Celeron for sims again

I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. But I have a few questions... All related to overclocking to 450. FWIW I studied Computer Science in University for several years (and finished my degree). I also have a P150 overclocked to 166. Tried 180+ but wouldn't boot or had system errors. The point being that I am not new to this computer thing. I am either getting a Celeron 300A or an AMD K6-400 1) What motherboard should I get? 2) What are multipliers and bus speeds typically to overclock to 450? What should I be looking for in a motherboard? 3) If you have a 300A overclocked to 450, have you had any error messages while running Win95/98? When I tried running my P150 with a 75 bus speed I got a lot of error message--in fact my system was outright unstable. When I tried 66*3, it wouldn't boot up at all. 4) Is the Sound Blaster 64 PCI supported in Grand Prix Legends? 5) Any problems with overheating? Should I put the computer unit into a refrigerator? :)) 6) Any other advice? 7) What about the Celeron 400?

Try the newsgroup alt.comp.hardware.overclocking. There is LOTS of info there on overclocking the celeron.

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>I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. >But I have a few questions... >All related to overclocking to 450. FWIW I studied Computer Science >in University for several years (and finished my degree). I also have >a P150 overclocked to 166. Tried 180+ but wouldn't boot or had system >errors. The point being that I am not new to this computer thing. >I am either getting a Celeron 300A or an AMD K6-400 >1) What motherboard should I get? >2) What are multipliers and bus speeds typically to overclock to 450? >What should I be looking for in a motherboard? >3) If you have a 300A overclocked to 450, have you had any error >messages while running Win95/98? When I tried running my P150 with a >75 bus speed I got a lot of error message--in fact my system was >outright unstable. When I tried 66*3, it wouldn't boot up at all. >4) Is the Sound Blaster 64 PCI supported in Grand Prix Legends? >5) Any problems with overheating? Should I put the computer unit >into a refrigerator? :)) >6) Any other advice? >7) What about the Celeron 400?

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> I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. > But I have a few questions... > All related to overclocking to 450. FWIW I studied Computer Science > in University for several years (and finished my degree). I also have > a P150 overclocked to 166. Tried 180+ but wouldn't boot or had system > errors. The point being that I am not new to this computer thing. > I am either getting a Celeron 300A or an AMD K6-400 > 1) What motherboard should I get?

Abit's BH-6 seems to be one of the best boards for overclocking... Clock and multiplier settings in the BIOS rather than via jumper is one reason, another is CPU voltage settings available in BIOS. The ASUS P2B is another nice board, but it doesn't allow for voltage adjustments. Some Celerons won't run at 450 without a bit of voltage fiddling. Bus speed 100, multiplier 4X. Again, the Abit BH6 is probably the board to get for this. I haven't had a Celeron, but I run a PII 333 at 450 and I've seen no error messages of any kind in Windows. Yes, but it's not the best choice. I'd go with a Sound Blaster Live Value or Monster Sound MX300. Both can be had for under $100, both are a much better choice than the PCI 64. Use a good quality fan/heatsink combo, no overheating problems here at 450. Visit http://www.bxboards.com (a wealth of overclocking info) Trips

>I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. >But I have a few questions... >I am either getting a Celeron 300A or an AMD K6-400 >1) What motherboard should I get? Abit BH6. It has BIOS options for bus speed and core voltage. I'm currently running my 300A on it at 450. The other popular board is the ASUS (P2B??). See above. The celeron 300A is multiplier locked to 4.5x, so you run it at a 100MHz bus speed. Set the AGP/BUS setting at 2/3. You can even try running it faster. I haven't. At first, very much a "yes". With a couple of days burn in running at lower bus speed, and/or running in DOS at higher bus speeds, it now takes 450 with the std 2.0V. No more errors. Excercise that puppy at lower speeds! ??? Some say yes. But if you are able to run at the normal 2V, I doubt it. Patience, and luck. At least back up your registry (MS site, look for cfgback.exe). I'd recommend backing up your entire drive. I had a couple of scary registry errors and one FAT problem. But they seamed to heal thyselves. Doubt it can be much overclocked (actually over "bussed") since it'll be clock-locked to 6x and 6x100 is seriously doubtful. You can probably run 6*75, or hope for 6*83. But they are new so I don't know (nor care since I just got my 300A). I bought my 300A "boxed" from NECX for $100. That includes the std heatsink and fan. If you get an OEM one cheaper, you still need a decent sink/fan combo. In that case, everyone says get the thermal compound from Radio Shack to give a better thermal path from chip to sink. Some say that the "boxed" are better, but this is most probably anecdotal.

>I bought my 300A "boxed" from NECX for $100. That includes the std heatsink >and fan. If you get an OEM one cheaper, you still need a decent sink/fan >combo. In that case, everyone says get the thermal compound from Radio Shack >to give a better thermal path from chip to sink. >Some say that the "boxed" are better, but this is most probably anecdotal. AnandTech recently put up a good article that got to the bottom of which 300a's are good for overclocking and which aren't. Go to http://www.anandtech.com and look for the story called "The Celery Report: Overclocking the Celeron." -Bill -- Bill Mette | "A person is smart. People are dumb." MCSNet, Chicago | - K MiB

> Bus speed 100, multiplier 4X. Oops... make that bus speed 100, multiplier 4.5X for 450. Sorry about the typo... Trips

Does ambient temperature matter when overclocking ? I'd be interested to know anyone who has succesfully overclocked 300A to say a 450 (without frying the processor) who lives in the tropical region in which the air temperature normally ranges from 31-35oC . How did you manage to do it ? regards, B Hisham

What, no air conditioning?! With a dual fan/heatsink, you should be ok. The humidity in a tropical location increases the cooling effect of the heatsink through condensation and evaporation. Moisture combined with a fan in a small warm room is called an air conditioner. In some areas they're called "Swamp Coolers." Not as effective as a Freon-based refrigeration A/C unit, but much cheaper and very simple. Your processor should run cooler than one in a dry place. Your only worry should be what the moisture will do to the electronics. You may get as little as half the life expectancy as a dry climate(without dust).

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>Does ambient temperature matter when overclocking ? I'd be interested >to know anyone who has succesfully overclocked 300A to say a 450 >(without frying the processor) who lives in the tropical region in >which the air temperature normally ranges from 31-35oC . How did you >manage to do it ? >regards, >B Hisham

The 300a is the choice for overclocking - it appears that you have a very good chance of running it at 450. The Abit BH6 is the only board to get - if you can find one in stock somewhere right now. Boxed Celerons can be found right now for as low as 70.00. Don't even consider the K-6, it is not good for games unless the game has a 3D-Now instruction set. Also, the Super 7 mobos needed to run this chip had a lot of problems and may still have them now. It is not uncommon to have to step up the core voltage to get to 450. This means cooling is an issue - but a good heatsink fan and perhaps an extra case fan will probably suffice. There is a company called Minotaur technologies- www.minotaur.com - that will sell you a 300a that has been pretested at 450 for $20.00 more than their standard price. As of yesterday, that was 79.00 untested, $99.00 tested. I have not bought from them, but they are well regarded at www.resellerratings.com. However, check on their return policies - they may not take CPU's back. (If you catered to Overclockers, would you?) I am about to take the plunge myself. Wish ATX cases and PC100 ram were cheaper!

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> I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. > But I have a few questions... > All related to overclocking to 450. FWIW I studied Computer Science > in University for several years (and finished my degree). I also have > a P150 overclocked to 166. Tried 180+ but wouldn't boot or had system > errors. The point being that I am not new to this computer thing. > I am either getting a Celeron 300A or an AMD K6-400 > 1) What motherboard should I get? > 2) What are multipliers and bus speeds typically to overclock to 450? > What should I be looking for in a motherboard? > 3) If you have a 300A overclocked to 450, have you had any error > messages while running Win95/98? When I tried running my P150 with a > 75 bus speed I got a lot of error message--in fact my system was > outright unstable. When I tried 66*3, it wouldn't boot up at all. > 4) Is the Sound Blaster 64 PCI supported in Grand Prix Legends? > 5) Any problems with overheating? Should I put the computer unit > into a refrigerator? :)) > 6) Any other advice? > 7) What about the Celeron 400?

-- Otto Matheke "Mandrake, have you ever seen a commie drink a glass of water?"

> The Abit BH6 is the only board to get - The Abit BX6 is *just* as overclocking friendly as the BH6 (also with the softbios for easy overclocking). The only real difference is the number of ISA, PCI & memory slots. 8-) *Peter* #:-)

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> > The Abit BH6 is the only board to get - > The Abit BX6 is *just* as overclocking friendly as the BH6 (also with > the softbios for easy overclocking). The only real difference is the > number of ISA, PCI & memory slots. > 8-) > *Peter* #:-)

Just wondering, is "Peter Gagg" your real name? Rick

>> The Abit BH6 is the only board to get - >The Abit BX6 is *just* as overclocking friendly as the BH6 (also with >the softbios for easy overclocking). The only real difference is the >number of ISA, PCI & memory slots. Yes, I believe (may be wrong) that the BX6 has one more mem slot, one less PCI? The BX6 came out before the BH6. There has been a fair amount of speculation and/or anecdotal info that points to it *perhaps* being less oc friendly for some reason or other. Again "perhaps" due to it being older and less refined?? I opted for the BH6 due to this.

Isn't there ar newsgroup that would be more suitable for the discussion of overclocking [voiding the warranty of the chip] processors?

Yep, it certainly is, why would I want to change it? And, yes, I've heard most of the usual jokes (gags!), but hey, if you think you have an original one to offer, go for it..... 8-) *Peter* #:-)

>Date: Sat, Jan 9, 1999 01:28 EST >Isn't there ar newsgroup that would be more suitable for the discussion of >overclocking [voiding the warranty of the chip] processors? Yes there are newsgroups that deal with overclocking & also news groups that dealwith building your own PC's. But most people that are asking these questions on this newsgroup are looking for "real world" reports on what it does for their Sims. Yes overclocking is DANGEROUS. It will make your hair fall out, your ***s dry up & fall off & all other kinds of "Bad Things Man". {this is a disclaimer so if you blow yourself up it's not my fault}. The reason we overclock is to get PII 450 performance from the lowly Celeron processor. But if you want to take the risk of pushing your processor to the limit, YOU WILL get faster frame rates & a more enjoyable *** experience. The best thing to do if you want to overclock your machine is to do some research. There is a lot of information out there on overclocking eberything from a P120 to the new Celerons, K6-2s, & PIIs. Bill

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> > Just wondering, is "Peter Gagg" your real name? > Yep, it certainly is, why would I want to change it? > And, yes, I've heard most of the usual jokes (gags!), but hey, if you > think you have an original one to offer, go for it..... > 8-) > *Peter* #:-)

Noooooo....I wouldn't change a thing. <g> I think it's pretty cool. I was just curious if it was authentic. My real name is Ben Dover, hehe... j/k. Rick

> Isn't there ar newsgroup that would be more suitable for the > discussion of > overclocking [voiding the warranty of the chip] processors? Yep loads of em, but there are not *that* many o/c'ing threads here to complain about are there? and most of em are referring to how it improves performance in games/sims as well, so it is slightly relevant to the group. You could try filtering out any unwanted message types? 8-) *Peter* #:-)

David Masten skrev i meddelandet

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>>> The Abit BH6 is the only board to get - >>The Abit BX6 is *just* as overclocking friendly as the BH6 (also with >>the softbios for easy overclocking). The only real difference is the >>number of ISA, PCI & memory slots. >Yes, I believe (may be wrong) that the BX6 has one more mem slot, one less >PCI? >The BX6 came out before the BH6. There has been a fair amount of

speculation >and/or anecdotal info that points to it *perhaps* being less oc friendly for >some reason or other. Again "perhaps" due to it being older and less >refined?? I opted for the BH6 due to this. The BX6 does'nt support 124MHz bus.

But it *does* support 66, 75, 83, 100, 112, *and* 133MHz. Not had any problems with mine to date..... 8-) *Peter* #:-)

> The BX6 does'nt support 124MHz bus. Isnt there also some sort of a BIOS issue with the BX6? I just got a BH6 Trev

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> > The BX6 does'nt support 124MHz bus. > But it *does* support 66, 75, 83, 100, 112, *and* 133MHz. > Not had any problems with mine to date..... > 8-) > *Peter* #:-)

Peter, I assume you have the BX6 then? I just got a BH6 myself with a C 300A do you know just what all the differences are between the BX6 and BH6? I know there are a different number of slots but other than that I dont know anything about how the two compare. I'll be doing another computer soon and may just put a BX6 in it if there is any advantage to them as opposed to the BH6. Trev

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> I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. > But I have a few questions... > All related to overclocking to 450. FWIW I studied Computer Science > in University for several years (and finished my degree). I also have > a P150 overclocked to 166. Tried 180+ but wouldn't boot or had system > errors. The point being that I am not new to this computer thing. > I am either getting a Celeron 300A or an AMD K6-400 > 1) What motherboard should I get?

abit bh6 or bx6 highly recommended multiplier locked at 4.5 in the cpu itself, the abit's have a softmenu, e-z overclocking no worries kind of, I have heard of lots of conflicts depending on other factors check these sites http://www2.tomshardware.com/ http://forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=overclocker http://usa.abit.com.tw/html/emain.htm http://www.computernerd.com/prodind1.htm no. good luck, 90% go to 374, 80% to 450, a few to 504 and beyond

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>Subject: Re: Celeron for sims again >Date: 1/10/99 6:31 PM Eastern Standard Time >> > The BX6 does'nt support 124MHz bus. >> But it *does* support 66, 75, 83, 100, 112, *and* 133MHz. >> Not had any problems with mine to date..... >> 8-) >> *Peter* #:-) >Peter, >I assume you have the BX6 then? I just got a BH6 myself with a C 300A do >you know just what all the differences are between the BX6 and BH6? I >know there are a different number of slots but other than that I dont >know anything about how the two compare.

The BX6 has 4 dimm slots BH6 3 BX6 4 pci 3 isa BH6 5pci 2 isa BH6 is smaller and fits oversized heatsinks better and does 133/4 BX6 needs updated bios before it can run a 300a meaning if the one you buy isn't updated already,you need a PII to run it so you can flash the bios. ======================================= "Forget 911.....I dial .357 "Trespassers will be shot.Survivors will be shot again." =======================================

> > I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. > > But I have a few questions... <Snip> John, I'm curious as to why you replied "no" to the Celeron 400? I just put together a machine using the Abit BH6 and C 330A and am happy with it so far, I am going to be doing a second computer soon and was considering a C 400 with another BH6. What are the problems with the 400? Is it bus locked as well as multiplier? I was thinking it should be capable of around 600 Mhz? Thanks Trev

The odds of successfully overclocking any PII/Celeron to 600MHZ is extemely low, maybe not even possible. You might get 500MHZ out it and less likely maybe 550MHZ range. The other problem with overclocking Celerons other than the 300A is using buss speeds above 100MHZ. Most if not all of the current MB's only give the correct AGP/PCI buss speed at 66, 100, and 133MHZ which can lead to problems with some devices which use those busses. To my knowlege the first Intel proccessor that will be <though maybe not initially> designed for 133MHZ front buss is the Katmai <sp?> The core of the new Celerons is still the same one being used in the others. If you intend to run the C400A at it's intended speed, or possibly 112MHZ front buss you should have no problems. Dan.

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>> > I am seriously considering ordering a Celeron 300A next week. >> > But I have a few questions... ><Snip> >John, >I'm curious as to why you replied "no" to the Celeron 400? >I just put together a machine using the Abit BH6 and C 330A and am happy >with it so far, I am going to be doing a second computer soon and was >considering a C 400 with another BH6. >What are the problems with the 400? Is it bus locked as well as >multiplier? I was thinking it should be capable of around 600 Mhz? >Thanks >Trev

> If you intend to run the C400A at it's intended speed, or possibly 112MHZ > front buss you should have no problems. I thought the C400A had a 6x multiplier for a 66MHz bus. Thus, 6x100 = 600MHz is highly unlikely to work so 112MHz is out of the question. ER

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> The odds of successfully overclocking any PII/Celeron to 600MHZ is extemely > low, maybe not even possible. You might get 500MHZ out it and less likely > maybe 550MHZ range. The other problem with overclocking Celerons other than > the 300A is using buss speeds above 100MHZ. Most if not all of the current > MB's only give the correct AGP/PCI buss speed at 66, 100, and 133MHZ which > can lead to problems with some devices which use those busses. To my > knowlege the first Intel proccessor that will be <though maybe not > initially> designed for 133MHZ front buss is the Katmai <sp?> The core of > the new Celerons is still the same one being used in the others. > If you intend to run the C400A at it's intended speed, or possibly 112MHZ > front buss you should have no problems. > Dan.

Dan, thanks for the info :) I really didnt think it would be possible to push a Celeron 400 to 600 mhz, just curiosity mostly. My 300A at 450 is all I need right now but am always looking for ways to get more perf. Trev

I thought I read the new Celerons are using the 100MHZ buss so it should have 4X multiplier. I may be wrong <probably am> and if so your correct. Dan. >> If you intend to run the C400A at it's intended speed, or possibly 112MHZ >> front buss you should have no problems. >I thought the C400A had a 6x multiplier for a 66MHz bus. Thus, 6x100 = 600MHz >is highly unlikely to work so 112MHz is out of the question. >ER

>> The BX6 does'nt support 124MHz bus. >Isnt there also some sort of a BIOS issue with the BX6? I just got a BH6 The BX6's original BIOS didn't support the Celeron 300A. Pretty much all the BX6s out there now should have the upgraded BIOS, but if you bought an old one that had never been flashed, you'd have to flash it (using a P2) before it would work with a 300A. -- spamgard(tm): To email me, put "geek" in your Subject line.

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> > > The BX6 does'nt support 124MHz bus. > > But it *does* support 66, 75, 83, 100, 112, *and* 133MHz. > > Not had any problems with mine to date..... > > 8-) > > *Peter* #:-) > Peter, > I assume you have the BX6 then? I just got a BH6 myself with a C > 300A do > you know just what all the differences are between the BX6 and BH6?

No, fraid not, (apart from the no' of slots) I've posted a couple of questions regarding these two boards elsewhere, if I get any replis I'll let you know..... If I build another pc I'll use the BH6, as I've heard lots of good things about it. And the extra PCI slots will be important as ISA is gradually phased out. 8-) *Peter* #:-)

Yep, you are wrong. 66mhz bus speed with appropriate multiplier (6x) . I just ordered a 366 mhz model that I hope to push into the 550 land.... will let the group know. Jeff

I stand corrected. :) I've got my on the 366's as well. Think I'll wait for guys like you though to see how well it overclocks, and % of success. <G> Dan. >Yep, you are wrong. 66mhz bus speed with appropriate multiplier >(6x) . I just ordered a 366 mhz model that I hope to push into the >550 land.... will let the group know. >Jeff

I'm rather fond of the ASUS P2B-x series myself... -Larry > If I build another pc I'll use the BH6, as I've heard lots of good > things about it. And the extra PCI slots will be important as ISA is > gradually phased out.