some fascinating periods to be modelled by a company such as Papyrus.

Quoted text (38 lines)

> Absolutely, and put the banked oval for a 50's season. Then it would be > historically accurate and we could have some of those beautiful cars from > the period and Fangio would be the guy up front. To get the embedded oval at > Monza, it would have to be '55, '56, '60 or '61. I guess 1956 would get my > vote provided then modelled the non-championship GPs, mmm Brands Hatch, > though '57 with the Pescara circuit even longer the Ring would be good too, > but no oval at Monza that year. > Look at these seasons: > 1953: (Ascari's 2nd great year - Fangio was 2nd): Buenos Aires, Indianapolis > (yes an oval), Zandvoort, Spa (essentially the same as '67), Rheims > (reputedly one of the greatest Grand Prix races ever), Silverstone, > Nurburgring (slightly different to '67, but essentially the same), > Bremgarten, Monza (Short but Parabolica replaced by 2 tightly linked corners > called Verdano). Other GPs at Syracuse, Pau, Bordeaux, Chimay, Albi and > Modena didn't count towards championship > 1954 (Fangio begins to dominate): Buenos Aires, Indianapolis, Spa, Rheims, > Silverstone, Nurburgring, Bremgarten, Monza (Short with Verdano), Pedralbes. > Other GPs at Syracuse, Pau, Bari, Rome, Chimay, Roen, Caen, Pescara, Cadours > and Avus (the dog bone with only 2-corners) didn't count towards > championship > 1955: Buenos Aires, Monaco, Indianapolis, Spa, Zandvoort, Aintree, Monza > (with the oval). Other GPs at Turin, Pau, Bordeaux, Naples, Albi and > Syracuse didn't count towards championship. > 1956: Buenos Aires, Monaco, Indianapolis, Spa, Rheims, Silverstone, > Nurburgring, Monza (with the oval). Other GPs at Mendoza, Syracuse, Naples, > Caen and Brands Hatch didn't count towards championship. > 1957: Buenos Aires, Monaco, Indianapolis, Rouen (the same circuit as '67), > Aintree, Nurburgring, Pescara (even longer than Nurburgring pole position > 9:44.6 by Fangio), Monza (without the oval). Other GPs at Syracuse, Pau, > Naples, Rheims, Caen, Modena and Morocco didn't count towards championship. > 1958 (no Fangio): Buenos Aires, Monaco, Zandvoort, Indianapolis, Spa, > Rheims, Silverstone, Nurburgring, Porto, Monza (without the oval), Morocco. > Other GPs at Syracuse and Caen didn't count towards championship. > Cheers, > Paul

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

See my earlier answer Tim. I'm sorry...I realise that it sounds like a convenient cop-out but I really can't say who it was. As mentioned...it was in private conversation, not in front of the media. > Sorry, I forgot to edit your message. I meant who is this F1 > Driver/Commentator, and where can I read his comments? > Thanks > Tim -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

G'day dave. Well, as I've mentioned for Tim, I can't really state the name, for the reasons mentioned, but if you put two and two together, take into account where I live, then it shouldn't be too difficult to figure it out!

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Who said that?? More info, please! :-) Nice to hear "real" drivers are > paying attention to it. > -_Dave > -- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

There really are some magnificent opportunities for a dedicated group to re-create those eras of motor-racing. If done with the same level of skill and care as Papyrus have done with GPL then the result would be awesome, to say the least. And what a way to represent famous places, cars and people in motor-sports history!

Quoted text (12 lines)

> I'd really like to see the late 1930's seasons featuring the battle > between Auto-Union and Mercedes. Fantastic drivers such as Nuvolari, > Carraciola, Lang, Seaman etc. etc. > Those monster Silver Arrows had 500+ bhp and really skinny tires. The > tracks were awesome. > Doing the cars would be fairly easy - modelling the tracks would be the > main effort. As Paul said above, Pescara was longer than the Ring - and > that wasn't the only long track in the calendar. > - Michael

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

Quoted text (9 lines)

>I'd really like to see the late 1930's seasons featuring the battle >between Auto-Union and Mercedes. Fantastic drivers such as Nuvolari, >Carraciola, Lang, Seaman etc. etc. >Those monster Silver Arrows had 500+ bhp and really skinny tires. The >tracks were awesome. >Doing the cars would be fairly easy - modelling the tracks would be the >main effort. (snip)

Hey, Avus shouldn't be very tough. Only two turns you know. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

Or my namesake Cheers, Paul

Quoted text (42 lines)

> Ah, I think so... > It could be the chap whose car I am so fond of... regardless, nice to > know they *approve* of it... > --Dave > > G'day dave. > > Well, as I've mentioned for Tim, I can't really state the name, for the > > reasons mentioned, but if you put two and two together, take into > > account where I live, then it shouldn't be too difficult to figure it > > out! > > > Who said that?? More info, please! :-) Nice to hear "real" drivers are > > > paying attention to it. > > > -_Dave > > > -- > > > Dave Schwabe > > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce. > > ---------- > > HMRC Web site address is:- > > http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm > > ---------- > -- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Quoted text (7 lines)

>> > Anyway, that is sufficient reason in my book to leave GPL as is and, if >> > Papyrus wish to do anything, simply release new products based on what >> > they have created with GPL. >> Absolutely, and put the banked oval for a 50's season. Then it would be >> historically accurate and we could have some of those beautiful cars from >> the period and Fangio would be the guy up front. To get the embedded oval

at >> Monza, it would have to be '55, '56, '60 or '61. I guess 1956 would get my >> vote provided then modelled the non-championship GPs, mmm Brands Hatch, >> though '57 with the Pescara circuit even longer the Ring would be good too, >> but no oval at Monza that year. I really don't get you guys ... so what if it's historically incorrect, if it's FUN?!?! Or maybe it's just me ... Hena

heheehe I agree with you :) do you remember when GP2 came out ? it had 1994 cars and tracks, and everybody was praying for something <historically correct> ... the slow-mickey-mouse Eau Rouge chicane that F1 used in 1994 :) nobody wanted it .... :) McKafre De La Rosa (my two euros)

<historically incorrect> I mean

>Avus was a much-hated circuit, considered extremely dangerous not only >in its early years but even towards the end, in the early 1960s. It was >very, very bumpy as well as having a surface prone to turning into an >ice-rink at the slightest sign of moisture. >Nobody mourned the passing of Avus. Nobody. I think the germans did who were seperated by a ***y big wall through their country might have minded that it caused the closing of the "old" avus. Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Fair enough. Thanks for replying anyway. Tim

Quoted text (7 lines)

>See my earlier answer Tim. >I'm sorry...I realise that it sounds like a convenient cop-out but I >really can't say who it was. As mentioned...it was in private >conversation, not in front of the media. >----------

It *is* nice, isn't it? Just shows that a well-made simulation can be appreciated by more than just the "youngsters"!

Quoted text (42 lines)

> Ah, I think so... > It could be the chap whose car I am so fond of... regardless, nice to > know they *approve* of it... > --Dave > > G'day dave. > > Well, as I've mentioned for Tim, I can't really state the name, for the > > reasons mentioned, but if you put two and two together, take into > > account where I live, then it shouldn't be too difficult to figure it > > out! > > > Who said that?? More info, please! :-) Nice to hear "real" drivers are > > > paying attention to it. > > > -_Dave > > > -- > > > Dave Schwabe > > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce. > > ---------- > > HMRC Web site address is:- > > http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm > > ---------- > -- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

One of you is closer than the other! :o)

Quoted text (49 lines)

> Or my namesake > Cheers, > Paul > > Ah, I think so... > > It could be the chap whose car I am so fond of... regardless, nice to > > know they *approve* of it... > > --Dave > > > G'day dave. > > > Well, as I've mentioned for Tim, I can't really state the name, for the > > > reasons mentioned, but if you put two and two together, take into > > > account where I live, then it shouldn't be too difficult to figure it > > > out! > > > > Who said that?? More info, please! :-) Nice to hear "real" drivers are > > > > paying attention to it. > > > > -_Dave > > > > -- > > > > Dave Schwabe > > > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Bruce. > > > ---------- > > > HMRC Web site address is:- > > > http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm > > > ---------- > > -- > > Dave Schwabe > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

Avus was a much-hated circuit, considered extremely dangerous not only in its early years but even towards the end, in the early 1960s. It was very, very bumpy as well as having a surface prone to turning into an ice-rink at the slightest sign of moisture. Nobody mourned the passing of Avus. Nobody.

Quoted text (14 lines)

> >I'd really like to see the late 1930's seasons featuring the battle > >between Auto-Union and Mercedes. Fantastic drivers such as Nuvolari, > >Carraciola, Lang, Seaman etc. etc. > >Those monster Silver Arrows had 500+ bhp and really skinny tires. The > >tracks were awesome. > >Doing the cars would be fairly easy - modelling the tracks would be the > >main effort. (snip) > Hey, Avus shouldn't be very tough. Only two turns you know. > Don McCorkle > Libertarian Motorsports

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

>I have no objection against FUN, Hena. After all, I wouldn't be into >GPL if it weren't fun first and foremost. I never said you didn't, Bruce :) Reason? How about plain old FUN? I respect you and the likes of you not wanting to add on things that weren't there in 1967, but why would you deny the rest of us those things? I would love to race on tracks like Brands Hatch or banked Monza in GPL I they were available. You wouldn't have to. I know this might be a cheap shot, but I guess you don't race Rouen until GPL models aerodynamics and cars have wings, like they did in '68? Hena

I have no objection against FUN, Hena. After all, I wouldn't be into GPL if it weren't fun first and foremost. However, as it IS an historical representation, as Mr. Kaemmer went to great pains to point out almost 13 months ago, I see no reason to simply add bits on that have no historical accuracy or integration whatsoever. By the same token, I would love to race on the Monza banking, but only if the car that I can choose to drive is limited to one of the type that actually raced at Monza when the banking was in use. In this way I can enjoy the moment yet still do so in an historical scenario without disturbing my sensibilities. I see no merit in being able to race a mixture ofwhatever, wherever and whenever. > I really don't get you guys ... so what if it's historically incorrect, if > it's FUN?!?! > Or maybe it's just me ... -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

Don't generalise. > nobody wanted it .... :) -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

By "nobody" I implied racing drivers. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

On Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:27:30 +1100, Bruce Kennewell >Cheap shot? No, not at all, just uninformed. >Not all the teams (in fact, only a minority) had outfitted their cars >with wings for the 1967 French GP held at Rouen. >So I have no qualms about driving at Rouen at all. Papyrus provided it >in their wisdom (which just happens to be better than that shown by the >French authorities when they chose Le Mans-Bugatti for a Grand Prix!) Personnally, I would race any damn track, and as many tracks as I could fit on my hard drive with an engine as great as GPL's. Perhaps the best solution would be to have different tracks in different seasons, but what the hell... I mean even in 1967 the cars could race on Monza's banked section if they wanted... Maybe it shouldn't be included in the 1967 schedule, that's all... A. Renault

Bruce Kennewell wrote Ray guns in Star Wars ? ;-) -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

> Reason? How about plain old FUN? I respect you and the likes of you not > wanting to add on things that weren't there in 1967, but why would you deny > the rest of us those things? I would love to race on tracks like Brands > Hatch or banked Monza in GPL I they were available. You wouldn't have to. Well, to follow that premise, you would advocate that the aircraft represented in an historical WW1 flight simulation should be able to be equipped with Sidewinder missiles? Or that a wargame such as Close Combat III, for example, should outfit the soldiers with Star Wars ray guns? Cheap shot? No, not at all, just uninformed. Not all the teams (in fact, only a minority) had outfitted their cars with wings for the 1967 French GP held at Rouen. So I have no qualms about driving at Rouen at all. Papyrus provided it in their wisdom (which just happens to be better than that shown by the French authorities when they chose Le Mans-Bugatti for a Grand Prix!) -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

On Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:27:30 +1100, Bruce Kennewell >So I have no qualms about driving at Rouen at all. Papyrus provided it >in their wisdom (which just happens to be better than that shown by the >French authorities when they chose Le Mans-Bugatti for a Grand Prix!) Rouen is okay, but I would have prefered Clermont-Ferrand, site of the 1966 French GP, as featured in "Grand Prix". -- _____ /_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d I XT /~~~~ I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro \____/\__I_I http://matthead.home.pages.de/

Wouldn't exactly advocate it, but if they put Sidewinders on a Fokker and an option to use them, fine. I wouldn't necessarily use the option, but then again, might make a hell of a lot fun in an multiplayer game if everyone used them :) ... all it boils down to is fun. Our views of fun just might differ a bit ... Hena

>Wouldn't exactly advocate it, but if they put Sidewinders on a Fokker and an >option to use them, fine. I wouldn't necessarily use the option, but then >again, might make a hell of a lot fun in an multiplayer game if everyone >used them :) Dont' you think that sidewinders on a fokker would a) set your cardboard biplane/triplane alight upon launch and b) utterly fail to lock on to the non jet-engines of other planes? Just a thought ;-) Uwe -- Spam-proof e-mail: Uwe Schuerkamp <hoover at telemedia . de> http://www.telemedia.de/~hoover ////// Phone: +49-5241-80-10-66 Best of Scottish Folk: http://home.pages.de/~nsg >>> Blue Ribbon Campaign: Support Free Speech on the Internet <<<

Quoted text (12 lines)

>>Wouldn't exactly advocate it, but if they put Sidewinders on a Fokker and an >>option to use them, fine. I wouldn't necessarily use the option, but then >>again, might make a hell of a lot fun in an multiplayer game if everyone >>used them :) >Dont' you think that sidewinders on a fokker would > a) set your cardboard biplane/triplane alight upon launch and > b) utterly fail to lock on to the non jet-engines of other > planes? >Just a thought ;-)

As the man said: "might make a hell of a lot fun in an multiplayer game if everyone used them :)" :-) Remco

I think that's a bit of an unfair analogy, Bruce. Using the banking at Monza is more like creating a WW2 game where say the US bombers can use atomic bombs on an as-yet undefeated Germany in 1946. After all, the banking *was* there in 1967, it just wasn't thought safe to use it. The Lotus simulated in GPL raced perfectly well at Indy with Jim Clark at the wheel. - Michael

that's it - i am going to make my very own simulator. i will call it "monza banking 2000". it'll sell millions.

Quoted text (17 lines)

>> Well, to follow that premise, you would advocate that the aircraft >> represented in an historical WW1 flight simulation should be able to be >> equipped with Sidewinder missiles? Or that a wargame such as Close >> Combat III, for example, should outfit the soldiers with Star Wars ray >> guns? >I think that's a bit of an unfair analogy, Bruce. Using the banking at >Monza is more like creating a WW2 game where say the US bombers can use >atomic bombs on an as-yet undefeated Germany in 1946. >After all, the banking *was* there in 1967, it just wasn't thought safe >to use it. >The Lotus simulated in GPL raced perfectly well at Indy with Jim Clark at >the wheel. >- Michael

Michael heeft geschreven in bericht ... But they used the banking during the 1000km sportscar race in 1967! I have a great pic of a Chaparral 2F on the banking during that race. However I don't like the idea of the banking in GPL because it would be historically incorrect Harald

What's wrong with a "what if" scenario? After all it was historically incorrect to use Rouen in GPL - it should have been the Le Mans Bugatti circuit. Anyway this is all a bit academic as it looks as though the GPL track format is too difficult to decipher and edit. AFAIK the track editor project is only at the stage of being to display the vertices of the track. - Michael

The Lotus simulated in GPL was as far removed from that which raced at Indy as an MGB is from an MGF! The GPL Lotus is the Type 49, powered by the Ford Cosworth 3.0 litre DFV engine, designed and manufactured in England. If you are referring to the Lotus which Clark raced and won with in 1965 then it was the Type 38 and was powered by a Ford pushrod engine, designed and manufactured in the USA. The Type 38 was what Chapman called a "tub" mode of construction: it was not a full monocoque, unlike the 1967-built Type 49 Grand Prix car, where the engine was actually a stressed-member of the construction. In the Type 38, the engine was contained within beams and did not simply bolt to the rear bulkhead, like the Type 49. The car that Clark raced at Indy in 1966 was 38/4, this time in STP colours, not the Lotus green and gold. He failed to secure back-to-back victories due to two mid-race spins. In 1967....the year that GPL represents and the year that the Type 49 Grand Prix car was debuted, Clark drove at Indy in 38/7, again with Ford V8 power. His partner, Graham ill, drove the Type 42F, with the same type of power-plant, the car being cobbled up after the Indy version of the BRM H-16 engine was dropped. > The Lotus simulated in GPL raced perfectly well at Indy with Jim Clark at > the wheel. > - Michael -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The Stunned Mullet-------seriously satirical stuff! http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/mullet/index.htm ----------

Bruce, Thanks for the info - I stand corrected... I take it you're not in favour of someone doing an Indianapolis Speedway track for GPL then:-) - Michael

Interestingly enough, Michael, up until 1960 the Indy 500 was actually included by the FIA as a World Championship event!! (Ironic that in 1961, when the race no longer counted towards the F1 Championship, Jack Brabhams Cooper-Climax came 9th.) But no....I really wouldn't appreciate a GPL Indianapolis circuit. HOWEVER.......if somebody (Papyrus?????) came out with package that included the Indianapolis circuit circa the 1950s - 1960s period, and the package included car models of the Offy-engined roadsters, then sure....I'd be in the shop to buy it!

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Bruce, > Thanks for the info - I stand corrected... > I take it you're not in favour of someone doing an Indianapolis Speedway > track for GPL then:-) > - Michael

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The Stunned Mullet-------seriously satirical stuff! http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/mullet/index.htm ----------

writes: Wait! Don't do it YET. I just got OUT of debt.... :) Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.