GPL undrivable for GP2 player

Compared to GP2, which I've been racing happily since its release with either a CH Virtual Pilot yoke or my V3 wheel, Grand Prix Legends is just undrivable; the steering control is way too sensitive. In GPL the cars drive like they're steering with the rear wheels. I should also note that I never had any luck with the Papyrus racing games. In ICR and ICR2, the steering feel is just screwy. I can sorta get the ovals to work, but on the road course the car is impossible to control. What can I do to get GPL to have steering feel like GP2? Thank you, -Bob Heathcote

I've never driven GP2, but doesn't that game have modern cars (wings, spoilers, and other ground effects) in it? What you have to realize for GPL is that these cars have almost as much power as the modern cars, but have absolutely no ground effects at all. McClaren's son even said that today's F1 drivers are wimps compared to the guys that had to muscle these older cars around the track (he recently drove his dad's 1967 Eagle). So, as long as you remain aware that the car has much more power than it could possibly use in a turn, you'll be fine. Further, I think it might even improve your driving in other sims. -- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS Director http://members.home.net/jms1/igps.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 07:06:15 -0800, "Bob Heathcote"

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>Compared to GP2, which I've been racing happily since its release with >either a CH Virtual Pilot yoke or my V3 wheel, Grand Prix Legends is just >undrivable; the steering control is way too sensitive. >In GPL the cars drive like they're steering with the rear wheels. >I should also note that I never had any luck with the Papyrus racing games. >In ICR and ICR2, the steering feel is just screwy. I can sorta get the >ovals to work, but on the road course the car is impossible to control. >What can I do to get GPL to have steering feel like GP2? >Thank you, >-Bob Heathcote

It was a shock for me at first too, Bob. However, practice makes perfect. The car is always going to feel a bit loose (like ICR) due to the absence of downforce and the hard skinny tires. I ran my toe-in up to +0.250 in the front and back until I practiced enough to be able to blast down the straights without fishtailing out of control due to ever increasing steering corrections. It takes most people at least a week of practice before they can get around the course at 10% off the race pace without crashing. However, if you never got comfortable with ICR2 on road courses, you're probably not going to be happy with GPL at all. Rgds, Mark R.

Hi Bob, > Compared to GP2, which I've been racing happily since its release with > either a CH Virtual Pilot yoke or my V3 wheel, Grand Prix Legends is just > undrivable; the steering control is way too sensitive. You can adjust the overall sensitivity by the Controls / linear slider. Move the slider towards non-linear for reduced sensitivity (depends a lot on the type of controller you have) Wheels want more linearity Joysticks want more non-linearity Throttle control is important as you can induce oversteer/understeer by applying or removing throttle. Are you driving the Ferrari? Hehe. It wanders a lot. Try the Coventry or Murasama -- you can get Alison Hines setups at gpl.gamestats.com/vroc. Follow the cool stuff link. These last issues were answered well by Mark R. Just keep in mind you have no aerodynamics in GPL. You can't turn corners like GP2 with huge downforces. > Thank you, > -Bob Heathcote -------- Jason Monds "My other car is a Ferrari" (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

% However, if you never got comfortable with ICR2 on road courses, % you're probably not going to be happy with GPL at all. However, at least in GPL there are added benefits like the 3D***pit. I never could truthfully say that I could "feel" the car in ICR2, but for some strange reason, I have developed a real feel for how the car is behaving in GPL. It just comes with practice and the old adage about going slower to go faster. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hi Bob, I read your message on rec.autos.simulators and I was happy to find at last someone else has trouble driving ICR2, just like me. I bought ICR2 as soon as I had my first PC, and although I enjoyed the great graphics (before I had been playing GP1 day and night on the ATARI ST), I never figured out how to steer the cars. The game just always seemed to over-react to steering input. I am not talking about the car feeling a bit loose, because of lack of grip or downforce, but even at slow pace its NOT possible to steer accurate. On the ovals I could enjoy some racing, but when I was amongst traffic, I just had to be lucky not to hit other cars. On street courses it was virtually impossible to race. And don't get me wrong: I'm a pro, I always play on ACE level settings, without help-functions. First I thought my system was not ok. I tried everything. Changed soundcard, bought a separate gamecard, bought a T2 steering wheel, increased RAM, ... but nothing seemed to help. I got a 266 MMX now, 128MB SDRAM, 4MB video, and its still impossible to race at street courses like Surfers Paradise. Its just impossible to steer precise. When GP2 came along, it just seemed to work ok! No steering problem there. I enjoyed many nights of ACE-level, full distance races. And I took the Championship very easily. I wrote about this on the newsgroup a few times, but all those idiots just claimed that "indycars were hard to drive" Indycars are different from F1 cars", as if I didnt know: I am a racing freak. ICR2 just feels like driving a boat , and thats NOT simulation, ok? Its a fact: the steering input to all Sierra racing games is just NOT good. Right now, I occasionally race NASCAR2. Its fun for some laps on the ovals, but its just not really possible to GET IN CONTROL. I am afraid that GPL will have the same problem. karl

On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 07:06:15 -0800, "Bob Heathcote" >Compared to GP2, which I've been racing happily since its release with >either a CH Virtual Pilot yoke or my V3 wheel, Grand Prix Legends is just >undrivable; the steering control is way too sensitive. >In GPL the cars drive like they're steering with the rear wheels. <snip> I was a long time GP2 pilot as well, and I can relate to what you're saying Bob. I think the bigger isssue here is downforce, actually lack thereof. As GP2 pilots we learned how to use downforce to our advantage. To be fast in GP2, you must understand your downforce situation at different speeds and capitalize upon it. That downforce allows for lots of maneuvers just not possible in a no/low downforce car. In GPL, it's a whole new ballgame. I actually stuck with it and it can become great fun attempting to master a whole new driving style and horsepower management style. The steering you will get used to, you may want to fiddle with the controller settings, I had to fiddle for sometime to get the car to settle down from minor twitches of the wheel. The other poster was right too, some cars wander more than others, the Ferrari particularly notorious for ponderous and extensive travel (which actually makes it my favorite car, for predictability purposes). A GP2 car, correctly setup in the hands of an experienced pilot, has very little suspension travel as it's pressed into the ground via downforce, and also has underbody aerodynamics to help keep the car settled. These GPL bad boys don't. The real laugher is going back to GP2 after driving GPL for a week or so. Holy cow, it's like I forgot how to drive a car with downforce LOL. I found myself gingerly plodding through corners I used to take at on-the-razor-edge-limit speed, and end up laughing outloud. I lost about 12 seconds off my usual Spa times in GP2 and it took me about a half hour and many fits of laughing and mental adjustments to recover my Spa times in GP2. My mind could not adust to the concept of having all that downforce at my disposable, and the ability to smash the throttle to full on exit from medium and fast speed corners. Very, very, very funny it was. Complete brain-lock at times LOL. Good luck. Give GPL a chance, it's great fun if/when you get some things figured out. -=Hammer remove x fer email reply

I was also a very fanatic GP2 racer from the time of GP2's release until GPL came along, but I can't say that I have any problems with GPL's steering. Have you tried adjusting the "Steering Sensitivity" slider in the control options menu? For me two thirds of the way to the left works well. If this is not the problem then you might try modifying the setups to use less degrees steering lock, if this doesn't help then I don't know what will. The steering sensitivity works fine for me with an old T2 wheel. As much as I loved GP2 and admired the amazing physics modeling for it's time, I'm afraid that GPL's physics is a big step forward from GP2, and it will probably just take you a while to get used to the extra realism, but trust me that once you do, it will be well worth it, nothing like online racing at full realism in GPL. The way you describe the steering response actually reminds me of how F1RS always felt to me, kind of like trying to steer a train with rear steering. Hope this helps. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

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>Compared to GP2, which I've been racing happily since its release with >either a CH Virtual Pilot yoke or my V3 wheel, Grand Prix Legends is just >undrivable; the steering control is way too sensitive. >In GPL the cars drive like they're steering with the rear wheels. >I should also note that I never had any luck with the Papyrus racing games. >In ICR and ICR2, the steering feel is just screwy. I can sorta get the >ovals to work, but on the road course the car is impossible to control. >What can I do to get GPL to have steering feel like GP2? >Thank you, >-Bob Heathcote

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> >Compared to GP2, which I've been racing happily since its release with > >either a CH Virtual Pilot yoke or my V3 wheel, Grand Prix Legends is > just > >undrivable; the steering control is way too sensitive. > >In GPL the cars drive like they're steering with the rear wheels. > >I should also note that I never had any luck with the Papyrus racing > games. > >In ICR and ICR2, the steering feel is just screwy. I can sorta get the > >ovals to work, but on the road course the car is impossible to control. > >What can I do to get GPL to have steering feel like GP2? > I've never driven GP2, but doesn't that game have modern cars (wings, > spoilers, and other ground effects) in it? What you have to realize for > GPL is that these cars have almost as much power as the modern cars, but > have absolutely no ground effects at all. > McClaren's son even said that today's F1 drivers are wimps compared to > the guys that had to muscle these older cars around the track (he > recently drove his dad's 1967 Eagle). > So, as long as you remain aware that the car has much more power than it > could possibly use in a turn, you'll be fine. Further, I think it might > even improve your driving in other sims.

Absolutely correct. I used GP2 for a couple of years, an excellant sim for modern 'winged' cars. I had the same problem of steering control with GPL, but once you realise you have to 'steer' with the throttle and the steering wheel, master the technique, it's tremendous fun and very rewarding! As John states, GPL also improves your driving in the other sims (GP2). Practice, practice, then practice some more. Dave Hawnt UK

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:52:36 -0700, Jason Monds <lotta snip> Oh really... having owned a half-dozen Vettes over the years, and always lusting for a 308, then a 328, and then a heck why not F40, and finally let's shoot the moon an F50!.... are they as cool as they sound and look? <vbg> I'm sure they are, just looking for some testosterone confirmation (not to be confused with the Testarossa, of course ;-) Back on topic, but probably not yet within the realm of the original poster, there is a freeware utility out there in web-land to get rid of the 5% deadzone in Microsoft's joystick (wheel) driver... this tightens things up quite a bit but does eliminate surprises (altho it promotes white knuckles ;-) Rgds, Mark R.

PRACTICE!!!! Mea***er >What can I do to get GPL to have steering feel like GP2? >Thank you, >-Bob Heathcote

<<I have developed a real feel for how the car is behaving in GPL. It just comes with practice and the old adage about going slower to go faster.>> ever get vertigo when you have a really bad crash? LOL I've done it T

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> On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:52:36 -0700, Jason Monds > <lotta snip> > >"My other car is a Ferrari" > Oh really... having owned a half-dozen Vettes over the years, and > always lusting for a 308, then a 328, and then a heck why not > F40, and finally let's shoot the moon an F50!.... are they as > cool as they sound and look? <vbg>

Well, not really but GPL allows me to virtually own one ;-) I'm working on the Murasama right now -- looks like another week I'll be able to start the Eagle. Check out my non trail-braking setups (less understeer) at: http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl There is a utility to adjust the deadzone in DirectX. Unfortunately I don't have a URL off the top of my head. Try some popular sim sites or search engine on dxdzfix. -- -------- Jason Monds "My other car is a Ferrari" (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:25:05 +0100, "Karl Zosel" >Hi Bob, >I read your message on rec.autos.simulators and I was happy to find at last someone else has trouble driving ICR2, just like me. (snipped) >karl Hi Karl, Are you sure you have the steering option set to linear? Non-linear is aimed at digital joystick or keyboard users mainly, but renders the car almost undriveable when you use an analog control device. A. Renault

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> Compared to GP2, which I've been racing happily since its release > with > either a CH Virtual Pilot yoke or my V3 wheel, Grand Prix Legends > is just > undrivable; the steering control is way too sensitive. > In GPL the cars drive like they're steering with the rear wheels. > What can I do to get GPL to have steering feel like GP2?

Hi, I was/am also a big fan of GP2, as well as GPL. It is a big change driving GPL after all those years of GP2, and does take a while to get used to, However, I would recommend that you perservere with GPL, as it will provide great rewards once you get the hang of it. A couple of points to note, I'm not familiar with either of your controllers, if they are digital you will need to put the steering sensitivity slider bar (in one of the GPL options screens) all the way over to the right. However, if the controllers are analogue, then you will want to place the slider bar somewhere between the middle position and the far left position. This will affect how the steering feels. Also make sure you are calibrating the wheel properly (both in win9x and in the GPL calibration screen). One last point, select the direct input controller type, and not the other one, I think these points may help you. I hope you overcome this steering problem, as GPL really is worth it, practice make perfect. 8-) *Peter* #:-)

LOL! Had the same experience when driving again F1RS after playing GPL for some weeks. Stepped on the brakes for a 4th-gear-turn, and suddenly was down to 40 km/h <g>. It was unbelievable how *late* I could brake (even _in_ a corner ;), and it was a new experience that my car did exactly what I wanted it to do ;-) Anyway, I went back to GPL after some laps - F1RS didn't seem to be a challenge any longer ;) Ack. Daniel -- Daniel Lichtenberger, Vienna/Austria