GPL - Gamecard solution ?

Hi, After having another online GPL race ruined by the "twitchy steering" syndrome I'm going to get a gamecard to see if it helps. I can find 3 for sale in the UK. The Thrustmaster ACM (30 pounds), the CH Gamecard (30 pounds) and the PDPI L4 Digital Gameport (80 pounds). As I know naff all about any of these I'm after some advice. I've narrowed it down to the two cheaper cards because I have read posts about the PDPI having problems with the Microsoft FF wheel (next on my shopping list). So which is better, Trustmaster ACM or the CH Gamecard ? TIA, Andy.

If you're going to buy a MS wheel, you may find this resolves the twitchy steering without incurring the additional expense of a gamecard too. I'm dubious about the worth of these gamecards - whilst people advise that it reduces CPU load by 30-40%, this doesn't then seem to result in a corresponding improvement in frame-rate - in fact the improvement seems to be negligible. At least get the wheel first and then decide whether you need a gamecard.

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>If you're going to buy a MS wheel, you may find this resolves the twitchy >steering without incurring the additional expense of a gamecard too. >I'm dubious about the worth of these gamecards - whilst people advise that >it reduces CPU load by 30-40%, this doesn't then seem to result in a >corresponding improvement in frame-rate - in fact the improvement seems to >be negligible. >At least get the wheel first and then decide whether you need a gamecard.

Also, you won't get any force-feedback (refering to FF games, obviously) with a game card & MS wheel, since the MS wheel uses the MIDI output of the gameport to supply FF effects. I had a TM T2 with major jitters on a SB64. With the MS wheel there are no jitters. It works GREAT in GPL. Randy

On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:22:37 -0000, "Andrew Middleton"

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>Hi, >After having another online GPL race ruined by the "twitchy steering" >syndrome I'm going to get a gamecard to see if it helps. >I can find 3 for sale in the UK. The Thrustmaster ACM (30 pounds), the CH >Gamecard (30 pounds) and the PDPI L4 Digital Gameport (80 pounds). >As I know naff all about any of these I'm after some advice. I've narrowed >it down to the two cheaper cards because I have read posts about the PDPI >having problems with the Microsoft FF wheel (next on my shopping list). >So which is better, Trustmaster ACM or the CH Gamecard ? >TIA, >Andy.

Whoa! AM slow down before you do anything! I know absolutely nothing about the MS FF Wheel but I struggled for a long time with the "twitchy steering" problem. After reading how to clean pots about thirty times , I figured out that the problem was the port and not the pots. At the time I was using the CH Game card that you mentioned. It never really seemed to make any difference anyway (IMHO , I sure it's a fine card) so I un installed it and used the game port on my AWE64 (isa). Still , in GPL anyway, twitching steering and that's no fun doing 190 or so down Masta. So then I removed the AWE64 and installed a Turtle Beach Daytona PCI sound card that I had lying around (I never really like it all that much). So I fire up GPL and to my surprise: problem solved! smooth turning from lock to lock and as a bonus I got a few FPS more (particularly at starts) and was able to turn a few more details on. So my unscientific conclusion is to avoid using any game port that is on the ISA bus. I don't know why. I'm not a bench marking nerd who has to quantify every 1/2 fps that I squeeze out. I do know that the analog input in GPL in rock solid now and that I'm getting enough of a frame rate increase to enjoy GPL just a little more just by moving my game port to the PCI bus. I must mention that from reading other post on the subject ,it seems to make the biggest difference on low horsepower machines. My rig is a P166 MMX o/c to 225 on a 1 meg cache MoBo , 64 meg ram , Stealth II. Good luck. I hope this helps because I've been there and it's a really irritating problem.

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> Whoa! AM slow down before you do anything! I know absolutely nothing >about the MS FF Wheel but I struggled for a long time with the >"twitchy steering" problem. After reading how to clean pots about >thirty times , I figured out that the problem was the port and not the >pots. At the time I was using the CH Game card that you mentioned. It >never really seemed to make any difference anyway (IMHO , I sure it's >a fine card) so I un installed it and used the game port on my AWE64 >(isa). Still , in GPL anyway, twitching steering and that's no fun >doing 190 or so down Masta. So then I removed the AWE64 and installed >a Turtle Beach Daytona PCI sound card that I had lying around (I never >really like it all that much). So I fire up GPL and to my surprise: >problem solved!

I think it is the ISA sound card that causes the problem. It locks the whole bus during the period that the sound is transmitted to it - so I expect the joystick routines are finding variations in timing and simulating the spiky movement! I have been told the PCI sound does not do this (I have a PCI sound chip on the motherboard chosen for this specific reason). Don't exactly know why - some characteristic of the PCI bus mastering I believe. Alan http://www.chandler.u-net.com

I think it is the ISA sound card that causes the problem. It locks the whole bus during the period that the sound is transmitted to it - so I expect the joystick routines are finding variations in timing and simulating the spiky movement! I have been told the PCI sound does not do this (I have a PCI sound chip on the motherboard chosen for this specific reason). Don't exactly know why - some characteristic of the PCI bus mastering I believe. Alan http://www.chandler.u-net.com nice theory Alan but I forgot to mention that I have a PCI soundcard ;-) As well as the twitchy steering it is also giving poor sound quality in GPL although it's ok in other games (not that I bother with them anymore !) Should have mentioned in original post...... PII 350 Mhz 64 Mb 12 Mb Monster Voodoo II Win 98 Ensoniq PCI 64v Thanks for the replies - maybe I should ignore the gamecard and just go straight to the wheel as suggested. I'm off to try and find out if you can plug the MS FF wheel into the USB port. Andy.

Strange... I have a SB AWE64 ISA and a Thrustmaster T1 wheel.. I experience absolutely none of the twitchiness you guys are getting... Here's my system: PII 350 ASUS P2B IBM Deskstar 8.4 Matrox Millenium G200 8MB SDRAM SB AWE64 ISA Kirk Lane

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> Whoa! AM slow down before you do anything! I know absolutely nothing >about the MS FF Wheel but I struggled for a long time with the >"twitchy steering" problem. After reading how to clean pots about >thirty times , I figured out that the problem was the port and not the >pots. At the time I was using the CH Game card that you mentioned. It >never really seemed to make any difference anyway (IMHO , I sure it's >a fine card) so I un installed it and used the game port on my AWE64 >(isa). Still , in GPL anyway, twitching steering and that's no fun >doing 190 or so down Masta. So then I removed the AWE64 and installed >a Turtle Beach Daytona PCI sound card that I had lying around (I never >really like it all that much). So I fire up GPL and to my surprise: >problem solved!

I think it is the ISA sound card that causes the problem. It locks the whole bus during the period that the sound is transmitted to it - so I expect the joystick routines are finding variations in timing and simulating the spiky movement! I have been told the PCI sound does not do this (I have a PCI sound chip on the motherboard chosen for this specific reason). Don't exactly know why - some characteristic of the PCI bus mastering I believe. Alan http://www.chandler.u-net.com

Umm, sorry, not so simple. I have a Sonic Impact PCI card, and it means I can now have all 16 sounds with out any frame rate drop, whereas with my SB16 it would drop by 3-4 fps with all sounds turned on. But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present skill level. It just means I have to turn off the graphics for the hands (and, unfortunately, that means the wheel as well ). I find once I do that, I don't even notice the twitching. All the same, I'm saving up for a better wheel - and, from what I've read, a USB-connected wheel seems the best bet for twitchlessness. Cheers Alan

>It just means I have to turn off the graphics for the hands (and, >unfortunately, that means the wheel as well ). I find once I do that, >I don't even notice the twitching. The problem with twitching hands isn't just visual. The hands are a good indicator of what your controller is doing. So if it's twitching, you're getting a lot of noise in your input that makes your driving considerably less precise. For the record, my hands twitch quite a bit with a Thrustmaster T2 connected to a Turtle Beach Montego PCI card via Direct Input. I have sent away to TM for a new pot and bungee cord (which has become too slack as well). Dave Ewing

For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet. % But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The % DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to % speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not % enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present % skill level. % It just means I have to turn off the graphics for the hands (and, % unfortunately, that means the wheel as well ). I find once I do that, % I don't even notice the twitching. % All the same, I'm saving up for a better wheel - and, from what I've % read, a USB-connected wheel seems the best bet for twitchlessness. % Cheers % Alan -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:23:44 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

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>For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in >the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet. >% But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The >% DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to >% speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not >% enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present >% skill level.

I just added a PDPI L4 card to my PII 400 w/ Monster II. Using great wheel, TSW Sport. Arms still have advanced "Parkinson's" and the cars seem even more twitchy. Poll w/ interupts unchecked, direct input. Calibration looks steady but cars sometimes leap at the scenery. Don't think it's dirty pot, just started on gameport installation. Maybe it's a bug in the game itself. Using a Viewsonic PT775, high refresh rates. Prozak, anyone? Sam

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>On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:23:44 GMT, "Michael E. Carver" >>For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in >>the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet. >>% But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The >>% DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to >>% speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not >>% enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present >>% skill level. >I just added a PDPI L4 card to my PII 400 w/ Monster II. Using great >wheel, TSW Sport. Arms still have advanced "Parkinson's" and the cars >seem even more twitchy. Poll w/ interupts unchecked, direct input. >Calibration looks steady but cars sometimes leap at the scenery. Don't >think it's dirty pot, just started on gameport installation. Maybe >it's a bug in the game itself. Using a Viewsonic PT775, high refresh >rates. Prozak, anyone? >Sam

I think you are not using the PDPI port driver in Control Panel - Gamecontrollers - Advanced. When you do, the check box for Poll w/ interrupts disappears. In GPL use direct input, not generic as it goes directly to the game port bypassing the PDPI driver. Bart Westra

Suprised nobody has suggested completely removing sound card and software and then reinstalling them...might work....did for me. Jake Myers

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>>On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:23:44 GMT, "Michael E. Carver" >>>For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in >>>the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet. >>>% But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The >>>% DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to >>>% speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not >>>% enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present >>>% skill level. >>I just added a PDPI L4 card to my PII 400 w/ Monster II. Using great >>wheel, TSW Sport. Arms still have advanced "Parkinson's" and the cars >>seem even more twitchy. Poll w/ interupts unchecked, direct input. >>Calibration looks steady but cars sometimes leap at the scenery. Don't >>think it's dirty pot, just started on gameport installation. Maybe >>it's a bug in the game itself. Using a Viewsonic PT775, high refresh >>rates. Prozak, anyone? >>Sam >I think you are not using the PDPI port driver in Control Panel - >Gamecontrollers - Advanced. When you do, the check box for Poll w/ >interrupts disappears. >In GPL use direct input, not generic as it goes directly to the game port >bypassing the PDPI driver. >Bart Westra

On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:16:35 -0500, "Jake Myers" >Suprised nobody has suggested completely removing sound card and software >and then reinstalling them...might work....did for me. >Jake Myers I have installed, uninstalled, tried different slots, reinstalled GPL, reinstalled Win95, unchecked interupts (and vice versa, just in case), done all of above changing the order I did them so in the end I had tried every possible permutation, ad nauseum. Nothing has worked. Parkinson's still there, unplayable with Direct Input, bearable with generic. I gave up on this 2 weeks ago. Now I'm just hoping the problem will go away when I get a USB-connected wheel (which I suppose will force me to go to Win98 from 95b), or a Gamecard, or there is a fix for this Windows problem. I think it is Windows fault because the Parkinsons exists in the Win95 calibration test screen. So I think GPL is just doing it's best with very "noisy" input it is receiving from Windows. Still, I'm still managing to improve at GPL, so I have to admit the main reason for my slow times is my own skill level, not hardware problems! I don't think I'll *need* to cure the shakes for a few weeks yet. Alan.

Have you checked, cleaned, replaced, the steering pot? Using spray contact cleaner helps. But, because some pots have grease inside which is broken down by the cleaner, the only reliable way to get electrically smooth action is to take the pot apart and clean the contact elements by hand. Just spray with the contact cleaner and wipe with toilet paper. Some here have reported success by changing to a digital game port. Apparently the analog ports are more sensitive to spikes in the changing resistance as a dirty pot is rotated. Just like in real racing, ultimate performance requires attention to detail. Marty

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> On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:16:35 -0500, "Jake Myers" > >Suprised nobody has suggested completely removing sound card and software > >and then reinstalling them...might work....did for me. > >Jake Myers > I have installed, uninstalled, tried different slots, reinstalled GPL, > reinstalled Win95, unchecked interupts (and vice versa, just in case), > done all of above changing the order I did them so in the end I had > tried every possible permutation, ad nauseum. Nothing has worked. > Parkinson's still there, unplayable with Direct Input, bearable with > generic. > I gave up on this 2 weeks ago. Now I'm just hoping the problem will go > away when I get a USB-connected wheel (which I suppose will force me > to go to Win98 from 95b), or a Gamecard, or there is a fix for this > Windows problem. > I think it is Windows fault because the Parkinsons exists in the Win95 > calibration test screen. So I think GPL is just doing it's best with > very "noisy" input it is receiving from Windows. > Still, I'm still managing to improve at GPL, so I have to admit the > main reason for my slow times is my own skill level, not hardware > problems! I don't think I'll *need* to cure the shakes for a few weeks > yet. > Alan.

I had the same problem and found it to be the Sound Blaster Awe 64 gameport. I disabled the port and put in a separate game card with two ports on it. That took care of the problems and it works great.

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> Have you checked, cleaned, replaced, the steering pot? Using spray contact > cleaner helps. But, because some pots have grease inside which is broken down > by the cleaner, the only reliable way to get electrically smooth action is to > take the pot apart and clean the contact elements by hand. Just spray with the > contact cleaner and wipe with toilet paper. > Some here have reported success by changing to a digital game port. Apparently > the analog ports are more sensitive to spikes in the changing resistance as a > dirty pot is rotated. > Just like in real racing, ultimate performance requires attention to detail. > Marty > > On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:16:35 -0500, "Jake Myers" > > >Suprised nobody has suggested completely removing sound card and software > > >and then reinstalling them...might work....did for me. > > >Jake Myers > > I have installed, uninstalled, tried different slots, reinstalled GPL, > > reinstalled Win95, unchecked interupts (and vice versa, just in case), > > done all of above changing the order I did them so in the end I had > > tried every possible permutation, ad nauseum. Nothing has worked. > > Parkinson's still there, unplayable with Direct Input, bearable with > > generic. > > I gave up on this 2 weeks ago. Now I'm just hoping the problem will go > > away when I get a USB-connected wheel (which I suppose will force me > > to go to Win98 from 95b), or a Gamecard, or there is a fix for this > > Windows problem. > > I think it is Windows fault because the Parkinsons exists in the Win95 > > calibration test screen. So I think GPL is just doing it's best with > > very "noisy" input it is receiving from Windows. > > Still, I'm still managing to improve at GPL, so I have to admit the > > main reason for my slow times is my own skill level, not hardware > > problems! I don't think I'll *need* to cure the shakes for a few weeks > > yet. > > Alan.

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>I had the same problem and found it to be the Sound Blaster Awe 64 gameport. I >disabled the port and put in a separate game card with two ports on it. That took >care of the problems and it works great. >> Have you checked, cleaned, replaced, the steering pot? Using spray contact >> cleaner helps. But, because some pots have grease inside which is broken down >> by the cleaner, the only reliable way to get electrically smooth action is to >> take the pot apart and clean the contact elements by hand. Just spray with the >> contact cleaner and wipe with toilet paper. >> Some here have reported success by changing to a digital game port. Apparently >> the analog ports are more sensitive to spikes in the changing resistance as a >> dirty pot is rotated. >> Just like in real racing, ultimate performance requires attention to detail. >> Marty >> > On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:16:35 -0500, "Jake Myers" >> > >Suprised nobody has suggested completely removing sound card and software >> > >and then reinstalling them...might work....did for me. >> > >Jake Myers >> > I have installed, uninstalled, tried different slots, reinstalled GPL, >> > reinstalled Win95, unchecked interupts (and vice versa, just in case), >> > done all of above changing the order I did them so in the end I had >> > tried every possible permutation, ad nauseum. Nothing has worked. >> > Parkinson's still there, unplayable with Direct Input, bearable with >> > generic. >> > I gave up on this 2 weeks ago. Now I'm just hoping the problem will go >> > away when I get a USB-connected wheel (which I suppose will force me >> > to go to Win98 from 95b), or a Gamecard, or there is a fix for this >> > Windows problem. >> > I think it is Windows fault because the Parkinsons exists in the Win95 >> > calibration test screen. So I think GPL is just doing it's best with >> > very "noisy" input it is receiving from Windows. >> > Still, I'm still managing to improve at GPL, so I have to admit the >> > main reason for my slow times is my own skill level, not hardware >> > problems! I don't think I'll *need* to cure the shakes for a few weeks >> > yet. >> > Alan.

I have a gravis eliminator game card I'd love to use instead of the port on my SB 64. However, in order to use it I have to disable the port on the SB. Since it's plug and play, there is no way to disable it, and no way to use my gamecard. Has anyone got around this problem? I check the board and manuals for a jumper, nothing visible.

% I have a gravis eliminator game card I'd love to use instead % of the port on my SB 64. However, in order to use it I have % to disable the port on the SB. Since it's plug and play, % there is no way to disable it, and no way to use my % gamecard. % Has anyone got around this problem? % I check the board and manuals for a jumper, nothing visible. Thrustmaster has some excellent tips on accomplishing this at http://www.thrustmaster.com/support/rcs_acm/pnp.htm One of the methods may work for you. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=