Steering Wheels for GPL

I am thinking of buying a new wheel and pedals to use mainly for GPL. This is to replace a digital edge F1 sim wheel. My requirements are : - Digital control, not potentiometers (which drift and get dirty). - separate axes for brake and accelerator. - Good pedal feel. - Force feedback would be nice (I know GPL doesn't support it). - Robust I am unsure whether a FF wheel would be a good idea, as I don't know whether you get any self centering on a non FF game such as GPL. I have heard that the Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel is good. Another alternative is the Saitek R4, either with or without FF. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Paul Harrington

On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0000, "Paul Harrington" >:I am thinking of buying a new wheel and pedals to use mainly for GPL. This >:is to replace a digital edge F1 sim wheel. My requirements are : >: >:- Digital control, not potentiometers (which drift and get dirty). MS FF Wheel >:- separate axes for brake and accelerator. MS FF Wheel >:- Good pedal feel. MS FF Wheel >:- Force feedback would be nice (I know GPL doesn't support it). MS FF Wheel >:- Robust If by Robust you mean well built, then MS FF Wheel Yes, you do. You have several (motorized) resistance settings and all have RTC force. You can also turn off resistance by simply hitting the "Force" button, but your RTC goes also. I have 2 MS Wheels and know nothing of Saitek, except their flight controllers, which I have a low opinion of... (of course, I don't think much of MS flight controls either!) I am happy with my MS Wheels.

I Purchased the Saitek R4 without force feedback on Monday from PC World for 80. I like it !!! I refused however to pay an extra 50 pounds for the FF. It gets my vote, (GP2 heaven) Ben Summers

As far as I remember the Saitek is based on teh same FF mechanisms as the MS wheel.... >On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0000, "Paul Harrington" >>:I am thinking of buying a new wheel and pedals to use mainly for GPL. This

Quoted text (14 lines)

>>:is to replace a digital edge F1 sim wheel. My requirements are : >>: >>:- Digital control, not potentiometers (which drift and get dirty). >MS FF Wheel >>:- separate axes for brake and accelerator. >MS FF Wheel >>:- Good pedal feel. >MS FF Wheel >>:- Force feedback would be nice (I know GPL doesn't support it). >MS FF Wheel >>:- Robust >If by Robust you mean well built, then MS FF Wheel >>: >>:I am unsure whether a FF wheel would be a good idea, as I don't know

whether

Quoted text (19 lines)

>>:you get any self centering on a non FF game such as GPL. >Yes, you do. You have several (motorized) resistance settings and all >have RTC force. You can also turn off resistance by simply hitting the >"Force" button, but your RTC goes also. >>: >>:I have heard that the Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel is good. Another >>:alternative is the Saitek R4, either with or without FF. >I have 2 MS Wheels and know nothing of Saitek, except their flight >controllers, which I have a low opinion of... (of course, I don't >think much of MS flight controls either!) >>: >>:Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. >I am happy with my MS Wheels. >>:Thanks >>: >>:Paul Harrington >>:

Quoted text (37 lines)

> As far as I remember the Saitek is based on teh same FF mechanisms as the MS > wheel.... > >On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0000, "Paul Harrington" > >>:I am thinking of buying a new wheel and pedals to use mainly for GPL. > This > >>:is to replace a digital edge F1 sim wheel. My requirements are : > >>: > >>:- Digital control, not potentiometers (which drift and get dirty). > >MS FF Wheel > >>:- separate axes for brake and accelerator. > >MS FF Wheel > >>:- Good pedal feel. > >MS FF Wheel > >>:- Force feedback would be nice (I know GPL doesn't support it). > >MS FF Wheel > >>:- Robust > >If by Robust you mean well built, then MS FF Wheel > >>: > >>:I am unsure whether a FF wheel would be a good idea, as I don't know > whether > >>:you get any self centering on a non FF game such as GPL. > >Yes, you do. You have several (motorized) resistance settings and all > >have RTC force. You can also turn off resistance by simply hitting the > >"Force" button, but your RTC goes also. > >>: > >>:I have heard that the Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel is good. Another > >>:alternative is the Saitek R4, either with or without FF. > >I have 2 MS Wheels and know nothing of Saitek, except their flight > >controllers, which I have a low opinion of... (of course, I don't > >think much of MS flight controls either!) > >>: > >>:Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Now if only MS would get off their a** and produce a USB version of their wheel - I'd buy one in an instant. The Logitech would be fine if A) the pedals didn't suck, and B) it used optical sensors instead of pots. --John Bradley

The pedals on the R4(brake in particular) are too short of a stroke and make GPL difficult. Basically, they suck!! >As far as I remember the Saitek is based on teh same FF mechanisms as the MS

Quoted text (43 lines)

>wheel.... >>On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0000, "Paul Harrington" >>>:I am thinking of buying a new wheel and pedals to use mainly for GPL. >This >>>:is to replace a digital edge F1 sim wheel. My requirements are : >>>: >>>:- Digital control, not potentiometers (which drift and get dirty). >>MS FF Wheel >>>:- separate axes for brake and accelerator. >>MS FF Wheel >>>:- Good pedal feel. >>MS FF Wheel >>>:- Force feedback would be nice (I know GPL doesn't support it). >>MS FF Wheel >>>:- Robust >>If by Robust you mean well built, then MS FF Wheel >>>: >>>:I am unsure whether a FF wheel would be a good idea, as I don't know >whether >>>:you get any self centering on a non FF game such as GPL. >>Yes, you do. You have several (motorized) resistance settings and all >>have RTC force. You can also turn off resistance by simply hitting the >>"Force" button, but your RTC goes also. >>>: >>>:I have heard that the Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel is good. Another >>>:alternative is the Saitek R4, either with or without FF. >>I have 2 MS Wheels and know nothing of Saitek, except their flight >>controllers, which I have a low opinion of... (of course, I don't >>think much of MS flight controls either!) >>>: >>>:Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. >>I am happy with my MS Wheels. >>>:Thanks >>>: >>>:Paul Harrington >>>:

Thanks for all the advice - It looks like the Microsoft Wheel may be the best. I now have 2 more questions though : - Does the Microsoft wheel support separate pedal axes? - Why is a USB wheel better? Thanks Paul Harrington

Yes, using a profile. You'll find the "Separate" option on the Settings page of the Profile Editor.

Check this out, if you want a wheel that will out last your sim career<G> http://www.mindspring.com/~srcwheel/ Dave Trager Team XTREME 1998 NROS Pro Division Finalist

That's a dead link ( http://www.mindspring.com/~srcwheel/ ) for me--it was dead last time it was posted here as well . . .

On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:35:53 -0000, "Paul Harrington"

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Thanks for all the advice - It looks like the Microsoft Wheel may be the >best. I now have 2 more questions though : >- Does the Microsoft wheel support separate pedal axes? >- Why is a USB wheel better? >Thanks >Paul Harrington

A USB wheel *should* mean that your system can read the controller inputs more accurately and quickly. Apparently it can remove GPL Parkinsons - the effect where the driver's arms shake and twitch constantly. But it also seems some soundcards/gameports can do the same - though everyone seems to have different experiences with this. The Parkinson's is impossible to fix on my system: a Sonic Impact sound card and Interact V3 wheel. A USB wheel would take the soundcard out of the equation, and should give more accurate inputs with less of a CPU drain. Or so I gather from what I've read - but I don't know whether the theory is supported by empirical evidence or not. Cheers Alan

> That's a dead link ( http://www.mindspring.com/~srcwheel/ ) for me--it was > dead last time it was posted here as well . . . The link worked fine for me. Dave Ewing

And me, Cheers, Paul > > That's a dead link ( http://www.mindspring.com/~srcwheel/ ) for me--it was > > dead last time it was posted here as well . . . > The link worked fine for me. > Dave Ewing

I can give one BIG reason. I'm a 50/50 flight sim/ racing sim guy. I have a $300+ Thrustmaster HOTAS setup that has to be completely removed to accommodate the MS FF Wheel. This entails switching around mouse, KB, and gameport cables. Its a REAL pain in the ass to do. If the FF Wheel was USB, I could leave both setups plugged in at all times and simply switch in JStick Control Panel. I picked up a USB MS Precision Pro and it works perfectly alongside the FF Wheel, but it pales in comparison to the TM gear.... G. Patricks

says... Simple enough - I'm already using my MIDI interface for MIDI. True, I'm not actually doing any midi work while I'm playing GPL, but A) it's more cables to swap around, and B) it's another driver mucking with the midi port - might need to be disabled when I want to do midi stuff. Even if it doesn't, I'm not sure I'd trust it to stay out of my way. There's also concerns about how fast you can communicate over that port (it's only designed for MIDI - 33Kbps or so), and it probably introduces a fair amount of processor overhead. Certainly compared to USB. Mostly though, USB is the future, and I refuse to buy a $200 wheel that uses some 'played, old-school' interface! --John Bradley

Same for me...Not only that but when I attach my T2 to the MIDI connector, I get those horrible jittering symptoms when calibrating/using my wheel. I have to swap out my T2 connector and MIDI connector when I'm doing racing/music to get stable performance from my T2. Dennis ***spell halloween correct for my real address***

Quoted text (20 lines)

>says... >> Why do you want a USB version of the MS Wheel? It uses the MIDI MPU401 >> interface rather than the joystick interface (same connector). It works great >> and is ROCK solid with zero drift, jitter, spiking, etc. It doesn't even >> require any calibration. I don't think CPU loading is a problem either. >Simple enough - I'm already using my MIDI interface for MIDI. True, I'm >not actually doing any midi work while I'm playing GPL, but A) it's more >cables to swap around, and B) it's another driver mucking with the midi >port - might need to be disabled when I want to do midi stuff. Even if >it doesn't, I'm not sure I'd trust it to stay out of my way. >There's also concerns about how fast you can communicate over that port >(it's only designed for MIDI - 33Kbps or so), and it probably introduces >a fair amount of processor overhead. Certainly compared to USB. >Mostly though, USB is the future, and I refuse to buy a $200 wheel that >uses some 'played, old-school' interface! >--John Bradley