GPL times...whats your take?

I was just looking at the most recent times for hotlaps and was wondering something. At almost everytrack it seems that there is at least one time faster than the real fast lap from ' 67. The exception being the Ring. The actual fast time came from Jim Clark at 8:04.1 and the fatsest lap ive seen on the board is a 8:05.xx. Anyone think a sub 8 minute lap is possible here. I think it is but it might be a long time coming. Just curious as to what some other people think. Chris

I'd say it's because of the nature of the challenge. The real drivers could no doubt have gone quicker with a multitude of instant mouse-activated setup changes, zillions of laps to dial the cars in, and oh yeah, no fear of death! So the times on most courses in the game are more physics-defined. The 'Ring is more of a memorization problem. If all the turns on the ring were getting taken as close to the limit as the ones at say, Zandvoort or Monza, sub-eights would be no sweat. Hell, maybe sub-sevens. Not by me, though. I focus MY feeble mind on the simpler courses and save the ring for scenic cruises and just scaring myself silly flying down those long hills...... Steve B. remove "edy" from address for email

I think sub-seven-minute laps are a possibility for the really quick guys out there like Wolfgang Woeger, Ian Lake, and now maybe Sasa Mencinger. They have been turning some amazing laps recently and I'm sure one if not all of them could do it. (I personally have never driven the Ring in anything other than a Ferrari and my PB now stands at 8m18). Cheers! -- Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

Im sure you will see a sub 8 minute lap within 3 weeks, when the GPL world series races the ring. Wolfgang, Lake and Sandman will have a whole week prior of nothing but driving around there in training mode looking for every tenth they can find. Todd. >I was just looking at the most recent times for hotlaps and was wondering >something. At almost everytrack it seems that there is at least one time >faster than the real fast lap from ' 67. The exception being the Ring. The >actual fast time came from Jim Clark at 8:04.1 and the fatsest lap ive seen on >the board is a 8:05.xx. Anyone think a sub 8 minute lap is possible here. I >think it is but it might be a long time coming. Just curious as to what some >other people think. >Chris

That will be very interesting to see - the main problem with the Ring as I see it isn't the memorization of the track, but the sheer length of the track stops you getting into any sort of "rhythm" in contrast to a track such as Zandvoort.Just one mistake on any of the 174 corners will cost you several seconds - more on a fast section, this means that a 95% driving style will probably pay off over a grand prix length race. You never know though with the fast boys - maybe they can keep up 100% pace and not make any mistakes! - Michael (Best so far: 8:20.2)

Oops, I meant sub-eight-minute laps :-) -- Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

In reality, Jacky Ickx holds the record with a sub 8-min lap he drove in 1969 (with wings, but on the original Ring). After the track was made safer (and faster) in 1970/71, Niki Lauda did the only sub 7 min lap ever, in practise for the 1976 German GP. I'm quit esure that the 7 min barrier can not be broken within GPL (no wings, old track layout) without any cheats (like track, grip or performance editing). -- _____ /_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d I XT /~~~~ I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro \____/\__I_I http://matthead.home.pages.de/

I agree completely. I also think having a sim reflect accurate lap times is more a matter of how the creators tune it rather than any direct correlation between real life and the sim. In other words, if you modeled the track and cars' weight, power, and traction 'by the numbers' as best you could I don't think you'd find people were getting accurate lap times. You then would have to go back and subjectively tune things like amounts of traction and wind drag until it was "just right." rob.

I'm now fairly sure it can be done, just through the practice that the quickest guys will be doing in preparation for the upcoming race. Just through practice alone I have taken 12s off my Nurburgring time with the Ferrari, down from 8m27 to 8m15, and there's still another 2 or 3s to come. With a Lotus, I reckon guys like Wolfgang et al could get down to about 7m55. Cheers! -- Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

That same year Lauda almost died at that track too. He came back and missed winning the World Championship by less then a point if i am correct. Dave

I reckon it can be done, I've got a best of 8m20 in the Lotus , and that was with a slow off track excursion at Bergwerk. I find that when you've had a good first half of the lap, I tend to drive a bit too "safe" on the second half so as not to throw it all away - do you do this? If someone goes 100% all the way round I'm sure they could go sub 8 minute. - Michael

Yeah, this Sasa guy is a friend of mine and I was quite shocked when he told me that he's using a Sidewinder joystick to play GPL... ...it will be interesting to see if he can pull it off on 174 corners of Nuerburgring, because joysticks aren't as accurate as wheels.... Tadej Krevh

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> >Just curious as to what some > >other people think. > I think sub-seven-minute laps are a possibility for the really quick > guys out there like Wolfgang Woeger, Ian Lake, and now maybe Sasa > Mencinger. They have been turning some amazing laps recently and I'm > sure one if not all of them could do it. (I personally have never driven > the Ring in anything other than a Ferrari and my PB now stands at 8m18). > Cheers! > -- > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824

I go 100% all the way around. I have to hit shift-R alot but i do it. Best time so far is a 9:06 with the Eagle and thats with one shift-R and 2 spins.

>I agree completely. I also think having a sim reflect accurate lap times is >more a matter of how the creators tune it rather than any direct >correlation between real life and the sim. In other words, if you modeled > the track and cars' weight, power, and traction 'by the numbers' as best >you could I don't think you'd find people were getting accurate lap times. You do to an extent, but although some sims are more complex than others, none come close to modelling everything. For that reason laptimes can never truly reflect real life without being "tweaked" to do so. Then too you have the fact that ; a) We can practice much more than the real drivers could or did. Jackie Stewart said he never drove one more lap around the Nurburgring than he absolutely had to, and here we are having hotlap contests for fun! b) We need not be worried about killing ourselves, whereas the real drivers always had to take a margin. c) The times are tuned such that it is "possible" for you to run a time similar to Jim Clark, since otherwise people would be upset with the game. This is irrespective of how close your car performs to Clark's or, more importantly, how is your talent relative to his. You can see that given "parity of equipment" and "parity of talent" it should always be possible for a sim driver to eclipse a real drivers times, and this is underlined by the times being tuned to allow that. Cheers! John

Sounds like you're going 110% all the way round:-) - Michael