Hidden Cheat Code GPL?

In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a hidden cheat code in GPL to make your car faster! Too bad if this is so because a lot of Hot Lappers will have to do it all over again! Somehow when these things are discouvered an unfair advantage exists for a while but the playing field gets leveled again in short order. Turn 1 has added another dozen or so links on its pages. The number of GPL related sites continues to grow. In the past 2 weeks Turn 1 has had over 150,000 hits!!! Which leads me to believe GPL is still growing in interest. Regards, Bill Tillman Turn 1 Track & Touring Scenic Tour http://www.teleport.com/~billtill Direct http://www.teleport.com/~billtill/legends.html Direct http://www.teleport.com/~billtill/touring.html ICQ 27042473

Your Kidding right? Cheat code in a Papy sim. -- Kevin Anderson ICQ # 6769389 >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a hidden cheat

I seriously doubt it. This is Papy...not Nintendo.

> >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a > hidden cheat Yeah right!!! I bet you type in your name as arreis (sierra backwards?) and then press the "C" key during driving, and then a cheat menu appears, right? It could include the following: 1 - No gravity mode (Watch those bumps at the Ring?) 2 - The other way mode (Drive the tracks in reverse mode) 3 - Mars mode (Race the special outer space secret track) 4 - Invisible mode (Drive *THROUGH* the other cars) 5 - Alltime great mode (Lets you hold the lap record for every track) 6 - Rocket mode (Blast those other cars outa the way!) 7 - Hyperjump mode (Fast forward to any point on the track) 8 - Micro mode (Race in tiny ickle cars.....from an overhead view) 9 - No clip mode (Drive *ANYWHERE*, through walls, hedges, etc) 10 - God mode (infinite fuel, rockets, invisible, indestructible, etc) Get real, this a serious sim, not a PLAYSTATION game!!!! (Hmmm.........could be fun though?) 8-) *Peter* #:-)

LOL But you forgot two special online cheats. 11. Starship Warp Mode which allows you to post incredibly fast times at any track. 12. Vanish Mode which makes other online cars ahead of you vanish while you drive right through them. Cheers, Paul

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> > >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a > > hidden cheat > Yeah right!!! I bet you type in your name as arreis (sierra > backwards?) and then press the "C" key during driving, and then a > cheat menu appears, right? > It could include the following: > 1 - No gravity mode (Watch those bumps at the Ring?) > 2 - The other way mode (Drive the tracks in reverse mode) > 3 - Mars mode (Race the special outer space secret track) > 4 - Invisible mode (Drive *THROUGH* the other cars) > 5 - Alltime great mode (Lets you hold the lap record for every track) > 6 - Rocket mode (Blast those other cars outa the way!) > 7 - Hyperjump mode (Fast forward to any point on the track) > 8 - Micro mode (Race in tiny ickle cars.....from an overhead view) > 9 - No clip mode (Drive *ANYWHERE*, through walls, hedges, etc) > 10 - God mode (infinite fuel, rockets, invisible, indestructible, etc) > Get real, this a serious sim, not a PLAYSTATION game!!!! > (Hmmm.........could be fun though?) > 8-) > *Peter* #:-)

Bill, could you add me web link at the bottom of this page. It is for LAN racing.

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> In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a hidden cheat > code in GPL to make your car faster! Too bad if this is so because a lot of > Hot Lappers will have to do it all over again! Somehow when these things are > discouvered an unfair advantage exists for a while but the playing field > gets leveled again in short order. > Turn 1 has added another dozen or so links on its pages. The number of GPL > related sites continues to grow. In the past 2 weeks Turn 1 has had over > 150,000 hits!!! Which leads me to believe GPL is still growing in interest. > Regards, Bill Tillman > Turn 1 Track & Touring > Scenic Tour > http://www.teleport.com/~billtill > Direct > http://www.teleport.com/~billtill/legends.html > Direct > http://www.teleport.com/~billtill/touring.html > ICQ 27042473

-- Todd Norbury SLONG GPL www.ozemail.com.au/~norbtech Seeya in the pits. Make sure there's a cold beer when I get back.

I hope for the sake of the future of GPL on-line that these sort of things never eventuate. I also hope the guys that are working on track and car editors for GPL take that into account and if they do manage to alter the power levels and grip levels of the player's car, then they keep it to themselves. ( please don't ruin another on-line sim) You might think i am being a bit harsh, but it will be a sad day for on-line racing with GPL, the day a grip/power editor comes out.. If you have one, keep it to yourselves, we don't want it !! Cheers, Ron > LOL > But you forgot two special online cheats. > 11. Starship Warp Mode which allows you to post incredibly fast times at > any track. > 12. Vanish Mode which makes other online cars ahead of you vanish while

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> you drive right through them. > Cheers, > Paul > > > >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a > > > hidden cheat > > Yeah right!!! I bet you type in your name as arreis (sierra > > backwards?) and then press the "C" key during driving, and then a > > cheat menu appears, right? > > It could include the following: > > 1 - No gravity mode (Watch those bumps at the Ring?) > > 2 - The other way mode (Drive the tracks in reverse mode) > > 3 - Mars mode (Race the special outer space secret track) > > 4 - Invisible mode (Drive *THROUGH* the other cars) > > 5 - Alltime great mode (Lets you hold the lap record for every

track) > > 6 - Rocket mode (Blast those other cars outa the way!) > > 7 - Hyperjump mode (Fast forward to any point on the track) > > 8 - Micro mode (Race in tiny ickle cars.....from an overhead view) > > 9 - No clip mode (Drive *ANYWHERE*, through walls, hedges, etc) > > 10 - God mode (infinite fuel, rockets, invisible, indestructible, etc) > > Get real, this a serious sim, not a PLAYSTATION game!!!! > > (Hmmm.........could be fun though?) > > 8-) > > *Peter* #:-)

Exactly, please keep it to yourself, and please don't race online with it. You'll ruin online racing and leagues. "ZZ" -- Busch Carpentry "Plans?" ---------------- Busch Motorsports "Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward"

I am afraid that if it will be there, it will be public... but these utilities are there also for GP2 and I never have heard of someone that cheated while racing in a legue, because there are also programs that can check if someone uses other settings then allowed ! Greetinx Micha?l 'NRG' Hompus Webmaster The Fast Lane http://www.grandprix2.com/gpl Everything you need for GPL !!!

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> I hope for the sake of the future of GPL on-line that these sort of > things never eventuate. > I also hope the guys that are working on track and car editors for GPL > take that into account and if they do manage to alter the power levels > and grip levels of the player's car, then they keep it to themselves. > ( please don't ruin another on-line sim) > You might think i am being a bit harsh, but it will be a sad day for > on-line racing with GPL, the day a grip/power editor comes out.. > If you have one, keep it to yourselves, we don't want it !!

Absolutely, I agree 100%, keep GPL as it is (apart from improving the ipx/tcp aspect of GPL to improve connections while on-line ***....) 8-) Peter

I know exactly how to put your car in most of these "modes". Simply race online! Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

>I am afraid that if it will be there, it will be public... >but these utilities are there also for GP2 and I never >have heard of someone that cheated while racing >in a legue, because there are also programs that >can check if someone uses other settings then allowed ! Cheating in GP2 was rampant in LFRS, the biggest offline racing league of them all. What was even sadder was that it was not even considered cheating to intentionally overload your CPU with graphics options so that your occupancy was 400% letting you drive in super slow motion. Hard to make a mistake doing that. All the super fast guys, at least the losers who took this game way too seriously, would always cry that if they didn't do it they couldn't be competitive. Really pathetic. Dave Ewing

Don't forget to have the guy at the end of the straight suddenly be right in front of you, then the next instant be at the end of the straight again. Or my personal favorite, to leave skid marks heading straight into space! Eric Franzen

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>LOL >But you forgot two special online cheats. >11. Starship Warp Mode which allows you to post incredibly fast times at >any track. >12. Vanish Mode which makes other online cars ahead of you vanish while >you drive right through them. >Cheers, >Paul >> > >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a >> > hidden cheat >> Yeah right!!! I bet you type in your name as arreis (sierra >> backwards?) and then press the "C" key during driving, and then a >> cheat menu appears, right? >> It could include the following: >> 1 - No gravity mode (Watch those bumps at the Ring?) >> 2 - The other way mode (Drive the tracks in reverse mode) >> 3 - Mars mode (Race the special outer space secret track) >> 4 - Invisible mode (Drive *THROUGH* the other cars) >> 5 - Alltime great mode (Lets you hold the lap record for every track) >> 6 - Rocket mode (Blast those other cars outa the way!) >> 7 - Hyperjump mode (Fast forward to any point on the track) >> 8 - Micro mode (Race in tiny ickle cars.....from an overhead view) >> 9 - No clip mode (Drive *ANYWHERE*, through walls, hedges, etc) >> 10 - God mode (infinite fuel, rockets, invisible, indestructible, etc) >> Get real, this a serious sim, not a PLAYSTATION game!!!! >> (Hmmm.........could be fun though?) >> 8-) >> *Peter* #:-)

I like the wiggly ones too :-) Cheers, Paul

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> Don't forget to have the guy at the end of the straight suddenly be right in > front of you, then the next instant be at the end of the straight again. Or > my personal favorite, to leave skid marks heading straight into space! > Eric Franzen > >LOL > >But you forgot two special online cheats. > >11. Starship Warp Mode which allows you to post incredibly fast times at > >any track. > >12. Vanish Mode which makes other online cars ahead of you vanish while > >you drive right through them. > >Cheers, > >Paul > >> > >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a > >> > hidden cheat > >> Yeah right!!! I bet you type in your name as arreis (sierra > >> backwards?) and then press the "C" key during driving, and then a > >> cheat menu appears, right? > >> It could include the following: > >> 1 - No gravity mode (Watch those bumps at the Ring?) > >> 2 - The other way mode (Drive the tracks in reverse mode) > >> 3 - Mars mode (Race the special outer space secret track) > >> 4 - Invisible mode (Drive *THROUGH* the other cars) > >> 5 - Alltime great mode (Lets you hold the lap record for every track) > >> 6 - Rocket mode (Blast those other cars outa the way!) > >> 7 - Hyperjump mode (Fast forward to any point on the track) > >> 8 - Micro mode (Race in tiny ickle cars.....from an overhead view) > >> 9 - No clip mode (Drive *ANYWHERE*, through walls, hedges, etc) > >> 10 - God mode (infinite fuel, rockets, invisible, indestructible, etc) > >> Get real, this a serious sim, not a PLAYSTATION game!!!! > >> (Hmmm.........could be fun though?) > >> 8-) > >> *Peter* #:-)

> I also hope the guys that are working on track and car editors for GPL > take that into account and if they do manage to alter the power levels > and grip levels of the player's car, then they keep it to themselves. If you don't have the capability to alter grip/power then that mean that you can't model other periods/classes of racing accurately. I at least would quite like to be able to model, for instance, sports cars of the GPL period, and if (as the behaviousr of the different cars in GPL suggests) you could model different dimensions and weight distributions too then I'd quite like to have a go at racing front engined GP cars, and/or 50's/60's touring cars assuming the physics model doesn't breakdown when you attempt to change the behaviour too far. Sadly I suspect that front wheel drive isn't catered for, so I'll never be able to race a Mini Cooper against Jaguar MkIIs, Lotus Cortinas, and Ford Galaxies, but the other stuff might be practical, and I don't see any reason why I shouldn't have the opportunity to race a virtual Aston DBR3 against a virtual Jaguar D-Type on-line... -- Jonathon "JayGee" Green "Death to all fanatics!"

Death penalty for online cheating? Papy can put some verification code into their programs. I hope GPL already has it. -- _____ /_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d I XT /~~~~ I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro \____/\__I_I http://matthead.home.pages.de/

Gooday Ron. Long time no chat :) I think that as sim racing online grows that the likes of Papy will seek legal ways to supress anyone from making such utilities available. I think that legally it could be viewed as some type of industrial sabotage. If you think about it, the future of sim racing as a serious sport depends on such a situation coming to be. I look forward to watching how this developes over the years. My prediction is that the Papys of the world, and the law, will have no choice but to act.

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> I hope for the sake of the future of GPL on-line that these sort of > things never eventuate. > I also hope the guys that are working on track and car editors for GPL > take that into account and if they do manage to alter the power levels > and grip levels of the player's car, then they keep it to themselves. > ( please don't ruin another on-line sim) > You might think i am being a bit harsh, but it will be a sad day for > on-line racing with GPL, the day a grip/power editor comes out.. > If you have one, keep it to yourselves, we don't want it !! > Cheers, > Ron > > LOL > > But you forgot two special online cheats. > > 11. Starship Warp Mode which allows you to post incredibly fast times > at > > any track. > > 12. Vanish Mode which makes other online cars ahead of you vanish > while > > you drive right through them. > > Cheers, > > Paul > > > > >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a > > > > hidden cheat > > > Yeah right!!! I bet you type in your name as arreis (sierra > > > backwards?) and then press the "C" key during driving, and then a > > > cheat menu appears, right? > > > It could include the following: > > > 1 - No gravity mode (Watch those bumps at the Ring?) > > > 2 - The other way mode (Drive the tracks in reverse mode) > > > 3 - Mars mode (Race the special outer space secret track) > > > 4 - Invisible mode (Drive *THROUGH* the other cars) > > > 5 - Alltime great mode (Lets you hold the lap record for every > track) > > > 6 - Rocket mode (Blast those other cars outa the way!) > > > 7 - Hyperjump mode (Fast forward to any point on the track) > > > 8 - Micro mode (Race in tiny ickle cars.....from an overhead view) > > > 9 - No clip mode (Drive *ANYWHERE*, through walls, hedges, etc) > > > 10 - God mode (infinite fuel, rockets, invisible, indestructible, > etc) > > > Get real, this a serious sim, not a PLAYSTATION game!!!! > > > (Hmmm.........could be fun though?) > > > 8-) > > > *Peter* #:-)

-- Byron Forbes Captain of Team Lightning Bolt http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS and http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

Goodhaye Byron, as you said, long time no see. Hope you have been keeping well. Regards the posting below, i tend to agree with you. Sim racing is becoming more like an accepted sport, rather than a pre-puberty past-time for school kids. As i said, i can live with the improvements and graphical changes that are made to any sim, but performance editors and grip editors can stay where they belong, in the full control of the developers of the sim in question. Any one that releases these items to the general public, without a definitive way of detecting their use in on-line play needs***, IMO. :-( I'll supply the gallows... <G> Cheers, Ron > Gooday Ron. Long time no chat :) > I think that as sim racing online grows that the likes of Papy will seek legal ways to > supress anyone from making such utilities available. I think that legally it could be > viewed as some type of industrial sabotage. If you think about it, the future of sim > racing as a serious sport depends on such a situation coming to be. I look forward to > watching how this developes over the years. My prediction is that the Papys of the world,

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> and the law, will have no choice but to act. > > I hope for the sake of the future of GPL on-line that these sort of > > things never eventuate. > > I also hope the guys that are working on track and car editors for

GPL > > take that into account and if they do manage to alter the power levels > > and grip levels of the player's car, then they keep it to themselves. > > ( please don't ruin another on-line sim) > > You might think i am being a bit harsh, but it will be a sad day for

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> > on-line racing with GPL, the day a grip/power editor comes out.. > > If you have one, keep it to yourselves, we don't want it !! > > Cheers, > > Ron > -- > Byron Forbes > Captain of Team Lightning Bolt > http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS > and > [link lost in import: /~godsoe/bolt/home.htm]

> > I think that as sim racing online grows that the likes of Papy will seek legal ways to > >supress anyone from making such utilities available. I think that legally it could be > >viewed as some type of industrial sabotage. But to what extent does/did the popularity of, say, F1GP depend on the availability of car and track editors? And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a hypothetical... Depends what it's going to do. Check against a set of definable parameters (say the sim analogues of power, weight, tyre construction and size etc) and ring a bell if a participants car doesn't conform? That's good. Prevent editing or creating new cars (or classes of cars) completely? That's bad... -- Jonathon "JayGee" Green "Death to all fanatics!"

On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:18:20 +0000, Jonathon Green

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>> Papy can put some verification code into their programs. I hope GPL >> already has it. >Depends what it's going to do. >Check against a set of definable parameters (say the sim analogues of >power, weight, tyre construction and size etc) and ring a bell if a >participants car doesn't conform? >That's good. >Prevent editing or creating new cars (or classes of cars) completely? >That's bad...

A comparison with the host settings (which could be altered) would be best. Tweaks like the modern starting grids are already widely in use. -- _____ /_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d I XT /~~~~ I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro \____/\__I_I http://matthead.home.pages.de/

F1GP was simply not used for online racing. Online racing on the international stage has just begun - well, being pioneered more like it. What has been ok in the past may not necessarily be ok in the future. I'd say that in the not too distant future that if a sim cannot be raced online, and properly at that, then it won't get a 2nd look by most and will hopefully be trashed by the reviewers. So anything that threatens the appeal in the online racing dept, like rampant cheating, would kill a sim title. Sim companies would be left with no choice but to issue warnings on the box and on their sites, that any utilities released that compromise the "fairness for all" factor of a sim can and will be prosecuted.

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> But to what extent does/did the popularity of, say, F1GP depend on the > availability of car and track editors? > And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community > compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial > benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third > party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it > makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track > an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such > products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather > than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a > hypothetical...

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> But to what extent does/did the popularity of, say, F1GP depend on the > availability of car and track editors? > And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community > compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial > benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third > party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it > makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track > an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such > products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather > than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a > hypothetical...

I'm sure your just expressing a hypothetical view in telling me the only reason that there are not track packs for games is becuase I choose to produced editors for people to edit them themselves, I think not the economical benefit is there as I have been approach by Publishers to produce track packs for commercial sale so there obviously is a demand. the truth is that once a game is finished the companies must move onto the next game to stay ahead of the rest. As for suppressing editor writers like myself its wise to remember that it is not me that makes the cheat but the cheater using the tools. And I do nothing that a person with a little knowledge couldn't do with a hex editor an alot of experimentation. At the end of the day the online community which is growing is not the only community I myself have never raced on line or in a offline season and we underestimate the shear numbers of people playing these sims who never go online. The tools I provide are aimed at helping ALL people to enjoy the sims not to allow them to cheat. A cheater is a cheater now matter what tools he/she has. It would be a sorry day when a publisher would "SUPRESS" the third party utility writers and a very interesting legal one. That would have major implications on other areas of computing. My 2p worth! Paul Hoad

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> > And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community > > compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial > > benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third > > party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it > > makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track > > an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such > > products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather > > than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a > > hypothetical... > I'm sure your just expressing a hypothetical view in telling me the > only reason that there are not track packs for games is becuase I choose > to produced editors for people to edit them themselves, I think not the > economical benefit is there as I have been approach by Publishers to > produce track packs for commercial sale so there obviously is a demand.

That's not what I'm attempting to suggest at all! Actually the view I was attempting (clearly unsucessfully, but then grammar never was one of my strong points...) to convey was almost the exact opposite of the interpretation you've made, ie that publishers see _no_ great commercial benefit in producing add ons for existing games, preferring instead (as you say) to dedicate their resources to promoting either completely new products or repackaged versions of an existing product with a few goodies thrown in as a "mid life kicker" for a product which is past the first flush of youth (NASCAR 1999?), and that editors pose _no_ significant threat to their revenue stream... Since you've been approached to produce track packs for commercial distribution that clearly acsts some doubt on my theory, but then since (compared with the considerable number of commercially marketed add on packs there are for, say, "Doom", or "MS Flight Sim" on the shelves of my local PC world) such products don't seem to be marketed terribly aggressively, you have to wonder just how large this market really is. Incidentally, a friend of mine who races motorcycles on the continent was left (literally) open mouthed by the fidelity of Zandvoort and the Nurburgring in "Grand Prix Legends" when I showed it to him, and gave the impression that he would sell his soul to get his hands on a similarly accurate rendition (apparently Sega's Manx Superbike doesn't hack it...) of the IoM TT circuit before this years Manx Grand Prix. I don't suppose this represents a commercially significant market for a project on this scale though... :-) -- Jonathon "JayGee" Green "Death to all fanatics!"

> Since you've been approached to produce track packs for commercial > distribution that clearly acsts some doubt on my theory, but then since > (compared with the considerable number of commercially marketed add on > packs there are for, say, "Doom", or "MS Flight Sim" on the shelves of > my local PC world) such products don't seem to be marketed terribly > aggressively, you have to wonder just how large this market really is. I'd be really curious to see some market research on the profitability of Track Packs for sims. It seems like the cost to produce them is relatively low (at least in comparison to creating full blown new products) and the potential for profit is fairly high. The closest thing I can think of is Access Software's Links golf game. In addition to upgrading the features in a new version of the game that is released about once a year, they also produce quite a few course packs, with from one to four new golf courses per pack. I believe these are consistent sellers. This strategy would seem like a natural fit for the sim racing genre. Wouldn't it be great to have periodic releases of packs for GPL based on different seasons? GPL almost appears to be designed with this in mind. Look at the layout of the file structure with all the season, track, and AI ini files. The main stumbling block is probably licensing. Given that Jackie Stewart doesn't appear in the game and the problems in securing the Monaco track and the participation of Ferrari, this appears to be a significant issue. For modern sims like Ubisoft's F1RS series and Microprose/Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix/World Circuits series, it is even more difficult, thanks to Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA's outrageous charges for licensing a particular year. I know that I am not alone in saying that I would probably buy every track/season pack for GPL that Papyrus would release. Dave Ewing

On Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:59:37 -0700, David Ewing >I'd be really curious to see some market research on the profitability >of Track Packs for sims. It seems like the cost to produce them is >relatively low (at least in comparison to creating full blown new >products) and the potential for profit is fairly high. I remember a few years back, in this very forum, one of Papyrus' employees talking about how the track packs were really *not* very profitable. I don't remember the details, but perhaps licensing fees or the time and money to do the research and artwork to their standards were limiting factors (as well as writing AI code for the cars to run them properly). And note that they've since gone to the "enhanced product" (NR99) marketing model versus add-ons (ICR1 7tracks/IMS+PaintKit, N1 tracks, N2 BGN). Me too. :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

>I know that I am not alone in saying that I would probably buy every >track/season pack for GPL that Papyrus would release. Yep! I join the club. If Sierra/Papyrus will publish _anything_ for GPL, I'll buy it! This sim has been so much above anything I've seen in the racing car simulation that I've already got a kind of thrust on them! Actually, it is hard for me to see, what is lacking in the sim; there are many tracks that I cannot drive well, there are many cars I haven't tried hard,... well, the original GPL is very, very demanding and complete as such... And - contradictionally? - that is the reason I'll definitely buy anything made by the original makers of GPL to add up to the possibilieties... Again: Congratulations to the staff who made GPL! Arto

[snip] It's unfortunate; they do not. I was reading this string earlier tonight and decided let's give it a look-see, I did a good old "pave the world" cheat to test online. I upped the file to the site below, it's just starting out so it's bare as a bone, thing is I password protected it so if someone downloads it they need to crack the password to open it. It was like a normal race, only I could go on the grass and keep the power down. This is just to let everyone aware that anyone who's handy with hex, programming (I was gonna post some primitve editing programs for GPL that I recoded from their former ICR2 days, but I may hold back a bit for a GPL patch so people don't cheat). http://ontrack.8m.com -- Jon Van Ginneken "...come on man...that's not ordinary, that's extrodinary." --"Iron" Mike Tyson