Best Wheel for GPL (Thrutmaster, ACTLabs or TSW ???)

Hello, I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better wheel, better pedals and so on) I hesitate between : 1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price 2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL) 3 - TSW or TSW2 4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its name) I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to drive GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS wheel... Happy new year from France Norbert

I own a TSW2 that replaced my TM T-1 and recently borrowed a friend's Act Labs Force RS. I am surprised no one has mentioned the "gearish" feel of the Act Labs wheel. It feels like you can count the cogs on the thing. The pedals are awful, not just compared to the TSW2, but even to my old Thrustmaster (when it wasn't eating springs!) It is difficult to give partial throttle or brake, and they are a little sticky. The force feedback is nicely implemented in Viper Racing, but made Powerslide simply undriveable. That was surprising since Powerslide works great with my Microsoft FF joystick (and the TSW2 obviously without FF). I am not a super driver compared to most that hang out here, but my lap times on Viper racing were close to the same at the Dayton oval with the Act Labs vs TSW2, but at the road courses, I was always 2 to 3 seconds a lap faster with my TSW2. The precision of the wheel and especially pedals made me feel much more in control and able to turn better times. Before anyone asks, I paid full price for my TSW2 - this is not a paid favor for Trev. If I had no wheel and was looking to spend anywhere close to $200, I'd get a TSW2 in a heartbeat over any FF presently out there. The only things I don't like about my TSW2 - the potentiometers aren't very good, as shipped it is not split axis for gas and brakes, the shifter is on the dash, not on the wheel. All those things are options on regular TSWs and I think TSW2s as well, but made the price too high for my budget. Happy driving.

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> Hello, > I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better > wheel, better pedals and so on) > I hesitate between : > 1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price > 2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL) > 3 - TSW or TSW2 > 4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its > name) > I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to drive > GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the > maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS > wheel... > Happy new year from France > Norbert

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>Hello, >I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better >wheel, better pedals and so on) >I hesitate between : >1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price >2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL) >3 - TSW or TSW2 >4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its >name) >I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to

drive

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>GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the >maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS >wheel... >Happy new year from France >Norbert

Well, if you're the slightest bit handy, the wheel and peddle feel on a Hyper Stimulator kit is VERY nice. I'm not sure what the price would be in France, but the kits are quite reasonably priced over here. Check out: http://www.hyperstim.com/ TB

ECCI-CDS2 http://www.desktopsims.com/cds2e.htm I have one. It is the best. After breaking 3 TM-T2. This wheel can take the punishment. Works great on all racing sims. Excellent on Screamer2. Try S2 on a plastic wheel and you will know what I'm talking about. better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW Fred

Ooops this is a better page http://www.desktopsims.com/cds2c.htm

I would love to have a hyper, but here in the us the kit would be a months take home pay! JM

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> >Hello, > >I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better > >wheel, better pedals and so on) > >I hesitate between : > >1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price > >2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL) > >3 - TSW or TSW2 > >4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its > >name) > >I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to > drive > >GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the > >maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS > >wheel... > >Happy new year from France > >Norbert > Well, if you're the slightest bit handy, the wheel and peddle feel on a > Hyper Stimulator kit is VERY nice. > I'm not sure what the price would be in France, but the kits are quite > reasonably priced over here. > Check out: > http://www.hyperstim.com/ > TB

> better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW > Fred I would like to know what you base the above statement of "fact" on? Just because you spent far too much money on something which gives no better value per dollar spent than any TSW or TSW2 model does not make it a better product, in future it would be better if you include an "IMO" in your statements of comparison.

On Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:59:26 -0800, "FK"

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>ECCI-CDS2 >[link lost in import] >I have one. It is the best. After breaking 3 TM-T2. This wheel can take the >punishment. Works great on all racing sims. Excellent on Screamer2. Try >S2 on a plastic wheel and you will know what I'm talking about. >better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW >Fred

It may be prettier, but the TSW is the best for the buck anywhere. I don't spend any time looking at the wheel anyway, most of it is spent studying the grass and sh***y in GPL. Regards, Rick Carlson MSP Blue Goose Pilot #177 Car 3404

Actually, Car & Driver did a comparo of a bunch of wheels (Dec issue, I think) & said basically that fit, finish & quality of the ECCI-CDS2 was far better than the TSW. They still awarded the TSW 1st place due to the fact that it is MUCH cheaper than ECCI-CDS2. Just my .02 Randy

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> You broke 3 TM-T2, and in the same breath you say ECCI-CDS2 is better > than the TSW?. Your post is a little confusing here or better yet, > you're a little confused about how to compare products which you seem > to know nothing about or forgot to mention that you had owned or may > not have owned a TSW. > Have you or do you own a TSW Fred?. If not then you owe TSW an apology > for making a FALSE comparison. If you do/did then your opinion should > have mentioned a comparison of all 3 wheels...don't you think? > SG

Actually, C&D was a little more scathing than that, but I don't subscribe to the magazine anymore, so I can't give you a direct quote. I considered getting an ECCI or TSW, but I decided to go with a Hyperstimulator instead. So far, I've been delighted with it. Cheers, TB

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>Actually, >Car & Driver did a comparo of a bunch of wheels (Dec issue, I think) & >said basically that fit, finish & quality of the ECCI-CDS2 was far >better than the TSW. They still awarded the TSW 1st place due to the >fact that it is MUCH cheaper than ECCI-CDS2. >Just my .02 >Randy >> You broke 3 TM-T2, and in the same breath you say ECCI-CDS2 is better >> than the TSW?. Your post is a little confusing here or better yet, >> you're a little confused about how to compare products which you seem >> to know nothing about or forgot to mention that you had owned or may >> not have owned a TSW. >> Have you or do you own a TSW Fred?. If not then you owe TSW an apology >> for making a FALSE comparison. If you do/did then your opinion should >> have mentioned a comparison of all 3 wheels...don't you think? >> SG

I own a TSW2 wheel, a team mate of mine owns an ECCI wheel. We race Burnout PCE and I'm typically faster than he is using the same setups. Granted we don't do a lot of left and right steering but it is necessary to keep the car in the groove. The ECCI is a very fine product. But for the money and the guarantee Thomas Enterprises offers with their products. My choice was TSW.

Actually, C&D used the CDS4000, not the CDS2, in the comparison. I don't know how much better the CDS4000 is compared to the CDS2 (haven't tried the CDS4000, can't go anywhere to try it, don't know anyone who has one), but the CDS2 is significantly cheaper than the CDS4000. If C&D had used the CDS2 in the comparison, the price issue would have been a non-issue (and may have changed the outcome of the comparison), since the CDS2 is similarly priced to the TSW unit they tested (with similar features, except no paddle shifter on the CDS2...can't find my C&D now, but did the TSW unit have the Momo wheel? That's nice, but can you really feel the difference between a Momo suede wheel and a non-Momo suede wheel). Can't comment on the TSW wheels either, since I haven't tried it, can't go anywhere to try it, and don't know anyone who has one... BUT I can comment that I love my CDS2, and have no regrets about spending $600 on it. Actually, the only regret I have is that I don't have enough time to play games and use my CDS2... One question that bugs me is this: how could many people on this newsgroup constantly upgrade their hardware with the latest stuff, to extract maximum performance, only to settle on a sub-$100 wheel... Having a nice wheel really does add to the enjoyment of the game!!!

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>Actually, >Car & Driver did a comparo of a bunch of wheels (Dec issue, I think) & >said basically that fit, finish & quality of the ECCI-CDS2 was far >better than the TSW. They still awarded the TSW 1st place due to the >fact that it is MUCH cheaper than ECCI-CDS2. >Just my .02 >Randy

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> It may be prettier, but the TSW is the best for the buck anywhere. I > don't spend any time looking at the wheel anyway, most of it is spent > studying the grass and sh***y in GPL. > Regards, > Rick Carlson

Rick, Thanks a lot for the support :) I hate to see an ECCI owner bashing our product for no good reason. IMO it seems as though it may be an effort to justify having spent far more money than necessary and not getting any more value for it. Car and Driver magazine seems to agree with me since they rated us No1<g>! Trev

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> You broke 3 TM-T2, and in the same breath you say ECCI-CDS2 is better > than the TSW?. Your post is a little confusing here or better yet, > you're a little confused about how to compare products which you seem > to know nothing about or forgot to mention that you had owned or may > not have owned a TSW. > Have you or do you own a TSW Fred?. If not then you owe TSW an apology > for making a FALSE comparison. If you do/did then your opinion should > have mentioned a comparison of all 3 wheels...don't you think? > SG

Couldnt have said it better :) I hate to see ECCI owners bashing our product for no reason, especially since we offer so much more value per dollar spent if you consider what you get. We have two product lines with several models, each model is totally customizable and best of all, the TSW and TSW2 last forever and are warranted for life. Trev

> I own a TSW2 wheel, a team mate of mine owns an ECCI wheel. We race Burnout > PCE and I'm typically faster than he is using the same setups. Granted we > don't do a lot of left and right steering but it is necessary to keep the > car in the groove. The ECCI is a very fine product. But for the money and > the guarantee Thomas Enterprises offers with their products. My choice was > TSW. Thanks John, its nice to see that there are supporters of Thomas Enterprises and the TSW/TSW2 here in the newsgroup :). I'd think there maybe be more than a few judging by how many we sell in a month<g>! BTW Car and Driver magazine December 98 ish also said that the TSW gives better laptimes than the ECCI and this was at Sears Point where there is a lot of back and forth. We DO NOT claim this to be the case but we certainly DO feel we give better value per dollar spent than any other wheel maker if all factors are considered. As far as this claim by some ECCI owners that their wheel is better in any way cannot be backed by proof IMO. What burned me was the flat statement that the ECCI is superior, especially since there was no "IMO" and no proof and I doubt the guy ever owned a TSW or TSW2 product. Trev

<snip> > What burned me was the flat statement that the ECCI is superior, > especially since there was no "IMO" and no proof and I doubt the guy > ever owned a TSW or TSW2 product. > Trev OH NO!!! Someone in this group with a biased opinion!! :):):)

Because we use the computer a lot more than the wheel? :-) If you play driving games all the time you're on the computer its justified, but for me to ship a TSW2 from the US to here in Australia , the price gets ridiculous (partially blamed on our ***currency). (Also, if something went wrong, wed have to ship it all the way back to the US to fix). Horse for courses really. Weekend racer = cheaper not as good wheel Fulltime racer = expensive/better wheel Personally, I have a GP1, and its fine for when I want to race. A TSW or ECCI or FF wheel would be nice, but at 4-5 times the cost of my GP1, its not justified when it sits under the desk for a week or two. -- Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo - - V8Supercars - CART -

Wow, just by replying someone's post on "Best wheel for GPL" I get all these bashing from TSW himself. I thought newsgroup is where we can post our experience and opinion. I wasn't bashing the TSW, I just thought my ECCI has a better fit and finish "IMHO". As for pricing, a comparable featured TSW (modified) is no cheaper to ECCI-CD2. I did my research and choose ECCI, Sorry TSW. ECCI-CD2 $599+h/s TSW modified $650 +h/s I was mainly expressing my experience with Trustmaster. I did not anyway bash TSW. TSW corporate bullying on post was unnecessary. Fred

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><snip> >> What burned me was the flat statement that the ECCI is superior, >> especially since there was no "IMO" and no proof and I doubt the guy >> ever owned a TSW or TSW2 product. >> Trev >OH NO!!! Someone in this group with a biased opinion!! :):):)

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:03:16 -0800, "FK" Fred, Next time put IMHO then. Go back and look at your post which says plainly "better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW" I think Trevor is entitled to defend his product against such claims. And if you were him, you would do the same. -- Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo - - V8Supercars - CART -

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> Thanks John, its nice to see that there are supporters of Thomas > Enterprises and the TSW/TSW2 here in the newsgroup :). I'd think there > maybe be more than a few judging by how many we sell in a month<g>! > BTW Car and Driver magazine December 98 ish also said that the TSW gives > Trev

Ahh.. Dear Trev i have seen ECCI and TSW websites many times, pondering which one to buy? It is still a lot of money and then suddenly comes Logitech Force Feedback wheel. I love FF especially the developments in FF (not the "outdated" microsoft api) justify my optimism. I absolutely believe 1999 will be the brake through for FF. And that is what I sorely miss in ECCI and TSW. The steering wheel is for me NOT in the first place to win internet games with the fastest lap times but to ENHANCE the driving simulation as an experience. Real life driving have a lot of tactile feedback. non feedback force driving is very sterile..in comparison. Anything that will make my ( safe) experience at home less sterile will get my money.. Kyrill

"Bashing"? What are you guys, nuts? Who really "bashes" who around here? I'm sick of this crap. Why is it every time someone talks up hardware that is non-TSW, they get "***ed" by a horde of TSW thugs? Does TSW own this newsgroup? Got news for you TSW. This ain't your street. We can discuss whatever we want, and we should be able to do it without having to be buried in ridiculous flame messages. Fact is, if your stuff was really so great, and really in such demand, there wouldn't be any need at all to try to terrorize those with differing opinions. The quality of the product would speak for itself. As for Car & Driver, I gotta wonder about how TSW came out so well. Seems I recall something about "high school wood shop construction". Maybe the other manufacturers don't hand out freebie systems like penny candy as TSW has in order to get purchased endor***ts. Peace and love, Karl Heinz

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> On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:03:16 -0800, "FK" > Fred, > Next time put IMHO then. > Go back and look at your post which says plainly > "better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW" > I think Trevor is entitled to defend his product against such claims. > And if you were him, you would do the same.

Nathan, Thanks for your post, any time I see anyone bashing our products here or anywhere else you can bet I'll post and take him on. If there is anything that hacks me off, its someone dumping on our TSW or TSW2 without good reason and then not having the decency to include an "IMO". I dont really care what wheel they own, I'll put the TSW up against it anytime for polish, fit, accessories or anything else. We've been told hundreds of time that our products are second to none in any area and better than any other in all the ways that mean anything to a serious racer. Thanks again :)! Trev

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> > Thanks John, its nice to see that there are supporters of Thomas > > Enterprises and the TSW/TSW2 here in the newsgroup :). I'd think there > > maybe be more than a few judging by how many we sell in a month<g>! > > BTW Car and Driver magazine December 98 ish also said that the TSW gives > > Trev > Ahh.. > Dear Trev i have seen ECCI and TSW websites many times, pondering which one to > buy? > It is still a lot of money and then suddenly comes Logitech Force Feedback wheel. > I love FF especially the developments in FF (not the "outdated" microsoft api) > justify my optimism. > I absolutely believe 1999 will be the brake through for FF. > And that is what I sorely miss in ECCI and TSW. The steering wheel is for me NOT > in the first place to win internet games with the fastest lap times but to ENHANCE > the driving simulation as an experience. > Real life driving have a lot of tactile feedback. non feedback force driving is > very sterile..in comparison. > Anything that will make my ( safe) experience at home less sterile will get my > money.. > Kyrill

Hi Kyrill, Thanks for your post :) as for the force feedback issue here is Thomas Enterprises official feeling about it: 1, We COULD do FF if we wanted to but in order to include it and also maintain our standard of quality, we would be using only the best quality motors, gear trains and electronic components. IMO this would price the FF TSW far beyond the practical range and people would not buy enough of them to make it worthwhile. 2, We have been told by serious *** racers that FF is not important to them, degree of control and precision is what they value most and this is where our products stand out from all the rest, FF or not. 3, Since the *** racers are who we cater to, there is no point in us putting a lot of time and money into something that would not appeal to our market. I have nothing against FF myself although I place no value on it either, there are enough FF wheels available now for those who do want it and so we wont try to compete with wheels costing $300.00 or less. Trev

I'm not sure this will happen, but I was told that ECCI has plans for FF and hope to be able to retrofit it to existing models. I like my ECCI, but it costs alot of bucks. Being single, I could do it, if I were married, probably not. . . I don't know about TSW but I would guess they have plans also for when the technology arrives in full. -David >Dear Trev i have seen ECCI and TSW websites many times, pondering which one to >buy? >It is still a lot of money and then suddenly comes Logitech Force Feedback wheel. >I love FF especially the developments in FF (not the "outdated" microsoft api) >justify my optimism. >I absolutely believe 1999 will be the brake through for FF. >And that is what I sorely miss in ECCI and TSW. The steering wheel is for me NOT >in the first place to win internet games with the fastest lap times but to ENHANCE >the driving simulation as an experience.

If I were him and I personally have spoken to Trevor over the phone, would leave it as is. What's to defend? Or are you just plainly offended? It was an opinion whether he added IMHO, IMO, or chiseled in stone, it was an opinion . (period) Leave it at that. I do however agree with Fred and a few others on here. Why is it that any time someone mentions anything other than a Thomas Enterprises Wheel, they get the bashing from the WHOLE of the Thomas Enterprises Groupies? I was going to buy a TSW or TSW2 at one time and as I previously mentioned, even called Trevor about his product and asked for sponsorship in a league. The reason I decided NOT to buy was because of this constant bashing by his followers. Sorry Trev. Your boys spoiled it for you. I have since received offers to beta test new products for other companies and have the world of Wheel/Pedal combinationations at my disposal. I will someday buy a personal set for my driving (I currently personally own a TM Nascar Pro and still Love it), but I can tell you now it won't be a Thomas Enterprises. And that is based on fact and past experience and not opinion. Nuff Said. (period) again :) Peter Walker

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>On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:03:16 -0800, "FK" >Fred, >Next time put IMHO then. >Go back and look at your post which says plainly >"better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW" >I think Trevor is entitled to defend his product against such claims. >And if you were him, you would do the same. >>Wow, just by replying someone's post on "Best wheel for GPL" I get all >>these bashing from TSW himself. I thought newsgroup is where we can post >>our experience and opinion. I wasn't bashing the TSW, I just thought my >>ECCI has a better fit and finish "IMHO". As for pricing, a comparable >>featured TSW (modified) is no cheaper to ECCI-CD2. I did my research and >>choose ECCI, Sorry TSW. >>ECCI-CD2 $599+h/s >>TSW modified $650 +h/s >>I was mainly expressing my experience with Trustmaster. I did not anyway >>bash TSW. TSW corporate bullying on post was unnecessary. >>Fred >-- >Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors > - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo - > - V8Supercars - CART -

On 10 Jan 1999 00:44:03 GMT, "Peter Walker" >If I were him and I personally have spoken to Trevor over the phone, would >leave it as is. What's to defend? Or are you just plainly offended? It was >an opinion whether he added IMHO, IMO, or chiseled in stone, it was an >opinion . (period) Leave it at that. That's if it was you. He is still entitled to defend his product against un-substantiated claims is he not? If it's something which is obviously un-reasearched or un-informed, then people will come in for a bit of flak no matter what they criticise. Whether its a wheel, or a CPU, or a video card, or what sort of dog you own. Lucky you. Past experience? So you've owned a TSW? What fact? That people who own TSW wheels tend to defend the builder against rubbish statements? If you made the TSW wheels, wouldnt you like to see your customers defend the product? Or are you happy to have your gear get criticsed by someone who hasnt even seen one in the flesh but merely read about it? *proud Thrustmaster user, non-TSW owner, non-TSW groupie* -- Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo - - V8Supercars - CART -

Give an example of this "***ing" and "bashing" by the "TSW thugs" Do you? Please quote example of this terror. Seems I also recall it saying "The steering wheel is also weighted perfectly throughout its entire travel which makes this wheel smooth and predictable. Being comfortable, and having a wheel that directs your car where you want, when you want, was a difficult combination to find in this group, and the TSW excelled." I guess this isn't really important, is it? As for the "high school wood shop construction", a TSW is not as elegant as a ECCI, but I didnt spend much more on a TSW2 than my troublesome TM wheels, and the performance if the TSW is so far ahead of the TM and other assorted mass produced wheels, I'll gladly put up a somewhat less attractive wheel. It certainly does not manifest itself in any other negative manner. The construction is heavy and very overbuilt than what is necessary. No BS clamps for the wheel or pedals are necessary. Maybe the Where did this come from? Please provide your source of this informative little factoid. Maybe a little bullshit sprinkled on top to bolster weak commentary? There is no doubt that ECCI makes a good wheel, so does TSW. It really boils down to personal preference and price v. performance, the latter is where the TSW really shines. Love and peas. Think twice, post once. Regards, Rick Carlson MSP Blue Goose Pilot #177 Car 3404

Oh it's not just the TSW people. I got slammed big time in the Ten newsgroup for saying things about the ECCI. People are weird on this wheel debate. BTW, I did end up getting the ECCI and it is by far the best wheel I've tried and I have tried the TSW. The TSW is a fine wheel, but there is NO way it's as good as the ECCI. NO WAY! IMHO <g> But maybe I'm just being weird now. <g> Tom

> I will someday buy a personal set for my driving (I currently personally own > a TM Nascar Pro and still Love it), but I can tell you now it won't be a > Thomas Enterprises. And that is based on fact and past experience and not > opinion. I own my 4th Thrustmaster Formula 1 having taking the previous three back to the shop with various faults. The time before last I got a Digital Edge F1 Sim because I was fed up with the thing going wrong all the time, but the DEF1 gave such a horrible drive that I went back to the Thrustmaster. I still own a Thrustmaster GP1 as well which is on loan to a friend and because I earnt such a huge loyality bonus from my EB purchases, I cashed that in for a Thrustmaster TM2 so that I could have three way races on my LAN. My brother in law has a DEF1 sim compact, my son has a Mad Catz Playstation wheel and my godson has an Interact V3. Before they were bought out Byte has a vast range of steering wheel on demo and I tried them all out. PC World had Microsoft's FF wheel (I forget it's name) on demo the other day and I tried that one out as well. At various other times I have tried other wheels and, in terms of mass production wheels, I am a bit of an expert. I think of major wheel makes the only ones I haven't tried are the ActLabs products, the ECCI products and the Hyperstimulator. Last summer, I got tired of these wheels breaking down all the time and splashed out on a TSW Sport - not the cheapest Thomas wheel, but not the most expensive either. Now I can't stand using any of the other wheels - they are so light and the springs or cogs so imprecise or weak. The TSW Sport has study thick metal springs on both the wheel and pedal units and a the wheel has a very clean turn on its shaft. The pedal unit is heavy and can be simply rested on the floor without needing to be chocked against anything. The pedal action is smooth and precise and you can brake or accelerate just exactly as much as you want. The shifting paddles are sprung to exactly the right amount and are positioned in just the right place. The comfort feel is excellent and you can ignore the wheel as you attempt to negotiate the GPL beasts around those infernal corners. The wheel had obviously been extensively tested on the virtual racetrack. This is not so with any other wheel I have tried, where the wheels flaws have to be paid attention to constantly, detracting from your lap times. The wheel does have a handmade look and construction, but that gives it extra charm in my book. The wheel is easy to maintain and alter - this is very important - if you drive sims often you WILL need to maintain the wheel - any wheel - and the TSW Sport is easy to look after. Alteration are a doodle - independant brakes/throttle for example. The wheel is also very tough and the parts slung on a very study welded iron frame. It just doesn't break. On the down side the TSW Sport is expensive and I had to change the pots to 50K and get a highspeed game port to get rid of the bounce on the pots - when you split the brake/accelerator this goes anyway. Overall, if you are going to get a wheel pedal, you will not be disappointed with this. Shame is that you have excluded yourself from this choice - I wouldn't take such an attitude if I were you. Thomas Enterprises are a small family company and I can imagine how much effort they have to put in to keep the thing going. When your excellant product, of which you are rightly proud, get slated, especially in a forum like this and especially by someone who has never owned your wheel, I can imagine that you will get very offended. I think Trevor has every right to express affrontery. The ECCI and the Hyperstimulator both look like excellant driving systems as well - because of the price I expect that few people own any two of these three driving systems, so for most of us comparison as not available. If I were to buy another wheel, it would be the ECCI model, just because I'd like to compare the Rolls Royce of wheels with the Mercedes. Dedicated sim racers should be grateful that these companies exist. It is a niche market and we are lucky that there are as many as three players in it. Which of these wheels is in fact the best is probably not something absolute anyway, but a matter of preference. My only beef with Thomas Enterprises is that when I sent them Colin McRae Rally, they acknowledged receipt but omitted to thank me - I expect this was an oversight on their part. Cheers, Paul

You wouldn't believe it but the thread is still going under Re:TSW #1?????? Fred