will anyone make one of these anytime soon?
% will anyone make one of these anytime soon?
I don't know, but I bet some of the of wheel makers read this newsgroup
so let's start some "I would like to see's". . .
Gated shifter
Something better for the the pedals than simple spring tension.
(Pneumatic? and adjustable)
Programmable buttons for keyboard macros (would be great for setting up
pit stops in N2000 -- and Shift-R'ing at the 'Ring in GPL!).
Dead-zone settings for the wheel...
Adjustable lock-to-lock ratio...
Selectable axis for use in some poorly programmed games/sims.
Oh, and like you suggested, a clutch pedal....
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Replies to MEC's points in brackets
>% will anyone make one of these anytime soon?
>I don't know, but I bet some of the of wheel makers read this newsgroup
>so let's start some "I would like to see's". . .
>Gated shifter
(sounds good but wouldn't this require the makers of every sim to write
specifically for this? i.e.: buttons 1 through 5 = gears 1-->5 instead of
button 1=shift up, button 2=shift down. Not that I'm against it, it would be
great in those sims that use a gate shifter such as Nascar or GPL)
(use a simplified version of a brake master cylinder with a pressure sensor
potentiometer and a small adjustable air space to tailor air spring
resistance; brake modulation would then be more on pedal resistance than
ankle angle)
(cool, something to occupy that great expanse of black plastic on top of my
TM Nas Pro. More button=good thing)
(yup,wouldn't mind something like a pot trimmer either)
(Yes, to all of above)
PLUS;
1):Something like a hat switch that falls readily to thumb so you could
easily check your left and right views
2); Use of optical pots( or some other technology that doesn't involve parts
rubbing and wearing against each other)
3); Adjustable pedal separation distance (big foot here :) )
Big question is how much is all the above worth to you? I think $200 US
would be the price point for the average simmer though there will always be
premium customers. Could be wrong though.
Can't give up my Wingman's paddles. Yeah, it's blasphemy for a type 49 or
Winston Cup car, I know. But heck, I'm even reaching for 'em in my MR2 now.
Saw an F355 Ferrari with some at Road Atlanta a couple of months ago. Grand
Theft Auto? Hmmmmm..........
adjustable)
ECCI has a pressure-activated brake.....Santa, please.......
stops in N2000 -- and Shift-R'ing at the 'Ring in GPL!).
Logitech's Wingman Profiler already does this. Not positive, but I think the
ACTLabs may as well, and it has a BUNCH more buttons.
Wingman Profiler....ditto....(sensitivity and deadzone for wheel and pedals)
Besides, it's easy to hex-edit dinput.dll to lower or eliminate the deadzone.
Highly recommended for wheel users.
Gotta go for the big-bucks ECCI for this. Unless you're handy with tools.
Wingman Profiler again, globally in software for now (switchable without
rebooting), but being incorporated into the game profiler for a driver update,
so it'll do it automatically.
High-end or homemade only so far, unless you use a TM GP1 wheel with CH pedals;
then you can use an analog paddle for the clutch. (hey, it works for
Villeneuve) But the engagement band is so narrow that it's not far removed from
a button-clutch.
It's all out there now; just not in one wheel. Yet.
My additions: (both avail. w/ECCI)
1) adjustable centering tension for non-FF wheels.
2) fluid damping for fast wheel motions, again for non-FF wheels.
My guess would be that the evolution and ultimate *** of FF will sort out
a lot of this in the not-too-distant future. But DO let 'em know what you
want, as they'll make anything they think will sell.
Steve B.
remove "edy" from address for email
% Replies to MEC's points in brackets
% >% will anyone make one of these anytime soon?
% >
% >I don't know, but I bet some of the of wheel makers read this newsgroup
% >so let's start some "I would like to see's". . .
% >
% >Gated shifter
% (sounds good but wouldn't this require the makers of every sim to write
% specifically for this? i.e.: buttons 1 through 5 = gears 1-->5 instead of
% button 1=shift up, button 2=shift down. Not that I'm against it, it would be
% great in those sims that use a gate shifter such as Nascar or GPL)
With the advent of USB, I think all of this can be handled by the driver
software for the controller and not necessarily game dependant.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
USB actually wouldn't have anything to do with it. USB is simply a type of connector - the
programming challenges behind what you're suggesting exist no matter how the device is
connected.
The problem is that the game doesn't know anything about the wheel. All the game knows is
that it is receiving commands from DirectInput, which it translates into different actions.
There is no "universal standard" for "shift up" that the wheel's driver could send to the
game - it can only send "switch 1 open" "switch 1 closed" etc. and the game has to decide
what to do with the value "switch 1 closed." We could keep track of the position of the
gearshift and when it is moved from 1 to 2 we could send a signal, but this would require a
set of precise actions from the user (always start the game with the wheel in first gear,
etc.) that would be very easy to for the user to forget/not do and then cause the wheel to
"break" or stop working properly. Also, there would be great difficulty in programming the
game to accept the custom input from the user's standpoint - figuring out how to translate
"first gear" through "sixth gear" and reverse into "shift up" and "shift down" would be
difficult for most users. Top this off with the default settings for each game using
different buttons for shifting, and you've got a nightmare. You could do this all through
keyboard translation, but that would require the user to go into the game and program shift
up and down to keys (like Q or something) so that their shifter would work. How many people
would be able to figure that out without reading the documentation? :)
The upshot is that it could probably be done, but until games support individual gears on
individual buttons, it's unlikely there will be a robust, simple solution. Even advanced
software would have a difficult time working around the inherent difficulties of the problem.
-Chris
Quoted text (10 lines)
> <snip> > With the advent of USB, I think all of this can be handled by the driver > software for the controller and not necessarily game dependant. > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[Sorry but my ISP's newserver died and ate the original post.]
Well, USB does have something to do with it. Yes it is "simply a type of
connector", but it allows for more inputs (+ outputs) than the standard
gameport (4 buttons and 4 axes). So the expanded amount of input makes
for interesting possibilities beyond the stardard fare we are used to in
game controllers.
Now we begin to talk "the chicken or the egg". . . If the capabilities
were there (for example gated shifter), would the game programmers
utilize it? If they are not present, would the game programmers program
a gated shifter anyway?
That's were the controller driver/software comes in.
<snip>
Again we have the chicken or egg issue. However, until then, it would
be up to the wheel manufacturer to provide pre-programmed profiles for
most common software products that don't directly support any of the new
features. Don't laugh, but the Space Orb 360 attempted to do this very
thing with their pre-set (and downloadable) profiles. Their software
also included a fairly decent interface for the user to program the
device for various "legacy" games (and don't ask me why, but Indycar II
was one of the pre-programmed profiles <G>).
And to make matters simple, how about a "snap-on" template that could be
placed over the "gate" to turn the shifter back to a simple "sequential
shifter", for legacy/simple-minded games/users?
Again, which comes first? Besides, don't underestimate the
programmer/hardware engineers out there. Just because you don't see a
logical solution, doesn't mean someone isn't having a "Eureka" moment
right this very minute. <G>
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
