Force feed back wheels - better driving?

Since my wife and inlaws find it easier to just give me vouchers at Christmas and with a 44th birthday looming, hence another round of vouchers, I'm in the market for a force feedback wheel, (FFB) I have an excellent analog wheel built by Ferraro design in Melbourne, Aust, however the idea of improving the experience through a good FFB intrigues me. My experience to date has been a trial with the Logitech Wingman force and Powerslide and GPL with the Microsoft effort. The wingman experience made me wonder if the power was switched of whereas the MS wheel in GPL felt "loose". The Saitek (spelling?) wheel is also available in Australia however I'm afraid I still like a bit of style and the thing looks goofy. I'm told we have to wait a couple of months before the ActLabs FFB wheel is available in Australia. Perhaps with improvements to both the paddles and with USB and the ability to assign different axis to brake and throttle that I've read about. Question time: 1. The pedals on my present wheels are really good, I mean, really good. Has anyone tried to wire up different pedals to any FFB wheel. Is it possible?. 2. Seriously, just how good are these FFB wheels in non FFB games ie GPL. Any recommendations. 3. The experience with the Logitech wheel and Powerslide was very offputting, surely these things are designed to give some feedback to help driving not just to feel a bump or pull occasionally. Was something amiss or is this as good as it gets, (with the Logitech wheel at least). 4. If you wanted to really showcase FFB and its benefits what game/wheel combination would you recommend. Thankyou for any input. Rgds - Piper1

Piper, I'm not speaking from experience yet, but from what I've heard and the track record Thrusmaster has with driving wheels, the new Force GT from TM looks like the best bang for the buck out there. I've got one on advanced order that was supposed to be in today, but it wont be in until tomorrow..... I tried the MS FF wheel and was NOT impressed. The clamping mechanism was inadequate, and the feel of it was a bit on the low-rent side. However, if you're looking for a game that made even THAT wheel feel like a million bucks, Need for Speed III was greast with FF enabled! I'll let you know how the TM Force GT is after tomorrownight! I'm dying to get my hands on that wheel! Ray

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>Since my wife and inlaws find it easier to just give me vouchers at >Christmas and with a 44th birthday looming, hence another round of >vouchers, I'm in the market for a force feedback wheel, (FFB) >I have an excellent analog wheel built by Ferraro design in Melbourne, >Aust, however the idea of improving the experience through a good FFB >intrigues me. >My experience to date has been a trial with the Logitech Wingman force >and Powerslide and GPL with the Microsoft effort. >The wingman experience made me wonder if the power was switched of >whereas the MS wheel in GPL felt "loose". >The Saitek (spelling?) wheel is also available in Australia however >I'm afraid I still like a bit of style and the thing looks goofy. >I'm told we have to wait a couple of months before the ActLabs FFB >wheel is available in Australia. Perhaps with improvements to both the >paddles and with USB and the ability to assign different axis to brake >and throttle that I've read about. >Question time: >1. The pedals on my present wheels are really good, I mean, really >good. Has anyone tried to wire up different pedals to any FFB wheel. >Is it possible?. >2. Seriously, just how good are these FFB wheels in non FFB games ie >GPL. Any recommendations. >3. The experience with the Logitech wheel and Powerslide was very >offputting, surely these things are designed to give some feedback to >help driving not just to feel a bump or pull occasionally. Was >something amiss or is this as good as it gets, (with the Logitech >wheel at least). >4. If you wanted to really showcase FFB and its benefits what >game/wheel combination would you recommend. >Thankyou for any input. >Rgds >- >Piper1

I agree that the Ferraro wheel / pedals are great. pity that they are only available in small quantities and only in Australia. Having lurked at this group for a while now, I think many would be impressed with this combo.

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> Piper, > I'm not speaking from experience yet, but from what I've heard and the track > record Thrusmaster has with driving wheels, the new Force GT from TM looks > like the best bang for the buck out there. I've got one on advanced order > that was supposed to be in today, but it wont be in until tomorrow..... I > tried the MS FF wheel and was NOT impressed. The clamping mechanism was > inadequate, and the feel of it was a bit on the low-rent side. However, if > you're looking for a game that made even THAT wheel feel like a million > bucks, Need for Speed III was greast with FF enabled! I'll let you know how > the TM Force GT is after tomorrownight! I'm dying to get my hands on that > wheel! > Ray > >Since my wife and inlaws find it easier to just give me vouchers at > >Christmas and with a 44th birthday looming, hence another round of > >vouchers, I'm in the market for a force feedback wheel, (FFB) > >I have an excellent analog wheel built by Ferraro design in Melbourne, > >Aust, however the idea of improving the experience through a good FFB > >intrigues me. > >My experience to date has been a trial with the Logitech Wingman force > >and Powerslide and GPL with the Microsoft effort. > >The wingman experience made me wonder if the power was switched of > >whereas the MS wheel in GPL felt "loose". > >The Saitek (spelling?) wheel is also available in Australia however > >I'm afraid I still like a bit of style and the thing looks goofy. > >I'm told we have to wait a couple of months before the ActLabs FFB > >wheel is available in Australia. Perhaps with improvements to both the > >paddles and with USB and the ability to assign different axis to brake > >and throttle that I've read about. > >Question time: > >1. The pedals on my present wheels are really good, I mean, really > >good. Has anyone tried to wire up different pedals to any FFB wheel. > >Is it possible?. > >2. Seriously, just how good are these FFB wheels in non FFB games ie > >GPL. Any recommendations. > >3. The experience with the Logitech wheel and Powerslide was very > >offputting, surely these things are designed to give some feedback to > >help driving not just to feel a bump or pull occasionally. Was > >something amiss or is this as good as it gets, (with the Logitech > >wheel at least). > >4. If you wanted to really showcase FFB and its benefits what > >game/wheel combination would you recommend. > >Thankyou for any input. > >Rgds > >- > >Piper1

-- In a feeble attempt to thwart spammers I have altered my email address. Remove the obvious bit before replying. "Life is complex- It has real and imaginary parts.

<snip> I haven't done anything personally at this level, but almost any configuration is possible, if you give the effort and put up with the risk of tearing up your new equipment. I like to take the time to open up my computer toys and see what's inside, and I don't think it would be a problem to at least look at the innards of the setup and consider it. Yes, YMMV. My main use for my Logitech WFF is GPL. That is priority number one for my decision, and the Logitech is excellent at that. It's plainly the best low-end (< $200) wheel I have tried, force or non. I've never handled a Thomas Super of any flavor, so I don't know how it stacks up, but I would guess that the TSW or any of the other high-end wheels would blow the cheapos away. <shrug> All I know is that the Logitech is the best wheel, force or non, that I've handled. I don't know if it's the USB or what, but this thing in GPL feels smooooth. I also like the sensitivity adjustment on all the axes. I do *not* like the fact that I have to run the Logitech "Profiler" program at all times in the system tray, but I can live with it. I also like the fact that the Wingman Team is always improving the software, and listening to users. I also haven't tried the MS wheel, or the Act Labs wheel, but I've read good things about the Act Labs Force RS. I've tried the Saitek, returned it the next day. I've tried the Interact V4, returned it the next day. I can't prove it, but I'm pretty confident that I could have beaten the V4's force performance by having my wife stand by me and wiggle the desk. It's non-force performance and feel was lacking also. In my opinion, this is as good as it gets. To be blunt, force feedback technology, at present, is simply laughable. Sorry to sound negative, but I have yet to have a sim or a game be substantially improved by FF technology. I just want a good wheel, force or non; maybe in 10 years when FF is actually a benefit to sims and games, I'll worry about FF. Maybe by then, there'll be a seat slider, too. Even just a little left and right motion on the seat, done correctly, would be a great help, no? :) Colin McRae, and that's a big stretch. Give me something to showcase first, then I'll showcase it for you. No matter how much you polish a turd... I'm not trying to bash FF here, just my honest opinion. Some day, FF tech will be awesome, I'm sure. IMHO, it's just not right now. <silly rant> Personally, I have a problem with pc wheels in general. I can't name one wheel that I have tried that did not have something awfully wrong with it's design. Maybe I'm just being unreasonable, maybe I ought to just build my own, and shut my trap. I just wish that, instead of focusing on a gimmick like FF, some manufacturer would design a very good non-FF wheel, for less than US$200. This, IMHO, has yet to be done. </silly rant> Although I think this Logitech is the closest yet. Has anyone tried the non-force Logitech Wingman? Brett

>>4. If you wanted to really showcase FFB and its benefits what >>game/wheel combination would you recommend. >Colin McRae, and that's a big stretch. Give me something to showcase >first, then I'll showcase it for you. No matter how much you polish a >turd... Hmmm...the FF in Colin McRae is good?? Maybe it's just me (Force RS) but the damn thing just keeps jiggling and nothing more. Even in the air, the wheel jiggles....certainly not the best of effects. Plus the frames intermittently freeze, and that's only when using FF. Should I be looking for a patch or something?? I've already applied the one Codemasters posted. I thought F1RS had the best FF effects, MGPRS2 seems to suck right now, I even edited the FF files and still think F1RS is/was better. You feel the rumble strips, harder to turn the wheel when going faster, bumps on the track (Suzuka and Argentia spring to mind...), jiggles when upshifting, etc. MGPRS2 is just plain weaker, they patched it TWICE before it even got the rumble-strip effect fixed...don't even get me started about the BS with the AI laptimes... Jeff

I'm using a Logitech WingMan Formula Force in conjunction with pedals from a Thrustmaster T2, but I haven't rewired anything yet. The pedals for the WingMan FF just plain suck. I could not get the hang of them--there's just too little travel. I tried to drive this way for several hours, and became frustrated enough to want to return the unit. I know you can replace the springs (and I still might try this), but that won't fix the travel issue. Instead of returning the wheel, I connected the Thrustmaster pedals (connected to a CH Flightstick Pro joystick, my former means of sim control) to my machine's gameport and left the Wingman on the USB port. GPL allows you to use two different game controllers in the game. I just press the Thrustmaster pedals instead of the lousy WingMan FF pedals. The WingMan FF pedals just take up space on the floor for now--they're necessary for the WingMan wheel. This setup made a significant difference in my lap times! I also discovered that in my CH Flightstick/Thrustmaster configuration, I wasn't getting the full input range with my pedals--for example, in GPL the brakes would never lock. The AI cars would ALWAYS outbrake me (and here I thought I was just a sh*tty driver!). In my current setup (WingMan + TM pedals), I can lock the brakes and/or outbrake those bastards. IMHO, the WingMan FF wheel gives very precise control and feels good in your hands, even in non-FF games like GPL. The paddle shifters are about perfect, too. The other 4 buttons on the wheel are handy as well. The WingMan software is useful. << SNIP >>> You're welcome! -- * ------------------------------------ * St. Paul, MN