glide vs. directX: It's no competition at all!

Am I the only one or do others agree with me: I just compared MGPRS2 GLide version to the DirectX version and find it really amazing the yeven bothered porting it to DirectX!! I have a MonsterII (12MB) and an AGP ASUS V3400 TNT card (16MB) used for the two respective versions and really find the difference enormous (in favour of glide in case you didn't notice). In fact I am a bit suspicious whether everything is setup correctly on my system! What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX? Jan.

Glide is superior to DirectX, plain an simple. DirectX is intended to provide global support for all 3D cards. Glide is written for a specific chipset and is therefore able to take advantage of that chipset. Look at any game that will allow you to switch between DirectX/Direct3D and Glide and you will see a definite difference in graphic speed and quality. Todd On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:40:53 +0100, Jan Hovius

Quoted text (11 lines)

>Am I the only one or do others agree with me: I just compared MGPRS2 GLide >version to the DirectX version and find it really amazing the yeven >bothered porting it to DirectX!! I have a MonsterII (12MB) and an AGP ASUS >V3400 TNT card (16MB) used for the two respective versions and really find >the difference enormous (in favour of glide in case you didn't notice). >In fact I am a bit suspicious whether everything is setup correctly on my >system! >What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX? >Jan.

Hi Jan I have just bought into the same combo U have a V2 and the AsusTNT, Now i just nead to know Which card is doing the work with respect to the OpenGL apps ???? Thanks Craig

>What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX? >Jan. Nope, becuase Glide only provides graphics routines ;) DirectX provides Graphcis, sound, input, & other features. If you mean Glide V Direct3D, then the TNT in D3D wins hands down in image quailty over a 3Dfx card in either D3D or Glide. Bottom line is: D3D/OpenGl are multi-card API's. Glide is 3Dfx only- and on the V3 specs.... 3Dfx is something to run very far from. Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

>If you mean Glide V Direct3D, then the TNT in D3D wins hands down in image >quailty over a 3Dfx card in either D3D or Glide. Why don't you try F1RS and see how well a TNT does in D3D. Unless you know what the heck you are doing/talking about. In that case you will have a 3dfx of some type in your rig. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Quoted text (16 lines)

> On Mon, 01 Mar 1999 10:28:05 GMT, > >>What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX? > >>Jan. > >Nope, becuase Glide only provides graphics routines ;) > >DirectX provides Graphcis, sound, input, & other features. > So D3D is not specialized for graphics... hmmm..

D3D is, DirectX isn't. D3D is only the graphics part of DirectX. But I think you already know that, don't you :). GPL does not have native support for D3D. If it would have, it would rock the socks of of 3Dfx. 1600x1200 high enough? TNT does that already. -- Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands. Cheetah Racing : http://renevanl.www.cistron.nl/cheetah/index_nl.html Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/ AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

Glide is a thinner wrapper over the hardware. The API fit well with the then-current rasterization abstraction that many game companies were using. So Glide was very easy to incorporate into games back when 3D acceleration was still a question mark. D3D is a bit higher level abstraction. And early D3D had an abysmal interface for the programmers to work with. MS listened to the OpenGL proponents and now D3D is Good Enough from a programming point of view. But, being a higher level abstraction that runs on a wide range of cards, it's more difficult to get a game to look really good on all those cards. It'll look great on some and mediocre on others. If the developers don't have a great deal of experience working with the various 3D hardware then they'll likely simplify their lives and write for the lowest common denominator. It's very likely that they can make Glide look noticably better than D3D on the same 3dfx card. So, it really depends on the game. For some, Glide is better. For others, D3D is better. Neither is inherently better than the other visually. There are pros and cons for the various APIs, including OpenGl. There are business pros and cons to releasing for a single- vendor API vs the more generic APIs. Me, I have a TNT and a Voodoo2. For the past few weeks, the best of all worlds. I expect that to change in another week or two :-) Mighty

Quoted text (17 lines)

>On Mon, 01 Mar 1999 10:28:05 GMT, >>>What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX? >>>Jan. >>Nope, becuase Glide only provides graphics routines ;) >>DirectX provides Graphcis, sound, input, & other features. >So D3D is not specialized for graphics... hmmm..

D3D is a subset of DIrect3D. In any case, most Glide games use DirectX components for other functions. Clearly, i'm pointing out that D3D and DirectX are not the same thing. Why, the TNT setup will run in much higher res that a V2 Sli setup. :) and the price difference is around hmm 80 for a TNT 16mb, around 150 for a SLI Setup. Well, i've got a TNT and V2 Sli setup, and quite frnkly i know what i'm happier running. The TNT wins hands down each time. Z Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

snip > > So D3D is not specialized for graphics... hmmm.. > D3D is, DirectX isn't. D3D is only the graphics part of DirectX. > But I think you already know that, don't you :). D3D is one of the graphical components of DirectX, there's DirectDraw as well. But I'm sure you knew... ;^) The V2 SLI would run faster (even without socks)... Great for screenshots! I'd rather have 36fps using 1024x768... l8er ronny -- Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

I have a TNT AGP and 2xVoodoo2 in SLI. It's horses for courses. As far as fps goes nothing is as fast as SLI - even TNT. TNT is better for colours, and much better for 2D (well V2 just doesn't do it) and supports TV out etc. For racing SLI has to be better, you just don't have time to admire the rich colours of the scenery and racing speeds - you just want fps and resolution. TNT goes to 1600x1200 but the fps is insufficient to drive on in any game I play regulary. The next chapter will probably see a reversal. TNT2 will support SLI and probably be at least as quick as Voodoo3 which will be hardly any quicker than Voodoo2. This is not surprising since Voodoo3 won't really be Voodoo3 but Banshee2. Colours will still see NVidia ahead of 3dfx. Cheers, Paul

Quoted text (17 lines)

> >What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX? > >Jan. > Nope, becuase Glide only provides graphics routines ;) > DirectX provides Graphcis, sound, input, & other features. > If you mean Glide V Direct3D, then the TNT in D3D wins hands down in image > quailty over a 3Dfx card in either D3D or Glide. > Bottom line is: D3D/OpenGl are multi-card API's. Glide is 3Dfx only- and on > the V3 specs.... 3Dfx is something to run very far from. > Z. > Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

> and the price difference is around hmm 80 for a TNT 16mb, around 150 for a > SLI Setup. Hmm, you are getting a really good deal on your TNT and a really bad one on your V2. Last week I bought both - can't remeber precisely but around 120 for SLI and 100 for the TNT. Cheers, Paul

As far as DirectX v Glide - of course, Glide is quicker and ever more shall be so D3D uses not only uses COM (yuck) but also layers still more indirection below that. Glide goes straight to the point. This is why Windows 2000 will struggle to provide anything like the *** performance that Windows 98 (yuck) can provide. W2000, belonging as it does to the NT family of operating systems, will not allow direct reads and writes to the hardware. Games will have to go through the operating system for input and output. This is great if you are terrified of security breaches or viruses and so good for business, but for us gamers it is going to be a tough sale for Microsoft. Are we going to have to bin all our old games? Are games developers willing to put in all that work modifying their software so that they will now run slower. Sure processors in 2002 (or whenever) are going to be quicker but who can remember any game not benefitting from extra CPU. No matter how quick the processors get there are always going to be uses more important from a gamer's viewpoint than COM and NT. How about 8000 by 6000 resolution, 150 fps, 32bit colours at these resolutions, modelling micro bumps on the tracks, etc etc. Need I go on? Cheers, Paul

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Am I the only one or do others agree with me: I just compared MGPRS2 GLide > version to the DirectX version and find it really amazing the yeven > bothered porting it to DirectX!! I have a MonsterII (12MB) and an AGP ASUS > V3400 TNT card (16MB) used for the two respective versions and really find > the difference enormous (in favour of glide in case you didn't notice). > In fact I am a bit suspicious whether everything is setup correctly on my > system! > What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX? > Jan.

I have PII 450 with a TNT AGP and one 12MB Voodoo2. For GPL, is there any benefit gained from having another Voodoo2 in SLI? I know the max framerate is 36fps, but is the startline framerate improved over a single Voodoo2? Or is the framerate at 1024x768 improved? Thanks in advance, Brian >I have a TNT AGP and 2xVoodoo2 in SLI. It's horses for courses. As far as fps goes nothing is >as fast as SLI - even TNT.

I'm not completely sure because it's a while since I had a single Voodoo2 and then it was only for a short time. Though through the hazy mists of time, I do seem to remember a marked improvement. Without SLI, I often used to go over 36 fps, but with two it varies between high 35.xxs and 36.00. I think this is the real limit. I get a consistent 36 fps at 1024x768 everywhere except at the start and even then only if I'm not towards the front of the grid. I don't know whether the start grid is CPU or graphics card bound so it maybe that you can do a little better than me since I have a PII 400MHz. In other games SLI makes a bigger difference since GPL limits fps to 36 for synchronisation reasons. Need For Speed 3 (did I mention an EA title :-) ) and TOCA2 look gorgeous - worth it just for graphics alone. MGPRS2 looks pretty good, very smooth, but the resolution seems to be limited to 800x600. Viper Racing looks excellent and, as I remember, delivers in excess of 40 fps in 1024x768. For non-racing titles, there are a wealth of games that really use the full grunt of SLI. G-Police (the one that comes with the cards in the UK) looks fantastic. Cheers, Paul

Quoted text (13 lines)

> I have PII 450 with a TNT AGP and one 12MB Voodoo2. For GPL, is there any > benefit gained from having another Voodoo2 in SLI? I know the max framerate > is 36fps, but is the startline framerate improved over a single Voodoo2? Or > is the framerate at 1024x768 improved? > Thanks in advance, > Brian > >I have a TNT AGP and 2xVoodoo2 in SLI. It's horses for courses. As far as > fps goes nothing is > >as fast as SLI - even TNT.

> (yuck) can provide. W2000, belonging as it does to the NT family of operating > systems, will not allow direct reads and writes to the hardware. Games will > have to go through the operating system for input and output. Ring 0 drivers are essentially part of the operating system. You're quite right that applications (games especially!) should not write to the hardware. That's one reason why drivers, and their attendant layers of indirection, are flouted as good things. How about Falcon 3? Ever hear of moslo.com? I see now that I've contributed to a waste of bandwidth. Michael.

Really? I have a Diamond Viper 550 AGP AND a Monster II in a PII 450 system. In Viper Racing, the Diamond card beats the Voodoo II by 2fps. It also looks better. Overall feel in NFSIII is about the same. They equally suck in Nascar Revolution. Or, I should say, Nascar Revolution sucks equally with either card :) It's really a toss up on my system. I use the one that crashes the least :) Oh, MTM2 doesn't seem to like the V2 (locks up in the 2D Menu's) but the TNT works wonderfully. Given 3dfx's business direction with V3, I think they are in for a hard sell compared to D3D cards in the comming year. -Larry > As far as DirectX v Glide - of course, Glide is quicker and ever more shall be > so D3D uses not only uses COM (yuck) but also layers still more indirection > below that. Glide goes straight to the point. This is why Windows 2000 will > struggle to provide anything like the *** performance that Windows 98 > (yuck) can provide.