A quick poll, about LAN racing vs Internet

Please take a minute to look this over. I know I haven't posted much but have been reading most posts, and everybody seems to be on the same page as far as trying to help everybody else get the most out of their systems to have the best experience possible. Well here is my poll; If you could go somewhere locally, that has say 20 systems setup specifically for multi-player, (similar to Silicon Motor Speedway - www.smsonline.com, but not on quite as grand a level as that. Each person would have their own pod (go to www.thunderseat.net, and check out the pods), to completely immerse themselves into the games. You could race seasons, single races, different games, flight sims, deathmatch games such as Quake, any multiplayer game. You wouldn't have allot of the problems with internet latency and other problems with internet racing that I have been reading about. If a place like this existed, and was setup properly, would you consider going there to race? How much would you feel is a reasonable price? Pricing could be per season, per race, per hour, think about how much you are spending on ten. I'm not saying quit the internet, because that's just not feasible, but this would be an alternative for people who maybe don't have the most current and up to date systems, and are a little disheartened by the whole thing. I live in Denver, CO and am seriously looking into this and would really appreciate any and all input and suggestions anyone would be willing to give. If you have taken the time to read this I really do appreciate your patience as I know it seems a little long. Please email me with all comments and suggestions; Chad Brown Denver, CO

Hi Chad, I see a franchise in the making :-). I have been mulling over how to best implement an in-house deal like this of my own for a while now. My office currently has a 20 port hub, 4 out of 10 workstations capable of at least N2, and 3 wheel/pedal setups. My buds & I do quite a bit of racing here after hours (N2 & SODA-what a blast!), but due to "a little" more seat time than them ;-), I really do still enjoy the competition on TEN, especially at www.fsspro.com. Anyway, I have been thinking about how to organize an in-house league, where people can bring in their hdwe & wheel/pedal provided they have a Network Card. I just don't believe there are enough *** N2/N99 drivers in the Twin Cities area to get it pulled off. Maybe there is, but it's a heck of an undertaking to advertise & administer something like this. I do have considerable experience with administering "Friendly" get togethers, if I can be any help, let me know. I also have quite a few laps in at SMS (Mall of America), but just have a hard time with the $$$$ thing. They have a pretty good thing going there, but I can't imagine what the initial outlay was for the hardware (computers, controllers, store fronts, plus who knows what else, WOW!). Hope you get some more responses, but from what I've seen here for a couple years, there just aren't that many LAN groups around. Even Papy appearantly (??) had that feeling, judging by no LAN support for N99, [how'd they do that, aren't all new sims MP ready??]. E-mail me w/any add'l stuff if you'd like. Happy Holidays, Wade Tschida W_Tschida on TEN

Chad, you have a noble (and capitalistic ;-) idea, but from my seat I have no problems with Internet ***... on an ISDN line. Since we're in r.a.s. I'll confine it to GPL... I simply see few Internet problems for those that are on a digital line or a high-quality analog setup (altho the latter can vary). A 'friend' of mine and I have wonderful lag-free GPL races on VROC... I'm on the U.S. West Coast and he's in England... but we're both on ISDN. If you're lurking, Matt, then Hallo! <g>. Not to shoot your idea down, but those who are disenheartened might save up that 100 bucks or so per month for an arcade approach and apply it to a system upgrade and/or a digital line of some sort. And race or sim or whatever at their pleasure. A lot of the latency problems are due to low-end approaches. As in anything (including arcade *** ;-), you get what you pay for. Oh. The answer. In my case, no. Rgds, Mark On Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:51:13 -0700, "Chad Brown"

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>Please take a minute to look this over. I know I haven't posted much but >have been reading most posts, and everybody seems to be on the same page as >far as trying to help everybody else get the most out of their systems to >have the best experience possible. >Well here is my poll; >If you could go somewhere locally, that has say 20 systems setup >specifically for multi-player, (similar to Silicon Motor Speedway - >www.smsonline.com, but not on quite as grand a level as that. Each person >would have their own pod (go to www.thunderseat.net, and check out the >pods), to completely immerse themselves into the games. >You could race seasons, single races, different games, flight sims, >deathmatch games such as Quake, any multiplayer game. You wouldn't have >allot of the problems with internet latency and other problems with internet >racing that I have been reading about. >If a place like this existed, and was setup properly, would you consider >going there to race? How much would you feel is a reasonable price? >Pricing could be per season, per race, per hour, think about how much you >are spending on ten. I'm not saying quit the internet, because that's just >not feasible, but this would be an alternative for people who maybe don't >have the most current and up to date systems, and are a little disheartened >by the whole thing. >I live in Denver, CO and am seriously looking into this and would really >appreciate any and all input and suggestions anyone would be willing to >give. If you have taken the time to read this I really do appreciate your >patience as I know it seems a little long. >Please email me with all comments and suggestions; >Chad Brown >Denver, CO

Check out www.other-side.com for just such a facility (although they only have about 3 (AFAIK) driving stations in their flagship Lynnwood, WA store (Near Seattle). They have 20 "Pods" with 31 inch screens for flight sims and other types of games though ;) They provide scenarios with a roleplaying element. A lot of regulars play (particularly those who don't own computers), but they also cater to groups (the "guys from work") or "teambuilding" things. The price, by the way, works out to around $14/hour. Which seems reasonable given rent, salaries, capital, etc. Though probably not what you wanted to hear... The Seattle area has another similar facility across the lake, "The Continuum" (http://www.thecontinuum.com/) that I'm less familiar with. - Matt

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> Please take a minute to look this over. I know I haven't posted much but > have been reading most posts, and everybody seems to be on the same page as > far as trying to help everybody else get the most out of their systems to > have the best experience possible. > Well here is my poll; > If you could go somewhere locally, that has say 20 systems setup > specifically for multi-player, (similar to Silicon Motor Speedway - > www.smsonline.com, but not on quite as grand a level as that. Each person > would have their own pod (go to www.thunderseat.net, and check out the > pods), to completely immerse themselves into the games. > You could race seasons, single races, different games, flight sims, > deathmatch games such as Quake, any multiplayer game. You wouldn't have > allot of the problems with internet latency and other problems with internet > racing that I have been reading about. > If a place like this existed, and was setup properly, would you consider > going there to race? How much would you feel is a reasonable price? > Pricing could be per season, per race, per hour, think about how much you > are spending on ten. I'm not saying quit the internet, because that's just > not feasible, but this would be an alternative for people who maybe don't > have the most current and up to date systems, and are a little disheartened > by the whole thing. > I live in Denver, CO and am seriously looking into this and would really > appreciate any and all input and suggestions anyone would be willing to > give. If you have taken the time to read this I really do appreciate your > patience as I know it seems a little long. > Please email me with all comments and suggestions; > Chad Brown > Denver, CO

I'm inclined to agree with Mark on this one. The near future (say 5 years) will see many people on ISDN/Cable/ADSL or something new and better. Also, software workarounds for latency problems improve with each new generation of sims. So even if this proves a go-er in the short term, I do not see it being needed in 5 years. Paul >from my >seat I have no problems with Internet ***... on an ISDN line. >Since we're in r.a.s. I'll confine it to GPL... I simply see few >Internet problems for those that are on a digital line or a >high-quality analog setup (altho the latter can vary).

Im inclined to think this idea would work out great. Not to put internet racing down, but i like this idea better. Its not cause i get bad connections, i get good connections, but theres not as much interaction between people. Its like my other love in the racing world of Slotcars. Now, you could just run your race online via a simulator for slotcars. But that would, to me, take alot of the fun out of it. You wouldnt have the "guys night out" atmosphere, which is one thing i love about it. Were all friends there (with some exceptions) that all enjoy slotcars. Plus its all alot more hands on. Sure you could spend alot of time and money at the track practicing but its not really possible. Im not saying Sim racing isnt fun. I LOVE Sim racing. Its probably as close to driving a racecar as i will ever get. Im just saying that a place to go would "enhance" the experiance. Kinda like a real race team going to the track. Plus you could get people in there who dont have a computer at home but want to race. SO in my opinion its a great idea. But as of now it would be very hard to do because of the lack of Sim racers in any given area. Just my two cents worth. Chris

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>> Please take a minute to look this over. I know I haven't posted much but >> have been reading most posts, and everybody seems to be on the same page as >> far as trying to help everybody else get the most out of their systems to >> have the best experience possible. >> Well here is my poll; >> If you could go somewhere locally, that has say 20 systems setup >> specifically for multi-player, (similar to Silicon Motor Speedway - >> www.smsonline.com, but not on quite as grand a level as that. Each person >> would have their own pod (go to www.thunderseat.net, and check out the >> pods), to completely immerse themselves into the games. >> You could race seasons, single races, different games, flight sims, >> deathmatch games such as Quake, any multiplayer game. You wouldn't have >> allot of the problems with internet latency and other problems with >internet >> racing that I have been reading about. >> If a place like this existed, and was setup properly, would you consider >> going there to race? How much would you feel is a reasonable price? >> Pricing could be per season, per race, per hour, think about how much you >> are spending on ten. I'm not saying quit the internet, because that's just >> not feasible, but this would be an alternative for people who maybe don't >> have the most current and up to date systems, and are a little disheartened >> by the whole thing. >> I live in Denver, CO and am seriously looking into this and would really >> appreciate any and all input and suggestions anyone would be willing to >> give. If you have taken the time to read this I really do appreciate your >> patience as I know it seems a little long. >> Please email me with all comments and suggestions; >> Chad Brown >> Denver, CO

> The Seattle area has another similar facility across the > lake, "The Continuum" (http://www.thecontinuum.com/) > that I'm less familiar with. > - Matt Sorry, the correct URL is http://www.the-continuum.com/

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>Hi Chad, > I see a franchise in the making :-). I have been mulling over how to >best implement an in-house deal like this of my own for a while now. My >office currently has a 20 port hub, 4 out of 10 workstations capable of at >least N2, and 3 wheel/pedal setups. My buds & I do quite a bit of racing >here after hours (N2 & SODA-what a blast!), but due to "a little" more seat >time than them ;-), I really do still enjoy the competition on TEN, >especially at www.fsspro.com. Anyway, I have been thinking about how to >organize an in-house league, where people can bring in their hdwe & >wheel/pedal provided they have a Network Card. I just don't believe there >are enough *** N2/N99 drivers in the Twin Cities area to get it pulled >off. Maybe there is, but it's a heck of an undertaking to advertise & >administer something like this. I do have considerable experience with >administering "Friendly" get togethers, if I can be any help, let me know. I >also have quite a few laps in at SMS (Mall of America), but just have a hard >time with the $$$$ thing. They have a pretty good thing going there, but I >can't imagine what the initial outlay was for the hardware (computers, >controllers, store fronts, plus who knows what else, WOW!). Hope you get >some more responses, but from what I've seen here for a couple years, there >just aren't that many LAN groups around. Even Papy appearantly (??) had that >feeling, judging by no LAN support for N99, [how'd they do that, aren't all >new sims MP ready??]. E-mail me w/any add'l stuff if you'd like. >Happy Holidays, >Wade Tschida >W_Tschida on TEN

Geez, if people can run Doom or Quake LAN parties, why not racing games? I've thought about it too, but location seems to be a problem. In offices/companies where network connections are easy, the company would probably frown on that. In homes, you wouldn't have anough room. And, rent would cost too much on a building specifically for that... So, how do the Quake people do it...? Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>Oh. The answer. In my case, no. Likewise. We have a few internet cafes here in Edinburgh and they run LAN *** nights, and we also have an example of what you are proposing - a centre dedicated to ***, with high spec PCs, LAN and internet linked etc etc. I've tried them and they're occasionally fun for Quake competitions, but that's about it. Annoying things are that you need to reset your config everytime, the mouse isn't yours, the screen and gamma are different, you don't have your setups handy (need to load from floppy) you can't save replays easily and take them home, basically a load of problems that you don't have when you're at home. Added to that the fact that you will race only the people local to you rather than, like last night, where I hooked up with people from U.S.A., Brazil, Germany, England, Holland and all over to run some GPL races and it looks more limited than online. Personally I find internet racing with CPR, GPL, MTM, F1RS and N2 to be above "acceptable", and I see things as only getting better in future with ADSL and cable connections becoming more common - increasing bandwidth and reducing latency. A game centre like that would have been a hit in the days of Doom, Doom2 and even Quake, but now it's time has passed IMO. For sure a LAN meet is always great and I really like doing that, but it's becoming less and less about the *** (since lower latency and cheaper connect makes frequent racing easily accesible) and more about just meeting all the people you know. Cheers! John

Actually the rent on a confrence room is not as high as you might think. I use to operate arageddon-*** in CA. "Arma" was a monthly LAN group of about 300 that met for 3 years to play numerous games, Doom/Quake being the biggest of course. The costs are really in the equipment and planning, rent itself is usually only about $1000 for a 3000 sq ft room for one day. I am on the East Coast now, and would be willing to organize something like this in the future if enough interest from sim-racers. I really dont like Quake style games, so Sim-racing would be the only thing that I would consider doing this again for. I still have the equipment for a 100mb LAN for up to 500 computers with sub-10ms pings. I could probably even pull some old sponsors out of my hat to finance the gig, but it really comes down to interest from you all. Are you interested? Where do you live?