Thriller/Rendition a Washout for High-End GPL Systems?

Yesterday, I received a Thriller 3D 8MB AGP card. With anxious anticipation, I dropped it in my PC, replacing the Banshee that had frustrated me with its intermittent texture problems. Man, was I surprised! First thing I noticed was my desktop. The Banshee offered 100Hz at 1024 x 768. The Thriller? Could do no better than 90Hz. In addition, as much as I adjusted both the horizontal and vertical moir settings on my monitor, I just couldn't quite get rid of all the moir effects that Thriller was producing in collaboration with my 19" Hitachi 751. The Banshee 2D screen had been superb and quick. I'm in front of my PC all day, so these aspects of the Thriller weren't thrilling me. But superb GPL performance awaited, so I moved on. After downloading the latest Thriller drivers from Hercules, I was finally able to run GPL at a Banshee-matching 1024 x 768. (The out-of-the-box drivers had only offered 800 x 600.) I then quickly discovered that, even in Training mode, the Thriller couldn't hit 36fps with the graphics settings that I usually use for online racing. With less than 2 hours left until race time, I had to get going. Opted for the 800 x 600 quick fix. Another disturbing thing I noticed regarded vertical scan frequency in GPL. My Banshee had provided 100Hz at 1024 x 768. With the Thriller the frequency dropped to 75Hz at a *lower* 800x 600 resolution. My money says that in a Pro Long or GP length event, my eyes will *feel* that difference! And to add insult to injury, when I left GPL, my 1024 desktop was restored at 75Hz, not the 90Hz I was in when I started GPL. With the Banshee my desktop had always been restored to 100Hz. Puzzled by all this I decided to do a little testing this morning. Here the results: Track: Watkins Glen Mode: Training Graphics Settings: At Maximum (except as noted) Sound Settings: At Maximum ---------------------------------------- Hercules Thriller 3D 8 MB AGP Resolution: 800 x 600 With Anti-Aliasing: FPS 24-28 Esses 28-30 Average Elsewhere 31 Maximum Without Anti-Aliasing: FPS 25-31 Esses 29-30 Average Elsewhere 34 Maximum ---------------------------------------- Creative Labs 3D Blaster Banshee 16MB AGP Resolution: 1024 x 768 Without Anti-Aliasing (not available): FPS 35-36 Esses 35-36 Average Elsewhere 36 Maximum ---------------------------------------- Test Platform: PII-450-128MB These results seem to speak for themselves. The Banshee basically pegs the frame counter all the way around the Glen. The Thriller runs around 28-30 fps typically, dropping noticeably in a few spots on the track. Amazingly, the Banshee was tested at 1024 x 768 and the Rendition-based Thriller at 800 x 600! Having owned all four of the GPL-friendly boards (Banshee, Voodoo2, TNT, and now Rendition), I'd have to say that my unequivocal recommendation, among currently available boards, is Banshee, at least for higher end systems. Let's just hope the intermittent texture problems get resolved by future drivers! Hope this helps a few of you trying to make a video board decision for GPL! P.S. I have a 1-day-old Thriller for sale for $70 + shipping (that's my cost less BuyComp.com's restocking fee) for anybody that wants it!

Steven... My experience is primarily limited to GPL, so I can feel comfortable in saying that in order to really enjoy GPL you definitely need hardware acceleration in the form of either a Rendition-based or 3Dfx-based card. In my opinion, TNT and GPL aren't a match made in heaven *yet*, even with the OpenGL patch and new drivers. As my post indicates, I've had the best luck with the 3Dfx-based Banshee (It's a 2D/3D single-slot solution). Unfortunately, I have N99 but have never run it in DOS mode, so I can't comment there. Bear in mind that video chip performance may vary depending upon where your other system hardware falls in the performance spectrum. Good luck. I suspect you'll get some more feedback shortly! >>Yesterday, I received a Thriller 3D 8MB AGP card. With anxious anticipation, >>I dropped it in my PC, replacing the Banshee that had frustrated me with its

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>>intermittent texture problems. Man, was I surprised! >>First thing I noticed was my desktop. The Banshee offered 100Hz at 1024 x >>768. The Thriller? Could do no better than 90Hz. In addition, as much as I >>adjusted both the horizontal and vertical moir settings on my monitor, I >>just couldn't quite get rid of all the moir effects that Thriller was >>producing in collaboration with my 19" Hitachi 751. The Banshee 2D screen >>had been superb and quick. I'm in front of my PC all day, so these aspects >>of the Thriller weren't thrilling me. But superb GPL performance awaited,

so

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>= >I really appreciate all you have told us, I really do. I do have one >question please. Have you and do you run the games like Nascar2 and or >Nascar99 in DOS mode in network play and MULTIPLAYER like on the >Internet Online. The only way to play in multi player is in DOS mode >and would like to know if any of the cards you compared have given you >any results good or bad in DOS mode. Thank you very much for any info, >I really appreciate it as I am changing cards very soon and am pulling >out my Riva TNT and am on the fence whether to go with Matrox Mystique >(because of expansion and video out or Thriller because of video out >and rendition. Thank you again. >======== >Steven S. Palmer >http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4001/ >http://www.primenet.com/~ssp/ >http://members.tripod.com/~stevenscott/

Hmmm..........your making strong selling points......hehe I have a PII 300 and a Hercules Thriller 4mb......actually, I was descently satisfied with it in GPL, of course I was using it in conjunction with a Monster 2 3d 12 meg card, which definantly could have helped me with my constant 36 fps...............BUT, my problem was I could never get the dern thing to run in DOS.........I tried the drivers on the site, and still would lock up when attempting ANYTHING in dos, including installing N2 for use with TEN...........So I now have a <cough cough> Diamond speedster for my 2d board.........and I absolutley hate it........all my 2d graphics are washed out and bland......I cant seem to run N2 in a full screen (which could be my moniter) but........point being, thank you for your comments on Banshee as I have been planning on on that for my next purchase to improve my *** experience. I now feel very confident that it will be the correct way to go. JT

Wow, an unfortunate situation indeed. However my experience with two thrillers in two different systems has been nothing short of astounding. I was getting the celeron 300a overclocked to 450 and a thriller 8meg pci it runs high 20s on the back of the grid and 36 before 2nd gear. All graphics and all ai cars, Also, 2d and general performance and looks in all other uses is great, no complaints. I am definitely not techno brainiac but I recall hearing that the agp version does not perform as well as the pci version, perhaps a trade is possible. It may not be worth it however as again from what Iv'e heard the Banshee is a great card once you get the drivers correctly configured to fix those pesky texture problems. JM > mr lucky, which is damn fortunate

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> Yesterday, I received a Thriller 3D 8MB AGP card. With anxious anticipation, > I dropped it in my PC, replacing the Banshee that had frustrated me with its > intermittent texture problems. Man, was I surprised! > First thing I noticed was my desktop. The Banshee offered 100Hz at 1024 x > 768. The Thriller? Could do no better than 90Hz. In addition, as much as I > adjusted both the horizontal and vertical moir settings on my monitor, I > just couldn't quite get rid of all the moir effects that Thriller was > producing in collaboration with my 19" Hitachi 751. The Banshee 2D screen > had been superb and quick. I'm in front of my PC all day, so these aspects > of the Thriller weren't thrilling me. But superb GPL performance awaited, so > I moved on. > After downloading the latest Thriller drivers from Hercules, I was finally > able to run GPL at a Banshee-matching 1024 x 768. (The out-of-the-box > drivers had only offered 800 x 600.) I then quickly discovered that, even in > Training mode, the Thriller couldn't hit 36fps with the graphics settings > that I usually use for online racing. With less than 2 hours left until race > time, I had to get going. Opted for the 800 x 600 quick fix. > Another disturbing thing I noticed regarded vertical scan frequency in GPL. > My Banshee had provided 100Hz at 1024 x 768. With the Thriller the frequency > dropped to 75Hz at a *lower* 800x 600 resolution. My money says that in a > Pro Long or GP length event, my eyes will *feel* that difference! And to add > insult to injury, when I left GPL, my 1024 desktop was restored at 75Hz, not > the 90Hz I was in when I started GPL. With the Banshee my desktop had always > been restored to 100Hz. > Puzzled by all this I decided to do a little testing this morning. Here the > results: > Track: Watkins Glen > Mode: Training > Graphics Settings: At Maximum (except as noted) > Sound Settings: At Maximum > ---------------------------------------- > Hercules Thriller 3D 8 MB AGP > Resolution: 800 x 600 > With Anti-Aliasing: > FPS > 24-28 Esses > 28-30 Average Elsewhere > 31 Maximum > Without Anti-Aliasing: > FPS > 25-31 Esses > 29-30 Average Elsewhere > 34 Maximum > ---------------------------------------- > Creative Labs 3D Blaster Banshee 16MB AGP > Resolution: 1024 x 768 > Without Anti-Aliasing (not available): > FPS > 35-36 Esses > 35-36 Average Elsewhere > 36 Maximum > ---------------------------------------- > Test Platform: > PII-450-128MB > These results seem to speak for themselves. The Banshee basically pegs the > frame counter all the way around the Glen. The Thriller runs around 28-30 > fps typically, dropping noticeably in a few spots on the track. Amazingly, > the Banshee was tested at 1024 x 768 and the Rendition-based Thriller at 800 > x 600! > Having owned all four of the GPL-friendly boards (Banshee, Voodoo2, TNT, and > now Rendition), I'd have to say that my unequivocal recommendation, among > currently available boards, is Banshee, at least for higher end systems. > Let's just hope the intermittent texture problems get resolved by future > drivers! > Hope this helps a few of you trying to make a video board decision for GPL! > P.S. I have a 1-day-old Thriller for sale for $70 + shipping (that's my cost > less BuyComp.com's restocking fee) for anybody that wants it!

here's my $.02 had a 233mmx with 8meg Thriller pci, V2sli and on that machine, GPL was better with the Thriller. Just built a P2 500 and GPL is much better using the V2 sli. The Thriller was pulled from my new machine in favor of Matrox G200. Had nothing but problems with the thriller. The only reason I still had it in the old machine was that it made N2 rock. Now I run N99 thru the V2's and said goodbye to the pain-in-the-ass thriller. OH, btw, "for sale, Herc Thriller 8meg pci...best offer"

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>Steven... >My experience is primarily limited to GPL, so I can feel comfortable in >saying that in order to really enjoy GPL you definitely need hardware >acceleration in the form of either a Rendition-based or 3Dfx-based card. In >my opinion, TNT and GPL aren't a match made in heaven *yet*, even with the >OpenGL patch and new drivers. As my post indicates, I've had the best luck >with the 3Dfx-based Banshee (It's a 2D/3D single-slot solution). >Unfortunately, I have N99 but have never run it in DOS mode, so I can't >comment there. >Bear in mind that video chip performance may vary depending upon where your >other system hardware falls in the performance spectrum. >Good luck. I suspect you'll get some more feedback shortly! >>>Yesterday, I received a Thriller 3D 8MB AGP card. With anxious >anticipation, >>>I dropped it in my PC, replacing the Banshee that had frustrated me with >its >>>intermittent texture problems. Man, was I surprised! >>>First thing I noticed was my desktop. The Banshee offered 100Hz at 1024 x >>>768. The Thriller? Could do no better than 90Hz. In addition, as much as

I >>>adjusted both the horizontal and vertical moir settings on my monitor, I >>>just couldn't quite get rid of all the moir effects that Thriller was >>>producing in collaboration with my 19" Hitachi 751. The Banshee 2D screen >>>had been superb and quick. I'm in front of my PC all day, so these aspects

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>>>of the Thriller weren't thrilling me. But superb GPL performance awaited, >so >>= >>I really appreciate all you have told us, I really do. I do have one >>question please. Have you and do you run the games like Nascar2 and or >>Nascar99 in DOS mode in network play and MULTIPLAYER like on the >>Internet Online. The only way to play in multi player is in DOS mode >>and would like to know if any of the cards you compared have given you >>any results good or bad in DOS mode. Thank you very much for any info, >>I really appreciate it as I am changing cards very soon and am pulling >>out my Riva TNT and am on the fence whether to go with Matrox Mystique >>(because of expansion and video out or Thriller because of video out >>and rendition. Thank you again. >>======== >>Steven S. Palmer >>http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4001/ >>http://www.primenet.com/~ssp/ >>http://members.tripod.com/~stevenscott/

I have found very similar results to yours in GPL. I too have a PII-450 128MB system. Two 12MB Voodoo2's are much faster than 1 8MB Rendition V2200 (VRaptor AGP). However I keep the VRaptor installed for Indycar II-3D, NROS and SODA. It works great with those. Wayne Hutchison

> I have found very similar results to yours in GPL. I too have a PII-450 > 128MB system. Two 12MB Voodoo2's are much faster than 1 8MB Rendition V2200 > (VRaptor AGP). However I keep the VRaptor installed for Indycar II-3D, NROS > and SODA. It works great with those. Hi Wayne While I'm happier with my Thriller in GPL than you are, I get about the same frame rate with Thriller 8MB as I do with SLI V2's on a oc'ed 400, N2 has been the only reason while I've been*** onto it, NR1999 will now put an end to this :-), I've been terribly dissapointed with the 2D performance of the Thriller, especially in plain Windows mode, and the fact that Hercules latest drivers are labeled 0.85 makes me wonder, latest being june/luly of 98 ?, huh, you'd think I'd learned my lesson from the Stingray128/3D I once owned :-), but I'd still say that for people with "lower" spec machines, a Thriller would be a fairly good choice, especially with the asking price for it these days, and if you want to run N2, ICR2 and Soda, well need I say more Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy