GPL: Wheels and such

Hi folks, One thing I noticed in this newsgroup over the last few months (since GPL came out) was a rapid increase in the number of posts about racing wheels. Evidently, Papyrus has swelled the coffers of a number of wheel manufacturers . . . I use a (itty bitty) CH Mach 1joystick right now, and I don't think there could be many better options for racing with a stick. It's small, precise, and I don't want to wrestle Godzilla's*** just to steer my car. But I fear the Mach 1 forces me to try and do too much with one input (steer, throttle, brake--all simultaneously in the same control radius . . .) My car control . . .um . . . isn't. But a wheel, that sounds nice. So I'm considering adding a wheel to my own PC, and so I'd like to ask a rather basic question: "What did adding a wheel do for your GPL gameplay?" best, David

It makes it a lot more enjoyable. My TM2 wheel was down for two weeksand I used a joystick. Don't expect to get faster lap times right away. Don Jacobs

For me pedals made the biggest control improvement. The wheel, though nice, is more for immersion than effect. It just feels "right". Andrew McP

>For me pedals made the biggest control improvement. The wheel, though >nice, is more for immersion than effect. It just feels "right". Split axis pedals have made a big difference for me. I noticed that immediately when I got my new Thrustmaster Super Sport for Christmas (though I'm still getting used to split pedal technique). I'm getting a HUGE difference with paddle shifting on the SS. I had been using a T2 with its sidemounted gearshift. Now (with two hands on the wheel at all times), I steer with more precision, shift with more precision, and the problems I had been having with my left wrist from steering one-handed so much have disappeared. Kurt

> "What did adding a wheel do for your GPL gameplay?" Well I was doing very well with a Gravis analogue pro joystick. When I got my MSFF wheel it took a lot of time to adjust and was pretty frustrating. After weeks of practice with the wheel I am now beating all my joystick fast laps, and it is so accurate! When I used a joystick I sometimes worried going into difficult corners, as the slightest wrong movement of the stick could cause a crash. Now I'm very comfortable and can use all it's benefits to balance the car better (left foot braking, variable resistance settings) plus it never goes out of calibration. Ian

Well, I was new to GPL, 2-3 wks when i bought the wheel, But it immediately took 3 seconds or so off my times at Monza, just from the extra control I had, compared to my joystick with on/off throttle and brake and twitchy steering inputs.Thriller 3D was next major factor, shaving time just from seeing where I was going before I got there...went from 10-12 fps to 30-36 allthe time. >> "What did adding a wheel do for your GPL gameplay?" >Well I was doing very well with a Gravis analogue pro joystick. When I got my >MSFF wheel it took a lot of time to adjust and was pretty frustrating. After >weeks of practice with the wheel I am now beating all my joystick fast laps, >and it is so accurate! When I used a joystick I sometimes worried going into >difficult corners, as the slightest wrong movement of the stick could cause a >crash. Now I'm very comfortable and can use all it's benefits to balance the >car better (left foot braking, variable resistance settings) plus it never goes >out of calibration. >Ian

>"What did adding a wheel do for your GPL gameplay?" It made me feel like I was driving a car and not playing a game. I find it hard to "be one with the car" when using a joystick or keyboard. Randy Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

SOme of the fastest drivers i know use a joystick, no pedals even, but i find the whole thing more immersive and enjoyable with the wheel. I've had an ECCI wheel for four years and i wouldn't swap for anything 'cept another ecci. Brian Bushe says...

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>Well, I was new to GPL, 2-3 wks when i bought the wheel, But it immediately >took 3 seconds or so off my times at Monza, just from the extra control I >had, compared to my joystick with on/off throttle and brake and twitchy >steering inputs.Thriller 3D was next major factor, shaving time just from >seeing where I was going before I got there...went from 10-12 fps to 30-36 >allthe time. >>> "What did adding a wheel do for your GPL gameplay?" >>Well I was doing very well with a Gravis analogue pro joystick. When I got >my >>MSFF wheel it took a lot of time to adjust and was pretty frustrating. >After >>weeks of practice with the wheel I am now beating all my joystick fast >laps, >>and it is so accurate! When I used a joystick I sometimes worried going >into >>difficult corners, as the slightest wrong movement of the stick could cause >a >>crash. Now I'm very comfortable and can use all it's benefits to balance >the >>car better (left foot braking, variable resistance settings) plus it never >goes >>out of calibration. >>Ian

I have to agree with you Brian. For me, it's about being able to fake driving a race car as accurately as possible while sitting in my living room. I have a friend who is SO QUICK at GP2 using this tiny little beat up Logitec joystick, but that's not the point of what I'm trying to accomplish. A while back, before the FIA band electronic driver aids, I got into a discussion with some other racing friends and we thought that if you really wanted to make the cars go faster, improve packaging, etc. etc.. that they should do away with wheels and peddles in a GP car entirely. Give the "driver" a pair of FF joysticks mounted at about the same level as his thighs (this would lower the frontal area, making for a slicker shape). Let him use triggers and other finger controls for throttle, gear changes etc. Everything else could be done by servo control; no gears, linkages or anything of the sort. A true fly-by-wire system, like in the GD F-16. BTW, the Force Feedback in the joysticks would be to impart synthetic feedback (via stick shaker etc., like in a modern airliner) as far as to what the front wheels would be doing. Of course, this isn't really driving, is it? Might be fun to try ... but like I said, I agree with you: this is about making me feel like I am IN a race car. Tony >SOme of the fastest drivers i know use a joystick, no pedals even, but i find >the whole thing more immersive and enjoyable with the wheel. I've had an ECCI

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>wheel for four years and i wouldn't swap for anything 'cept another ecci. >Brian Bushe >says... >>Well, I was new to GPL, 2-3 wks when i bought the wheel, But it

immediately

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>>took 3 seconds or so off my times at Monza, just from the extra control I >>had, compared to my joystick with on/off throttle and brake and twitchy >>steering inputs.Thriller 3D was next major factor, shaving time just from >>seeing where I was going before I got there...went from 10-12 fps to 30-36 >>allthe time. >>>> "What did adding a wheel do for your GPL gameplay?" >>>Well I was doing very well with a Gravis analogue pro joystick. When I

got

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>>my >>>MSFF wheel it took a lot of time to adjust and was pretty frustrating. >>After >>>weeks of practice with the wheel I am now beating all my joystick fast >>laps, >>>and it is so accurate! When I used a joystick I sometimes worried going >>into >>>difficult corners, as the slightest wrong movement of the stick could

cause >>a >>>crash. Now I'm very comfortable and can use all it's benefits to balance >>the >>>car better (left foot braking, variable resistance settings) plus it never >>goes >>>out of calibration. >>>Ian

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> I have to agree with you Brian. > For me, it's about being able to fake driving a race car as accurately as > possible while sitting in my living room. I have a friend who is SO QUICK at > GP2 using this tiny little beat up Logitec joystick, but that's not the > point of what I'm trying to accomplish. > A while back, before the FIA band electronic driver aids, I got into a > discussion with some other racing friends and we thought that if you really > wanted to make the cars go faster, improve packaging, etc. etc.. that they > should do away with wheels and peddles in a GP car entirely. Give the > "driver" a pair of FF joysticks mounted at about the same level as his > thighs (this would lower the frontal area, making for a slicker shape). Let > him use triggers and other finger controls for throttle, gear changes etc. > Everything else could be done by servo control; no gears, linkages or > anything of the sort. A true fly-by-wire system, like in the GD F-16. BTW, > the Force Feedback in the joysticks would be to impart synthetic feedback > (via stick shaker etc., like in a modern airliner) as far as to what the > front wheels would be doing. > Of course, this isn't really driving, is it?

Well, if it isn't driving, then what is it? Trips