GPL-Multiplayer How a startnumbers assigned to players?

Does anybody know how GPL is assigning the carnumbers to the different players in GPL? Am I able to setup my carnumber in multiplayer races? Greetings, Dirk

The server is always assigned to the #4 car and the other drivers are assigned numbers in order based on the AI car they would have bumped from a full 20 car field (i.e the 1st driver to join would bump Beltoise and get his #8). - Eric

I sure hope Papy intends on addressing this. It would be real handy to be able to get the same car number every week in online league racing.

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>The server is always assigned to the #4 car and the other drivers are >assigned numbers in order based on the AI car they would have bumped >from a full 20 car field (i.e the 1st driver to join would bump Beltoise >and get his #8). >>Does anybody know how GPL is assigning the carnumbers to the different >>players in GPL? Am I able to setup my carnumber in multiplayer races?

-- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS Director http://members.home.net/jms1/igps.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

We don't have any plans on changing this in GPL, mostly because GPL wasn't designed to allow it. We designed it this way because we didn't see a need for it (see my previous post on this subject). John, why is this an issue for running league races in GPL? What did we miss? Randy

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>>I sure hope Papy intends on addressing this. It would be real >>handy to be able to get the same car number every week in online >>league racing. >We don't have any plans on changing this in GPL, mostly because >GPL wasn't designed to allow it. We designed it this way because >we didn't see a need for it (see my previous post on this >subject). John, why is this an issue for running league races in >GPL? What did we miss?

There's no "technical" need, and it's not so much car numbers, but... The primary reason people buy these sims (whether anyone at Papy wants to believe/admit it or not) is to race, but the secondary reason is to race ONLINE against other humans. Every time Papy hits the streets with a new sim, the VERY first question is related to multiplayer (internet) issues. These sims (IMHO) should be geared more (than they are now) towards multiplayer use where we can actually run an online (or even offline) league from within the sim. Optionally, the user can just use the standard carset for non-league online play. As I see it... 1) Each driver would submit his/her own car.bmp file to the league admin. This bmp file would have the user's desired color scheme and assigned/selected car number on it. For instance, if I was driving an the #15 Eagle, I would submit EAG15.BMP if I wanted my car to look different than what GPL already provides. 2) League admin would build a carset with all of the drivers' cars in it. The EAGLE.DAT file could/would only have cars in it that the league uses, so if there were only two Eagle drivers in the league, the EAGLE.DAT file would only have MIP files for those two cars (and the engine/dash/driver stuff of course). This would save disk space (if that ever became an issue) and would also reduce carset download times. 3) The league carset would be made available to all of the drivers in the league. 4) When the league admin run a race, the server would only allow league drivers to log in to a league race. Eligibility could be determnined like so: a) Sign-in name, and/or b) The existance of the carset on the client machine. 5) If the driver has the correct carset and correct car name, the server tells the client machine what car number and what chassis to use. Keep in mind that this is a VERY brief overview of how I would see it working and does not address any issues other than what I've stated here. IMHO, it would provide a deeper level of immersion, and would promote the formation of more online leagues, which would probably produce more sales for Sierra/Papy. Being good enough is not good enough - going the extra step is how you become the best at what you do. And you can count on me asking for this again in N2000 if the feature isn't there. If it weren't for the online racing (such as it is), I don't think I would even have bought GPL in the first place. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have a definite idea of how the online stuff should be approached, and I don't feel like Papy has gone as far as they can with it. What's there is pretty good, but it can be way better, too. -- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS Director http://members.home.net/jms1/igps.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

On 4 Jan 1999 18:39:27 GMT, "Randy Cassidy"

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>> I sure hope Papy intends on addressing this. It would be real handy to >> be able to get the same car number every week in online league racing. >We don't have any plans on changing this in GPL, mostly because GPL wasn't >designed to allow it. We designed it this way because we didn't see a need >for it (see my previous post on this subject). John, why is this an issue >for running league races in GPL? What did we miss?

Randy, The technical issues are far more important in on line racing than worrying about what car number people are using. Mr. Simmons seems overly concerned about controlling who drives what car, who races , etc. My experience has been frustration with warps and the mayhem that ensues when unrealistic collision speeds are detected and applied by the physics engine. Also I've got a 450 mhz celeron with 128 mb ram, etc and almost every on-line race I run it always seems to be running in slow motion. I know that I turn down my details to get a solid 36 fps when racing on-line. I don't know if my clock is that far out of calibration but it is very disconcerting to warm up off line and then have the rhythm thrown off. I have tried 4 different ISP's, core.ini's, serial and USB modems and nothing is a real cure. I get disconnects, clock smashes and warps. Until cable or ADSL service comes to my small town, I'm SOL. If there is something that can make the server code more robust then that is where the resources should be placed. I remember testing Hawaii (for a month until I got my $120 phone bill :) ) and still miss that smooth feeling. I think for those of us with slow connections, ISPs, or routers, on-line racing is just a bit out of reach. On the other hand, the AI is good enough that I really enjoy racing the full field at hi res, 36 fps and full detail. Stand alone doesn't get me sweating like the on-line experience does but it makes for far less frustration of having a reasonably good drive going and then get disconnected! How about turning off chat capability PERIOD during a race? At least an option for the client or server. Too many folks are discourteous after crashing out of a race early. Once again, thanks for a great product. Jeff Haas

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> On 4 Jan 1999 18:39:27 GMT, "Randy Cassidy" >>>I sure hope Papy intends on addressing this. It would be real >>>handy to be able to get the same car number every week in online >>>league racing. >>We don't have any plans on changing this in GPL, mostly because >>GPL wasn't designed to allow it. We designed it this way because >>we didn't see a need for it (see my previous post on this >>subject). John, why is this an issue for running league races in >>GPL? What did we miss? >Randy, >The technical issues are far more important in on line racing than >worrying about what car number people are using. Mr. Simmons seems >overly concerned about controlling who drives what car, who races , >etc.

Well, we *are* talking about league-specific features, not connection quality issues. Connection quality can be (and is probably alread being) addressed as a separate issue. My complaint is that it's impossible to run an online league with much sense of realism or immersion - sure, we can race against other humans, but we all look the same. I want to be able to identify a car visually without having to wait till I can make out the number. I want everyone that runs in my league to be able to post "their car" on their web page (or on the league web page) without having to settle for the generic blue Eagle, or everyday green lotus. No extra bandwidth is required to perform this functionality beyond the initial log-in of a driver. Don't forget the people with ***in' connections but hardware that's severly lacking in the juevos department. I want league-specific features (or capabilities) added, and you want them to fix connection reliability. I think both requests are viable and right, but I'd be willing to bet that we see connections improve LONG before they cater to the specific requests of the league racers and administrators. Chat doesn't hurt bandwidth, it's merely distracting. I personally find it extremely distracting even to see the seemingly constant flow of connect/disconnect messages. I constructed a simple cardboard blinder that covers the offending section of the screen (but I agree, I'd like a way to turn this off completely). -- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS Director [link lost in import] If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

> How about turning off chat capability PERIOD during a race? At least > an option for the client or server. Too many folks are discourteous > after crashing out of a race early. Goto OPTIONS where the sound is configured, uncheck the "In car chat" box. If its not on that screen just flip through them, there are only 3 :) -------- Jason Monds "My other car is a Ferrari" http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl - For my combined gas/brake setups (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:29:00 -0700, Jason Monds >> How about turning off chat capability PERIOD during a race? At least >> an option for the client or server. Too many folks are discourteous >> after crashing out of a race early. >Goto OPTIONS where the sound is configured, uncheck the "In car chat" box. >If its not on that screen just flip through them, there are only 3 :) I wondered what that was for. Duh!!!! Thanks. Jeff

Hi, if you go into the GPL options pages from within the game, in the sound and gameplay page there is a section called miscellaneous where there is an option to turn off incar chat. Ian Parker

> >... > >...What did we miss? > ... > As I see it... ... > These sims (IMHO) should be geared more (than they are now) towards > multiplayer use... ... good stuff about on-line car sets & leagues snipped... All the issues you point out (and more) were covered in our "complete" design for GPL. But building a product is a balancing act. Resources (people, time, money, sanity) are limited, so any time you focus more of them on one aspect of a product, another aspect will necessarily suffer. We certainly greatly enjoy MP racing, and feel that it's an essential part of a racing sim. But the fact of the matter is that the majority of people that buy our products use them almost exclusively in single player mode. Given the resources at our disposal we feel that, for the most part, we made a reasonable set of compromises in the set of features we chose to implement for GPL. I know. Nor am I. When we released GPL, we had gone as far as we could go. But, no, we hadn't gone as far as we had wanted to go, or as far as we knew how to go. All you *** theorists (not directed at you, John) will infer from all this that Sierra wouldn't let Papyrus do the product we wanted to do. And you will be wrong. Randy

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>>>... >>>...What did we miss? >> ... >>As I see it... >... >>These sims (IMHO) should be geared more (than they are now) towards >>multiplayer use... >...good stuff about on-line car sets & leagues snipped... >All the issues you point out (and more) were covered in our >"complete" design for GPL. But building a product is a balancing >act. Resources (people, time, money, sanity) are limited, so >any time you focus more of them on one aspect of a product, >another aspect will necessarily suffer.

Yeah, I know. Being a programmer myself, I know that tune very well, but as an end-user, I don't have to condsider that stuff. :-) Yeah, but they don't count. :-) I agree. You guys put out a ***in' product this time 'round... Now, get to work on those MP issues... :-) Good - I'd have to get some unsavory character to come over and break your coding hand... ;-) Yeah - it's too bad management holds your feet to the timeline fire and users pester you endlessly for a release date and complete feature list on a daily basis. I can't tell you how many times I've semi- seriously considered changing jobs to something like long-haul trucking... Like I said, it's not necessary for the league support to be there (obviously - the sim works great as it is), but it sure would be a nice touch to add (and to include in N3) - I hope you filed away my "league support theory" in a safe place where you can reach it when the time comes. :-) -- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS Director [link lost in import] If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

As a mechanical engineer, software developer, and former sports car racer, I have to tell you that GPL is one incomprehensibly outstanding product! The thought of three-dimensional dynamics calculations for twenty simultaneous automobiles is staggering. When you throw a beautiful interface on top of it, you're just showing off! ;-) Now cut it out! If you keep it up, none of us will get any work done!

On 5 Jan 1999 22:58:11 GMT, "Randy Cassidy" >When we released GPL, we had gone as far as we could go. But, no, we >hadn't gone as far as we had wanted to go, or as far as we knew how to go. >All you *** theorists (not directed at you, John) will infer from >all this that Sierra wouldn't let Papyrus do the product we wanted to do. >And you will be wrong. I know, it was Cendant (LOL). Three years is a long time to work on a project and not have a deliverable so I can understand that GPL came out without everything the team wanted. I don't know of any system that ever got built where the designers and programmers didn't want to include more. What is encouraging from your comments is that there is more to be found. Maybe a future product will give us GPL at close to the limit. Jeff