Which 3D card, aka, Eric Busch, where are you?

Now that Christmas has come and gone, I'm not the only one asking advice on which 3D card to buy. I made the trek to all the local stores today...as usual, the sheer number of choices is mind-boggling. Voodoo, Voodoo2, Rendition, Banshee...how the heck can we tell what is best for our systems? Personally, I only have interest in (make that time for) Nascar2 (and N3 in the future) and my new hobby, Viper Racing. But how do I know if I'm getting the best bang for my buck in the way of a 3D card? I have a lowly ( last year = rockin') 200mhz Pentium w/ 64 mb ram, but will be upgrading in the next few months to the fastest PII processor I can find. Does anyone have a suggestion on a "can't miss" board? Stop the madness (and thanks in advance), LC

Thanks for the info...I wound up ordering, on the advice of a friend, the Diamond Monster Fusion Banshee card...I will post a review once it arrives in the hopes of helping some other poor lost soul (like me!). As for overclocking, I have absolutely no experience in this technique- is there a newsgroup, faq, or web site that could bring me up to speed? My system is a Dell XPS P200S, no PII, no MMX...maybe it's not even a candidate for overclocking. It does interest me though, and since my office is usually about 45 degrees, overheating shouldn't be a problem <g>. Thanks again, LC >Okay, Papy is one of the few companies that is still paying attention to the >Rendition proprietary api. If you hadn't said N2 (GPL falls in the same >group), I'd have said forget Rendition. However, it would be a good card for >you *now*. But I still consider it a dead end as it is old technology and I >doubt we'll see much more support of Rredline (even N99 only supports it in >DOS, correct??). On the positive, you can find them cheap (though the >Hercules Thriller 8MB is IMHO, too expensive). And they compare acceptably to >the new whiz-bang chips on "low end" systems (sorry!). Still, for >(near) future considerations, I still couldn't recommend the present >Renditions. >You didn't mention the Nvidia TNT. This is an excellent card, by all >accounts, but it doesn't support 3dfx's Glide. Glide I still consider to be a >must have for sims. Though I've read the added Glide support in N2 pales >compared to the built-in Rendition support. >3dfx's Glide supported: >Voodoo1 is old technology that you should be able to get real cheap, say ~$50 >for a 4MB one. My 6MB Pure 3D may soon be available. It won't compare to a >TNT, but it is cheap and does have Glide support. Again, I consider it a >short term solution. You do know that it is a 3D card only that requires you

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>to have a 2D card with it right? It works via a "pass thru" cable that may >result in a small amount of image degradation. >Ditto on the 3D-only for the V2, but it's a lot faster, and now reasonably >cheap (OEM's for $120 or so). Get the 12MB for future considerations. I'd >strongly consider this one. >Banshee is also tempting. 2D/3D, higher resolutions, 16MB, $90 from

Guillemot >(after mail-in rebate). >BTW, Nascar1999 supports the 3dfx right out of the box. I have it running >here just fine on my 200/250MMX with V1. >>I have a lowly ( last year = rockin') 200mhz Pentium w/ 64 mb ram, but will >>be upgrading in the next few months to the fastest PII processor I can find. >Have you tried oc'ing your 200? I have an MMX that I have running quite >happily at 250 (83*3).

>Now that Christmas has come and gone, I'm not the only one asking advice on >which 3D card to buy. Correct, see the thread "Re: Voodoo 2, Banshee, or wait??". Read, guess, roll the dice :-) Okay, Papy is one of the few companies that is still paying attention to the Rendition proprietary api. If you hadn't said N2 (GPL falls in the same group), I'd have said forget Rendition. However, it would be a good card for you *now*. But I still consider it a dead end as it is old technology and I doubt we'll see much more support of Rredline (even N99 only supports it in DOS, correct??). On the positive, you can find them cheap (though the Hercules Thriller 8MB is IMHO, too expensive). And they compare acceptably to the new whiz-bang chips on "low end" systems (sorry!). Still, for (near) future considerations, I still couldn't recommend the present Renditions. You didn't mention the Nvidia TNT. This is an excellent card, by all accounts, but it doesn't support 3dfx's Glide. Glide I still consider to be a must have for sims. Though I've read the added Glide support in N2 pales compared to the built-in Rendition support. 3dfx's Glide supported: Voodoo1 is old technology that you should be able to get real cheap, say ~$50 for a 4MB one. My 6MB Pure 3D may soon be available. It won't compare to a TNT, but it is cheap and does have Glide support. Again, I consider it a short term solution. You do know that it is a 3D card only that requires you to have a 2D card with it right? It works via a "pass thru" cable that may result in a small amount of image degradation. Ditto on the 3D-only for the V2, but it's a lot faster, and now reasonably cheap (OEM's for $120 or so). Get the 12MB for future considerations. I'd strongly consider this one. Banshee is also tempting. 2D/3D, higher resolutions, 16MB, $90 from Guillemot (after mail-in rebate). BTW, Nascar1999 supports the 3dfx right out of the box. I have it running here just fine on my 200/250MMX with V1. Have you tried oc'ing your 200? I have an MMX that I have running quite happily at 250 (83*3).

There's no such thing as a 'can't miss' board (make one and you'll be a rich man). Though they wouldn't do anything for N2/NR1999/etc., for an all-around card if it was up to me I'd get a TNT now or wait a bit for the ATI Rage128. - Eric

Well, IMO, the Rendition is on its way to the video graveyard soon. Very few apps are supporting it, and expect none to by mid-99 and later releases. As far as the best combo of 2d/3d/3dfx cards go, I would go with the TNT and a Voodoo2. I know it is a bit costly, near the 300$ U.S. range for both. The excellent d3d/openGL operation of the TNT coupled with the Voodoo2 glide/3dfx will give you about all you need for any app. As far as the heat probs mentioned with the TNT chipsets, I have found no problem with it in a well ventilated mid-tower set up. The advantage of having these two boards now is that when you do upgrade, you will have great functionality in all 3d APIs. I am not sure if you have an AGP slot in your current machine, but it is a great advantage to use AGP in the new 100mb bus P2 systems. If you don't have AGP in your current system, wait on the TNT card until you get the new system. The Voodoo will work just fine with your current card for now. One other advantage is that nVidia is currently upgrading the TNT, and the new card should be out in the next couple months. Regards, Ed Medlin www.flyairwest.com Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 191942 Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/191942 Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen

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>Now that Christmas has come and gone, I'm not the only one asking advice on >which 3D card to buy. I made the trek to all the local stores today...as >usual, the sheer number of choices is mind-boggling. Voodoo, Voodoo2, >Rendition, Banshee...how the heck can we tell what is best for our systems? >Personally, I only have interest in (make that time for) Nascar2 (and N3 in >the future) and my new hobby, Viper Racing. But how do I know if I'm >getting the best bang for my buck in the way of a 3D card? >I have a lowly ( last year = rockin') 200mhz Pentium w/ 64 mb ram, but will >be upgrading in the next few months to the fastest PII processor I can

find. >Does anyone have a suggestion on a "can't miss" board? >Stop the madness (and thanks in advance), >LC

Sorry, there will be no N3 specifics at this time... - Eric

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>>Personally, I only have interest in (make that time for) Nascar2 (and N3 in >>the future) and my new hobby, Viper Racing. But how do I know if I'm >>getting the best bang for my buck in the way of a 3D card? >Okay, Papy is one of the few companies that is still paying attention to the >Rendition proprietary api. If you hadn't said N2 (GPL falls in the same >group), I'd have said forget Rendition. However, it would be a good card for >you *now*. But I still consider it a dead end as it is old technology and I >doubt we'll see much more support of Rredline (even N99 only supports it in >DOS, correct??). On the positive, you can find them cheap (though the >Hercules Thriller 8MB is IMHO, too expensive). And they compare acceptably to >the new whiz-bang chips on "low end" systems (sorry!). Still, for >(near) future considerations, I still couldn't recommend the present >Renditions.

I'd assume NR99 only had a DOS implimentation for Rendition because it was already done for N2, and NR99 was largely a matter of reusing N2 core code with minor additions (ie: trucks and new tracks, not major changes to the code). They already had a functional DOS Rendition version, was it worth the time to create a Win version? (Presumably they worked on the 3Dfx implimentation to bring it up to their standards, since it wasn't as polished as the Rendition.) OTOH, they did take the time to use Rendition for GPL (in Windows), which will be the basis for N3. So, if we do get Eric to tune in, maybe he can tell us what graphics APIs will be supported by N3?... Rendition's days appear to be limited (in the Papyrus world), the question is how soon? BTW, what APIs does Viper support? "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark