I've been running novice races at Spa, Watkins Glen and Monza. I'm
getting to grips with the car and have finally done a sub 1:30 at Monza.
I have recently switched from a Lotus to an Eagle to prevent the car
blowing up on me all the time and this has worked at novice level. Now I
want to switch to longer races, but with the advanced damage model, even
the Eagle blows up on me all the time. How can I stay fast but keep my
car alive for a whole race. The AI cars seem to be able to go faster
with the Advanced damage model and I need to be able to keep up.
Paul
Quoted text (9 lines)
>I've been running novice races at Spa, Watkins Glen and Monza. I'm >getting to grips with the car and have finally done a sub 1:30 at Monza. >I have recently switched from a Lotus to an Eagle to prevent the car >blowing up on me all the time and this has worked at novice level. Now I >want to switch to longer races, but with the advanced damage model, even >the Eagle blows up on me all the time. How can I stay fast but keep my >car alive for a whole race. The AI cars seem to be able to go faster >with the Advanced damage model and I need to be able to keep up. >PaulQuoted text (13 lines)
>>I've been running novice races at Spa, Watkins Glen and Monza. I'm >>getting to grips with the car and have finally done a sub 1:30 at Monza. >>I have recently switched from a Lotus to an Eagle to prevent the car >>blowing up on me all the time and this has worked at novice level. Now I >>want to switch to longer races, but with the advanced damage model, even >>the Eagle blows up on me all the time. How can I stay fast but keep my >>car alive for a whole race. The AI cars seem to be able to go faster >>with the Advanced damage model and I need to be able to keep up. >>Paul >Sounds like you're running your revs too high, or not lifting when you shift, >and thereby damaging your engine. These cars die pretty quickly if you abuse >their engines.Quoted text (14 lines)
>>>I've been running novice races at Spa, Watkins Glen and Monza. I'm >>>getting to grips with the car and have finally done a sub 1:30 at >>>Monza. I have recently switched from a Lotus to an Eagle to prevent >>>the car blowing up on me all the time and this has worked at novice >>>level. >>...snip >>Sounds like you're running your revs too high, or not lifting when >>you shift, and thereby damaging your engine. These cars die pretty >>quickly if you abuse their engines. >You may also want to keep in mind that the Eagle has poor reliability >to begin with. At least, that's what I remember from the .ini files.During the 1967 season the Eagle DNFd something like 10 of 12
races. GPL actually models this reliability. There's a reason
Brabham won the Championship.
I think this is really neat. You have to balance speed versus
reliability, rather than just pick the fastest car. If you don't.
there must be a way to get in and adjust this.
bob
Still you *can* finish with the Eagle reliably if you are gentle with her.
It happened to me too at first when I switched from novice damage to
realistic, but hasn't been a problem since.
I've finished many PRO short and long races with the Eagle and only recall
two engine problems, one was because I really abused the engine due to my
gearing selection for 5th being set too low, the other occured at Monaco
in a 28 lap PRO race when someone accidentaly rear-ended me on the 1st lap
and caused the engine damage, it started off minor, with rpm's not maxing etc.
but on the last 5 laps the engine was coughing and sputtering and wouldn't
go above the 9 o'clock position on the tach, still I nursed it succesfully
to finish in 4th place. I drive nothing but the Eagle, and race a good
percentage of the time in PRO realistic damage races.
I think maybe I am easier on the Eagle engine since I've driven no other
GPL car since release (drove Lotus to death in the demo) and never picked
up the bad habit of redlining the engine I see from watching in-car replays
of many Ferrari and Lotus drivers :-)
They key is to not take the RPMs out to the max, I usually shift at
around the 11 o'clock position on the tach, and you *must* let up on
the gas when shifting. Keep an eye on the Oil Temp and Water Temp gauges,
if you see them start creeping up too much then it means you have to back off
and shift early for a while until they come down.
To see the breaking point I setup a training session with realistic damage
and went out for a bit of dyno testing of the engine, abused the engine
and observed the gauges to see where the danger signs were and how to
tell when it was getting too hot up to the point of actual blowup.
I'm really glad Papyrus modeled this difference in reliability of the
different cars, I have had a satisfying moment in a PRO race of being
in 2nd place hounding the 1st place Lotus with no realistic chance of
getting by, but the extra push by the Lotus driver to stay ahead of me
overheated his engine causing a nice blowup and getting a nice view of
Ford pistons flying back from his engine, then cruising by the retiring Lotus
driver waving with a nice smile on my face full of Oil :-)
Those Ferrari's do seem bulletproof though, too bad that engine reliability
comes at the cost of the top end power. The Eagle is a nice tradeoff, you
just have to be gentle.
Seeyas on the track.
--John (Joao) Silva
Quoted text (9 lines)
> During the 1967 season the Eagle DNFd something like 10 of 12 >races. GPL actually models this reliability. There's a reason >Brabham won the Championship. > I think this is really neat. You have to balance speed versus >reliability, rather than just pick the fastest car. If you don't. >there must be a way to get in and adjust this. > bobI agree with John especially about 11 o'clock shifting. I'm going to make a
set of dashboards with red danger areas and labels for all the cars as soon
as enough people send me the info.
Regards, Bill Tillman
Turn 1 Track & Touring
http://www.teleport.com/~billtill
etc.
off
Lotus
Quoted text (10 lines)
>Still you *can* finish with the Eagle reliably if you are gentle with her. >It happened to me too at first when I switched from novice damage to >realistic, but hasn't been a problem since. >I've finished many PRO short and long races with the Eagle and only recall >two engine problems, one was because I really abused the engine due to my >gearing selection for 5th being set too low, the other occured at Monaco >in a 28 lap PRO race when someone accidentaly rear-ended me on the 1st lap >and caused the engine damage, it started off minor, with rpm's not maxingQuoted text (14 lines)
>but on the last 5 laps the engine was coughing and sputtering and wouldn't >go above the 9 o'clock position on the tach, still I nursed it succesfully >to finish in 4th place. I drive nothing but the Eagle, and race a good >percentage of the time in PRO realistic damage races. >I think maybe I am easier on the Eagle engine since I've driven no other >GPL car since release (drove Lotus to death in the demo) and never picked >up the bad habit of redlining the engine I see from watching in-car replays >of many Ferrari and Lotus drivers :-) >They key is to not take the RPMs out to the max, I usually shift at >around the 11 o'clock position on the tach, and you *must* let up on >the gas when shifting. Keep an eye on the Oil Temp and Water Temp gauges, >if you see them start creeping up too much then it means you have to backQuoted text (13 lines)
>and shift early for a while until they come down. >To see the breaking point I setup a training session with realistic damage >and went out for a bit of dyno testing of the engine, abused the engine >and observed the gauges to see where the danger signs were and how to >tell when it was getting too hot up to the point of actual blowup. >I'm really glad Papyrus modeled this difference in reliability of the >different cars, I have had a satisfying moment in a PRO race of being >in 2nd place hounding the 1st place Lotus with no realistic chance of >getting by, but the extra push by the Lotus driver to stay ahead of me >overheated his engine causing a nice blowup and getting a nice view of >Ford pistons flying back from his engine, then cruising by the retiringQuoted text (21 lines)
>driver waving with a nice smile on my face full of Oil :-) >Those Ferrari's do seem bulletproof though, too bad that engine reliability >comes at the cost of the top end power. The Eagle is a nice tradeoff, you >just have to be gentle. >Seeyas on the track. >--John (Joao) Silva >> During the 1967 season the Eagle DNFd something like 10 of 12 >>races. GPL actually models this reliability. There's a reason >>Brabham won the Championship. >> I think this is really neat. You have to balance speed versus >>reliability, rather than just pick the fastest car. If you don't. >>there must be a way to get in and adjust this. >> bobIn helping me decide about which car to use in an off-line series, I did
some research a while back as to the reliability of the various cars
from the actual 1967 season. Here are my results ....
First I looked at the percentage of laps completed. To calculate this I
added the number of laps each car actually completed to get the
numerator. The divisor is a little more complicated. If the car was
still running at the end, I just added the number of laps completed.
Similarly, if the car was in an accident, I just added the number of
laps completed. If the car had a mechanical DNF, I added the total
number of laps in the race. There are some minor flaws in this - you
can get a 100% reliability rating if you crash out early; problems that
cause the car to dramatically slow, but still allow the car to finish,
are not reflected, etc. Here are my findings for this approach:
1) Ferrari 95.7%
2) Brabham 89.7%
3) Honda 80.2%
4) Cooper 68.8%
5) Lotus 68.1%
6) BRM 64.5%
7) Eagle 36.4%
Second, I looked at the percentage of DNFs. If a car crashed out, I did
not count it at all for the race. So this calculation is the number of
times the cars was running at the end divided by the number of starts
for the car minus the number of times the car DNF'ed due to an accident
(not a mechanical failure).
1) Ferrari 85.7%
2) Brabham 81.8%
3) Cooper 58.5%
4) Honda 55.6%
5) BRM 41.9%
6) Lotus 40.9%
7) Eagle 18.8%
No matter how you look at it, Ferrari and Brabham were by far the most
reliable cars and the Eagle was down right pitiful. As bad as the Lotus
looks in these figures, it was actually even worse because a few times
Clark was leading only to have a non-fatal malfunction that cost him the
lead, but didn't cause a complete DNF.
I hope someone finds this interesting and/or useful.
Dave Ewing
That would be a great benefit Bill, please post here when they are
eventually available.
Thanks.
Seeyas on the track.
--John (Joao) Silva
Quoted text (7 lines)
>I agree with John especially about 11 o'clock shifting. I'm going to make a >set of dashboards with red danger areas and labels for all the cars as soon >as enough people send me the info. >Regards, Bill Tillman >Turn 1 Track & Touring >http://www.teleport.com/~billtillYes, very interesting, still I'm curious which car you went with
for your league racing? Ferrari?
I race in Edwin Solheim's IGPLC online league F2 division, we are
3 races into the season, each PRO damage race so far lasting about
45 minutes actual race time (not including practice), and I have not
seen any engine blowups in our F2 races so far (Spa this weekend
may be the first engine killer), although I think the folks in the
F1 and F3 divisions had a few Lotus and Eagle blowups in the first
race at Kyalami.
This thread actually reminds me to go and do some testing of the
5th gear in my Eagle setup at Spa, I ran a few 9 lap PRO races there
with no engine problems but this weekend's race will be PRO 13 laps, I
better make sure that my Eagle engine can stand being topped out
in my current settings for 5th gear for 13 laps before race day...
I've got to schedule some track time right away.
If you want to look at some race results data for the different cars
in our online races so far check:
http://home.sol.no/~kareknut/resultsf1.htm
A nice assortment of drivers with different car makes, and especially notable
is Jason Crossley who leads the F3 point standings in his BRM nice to see it
can win reliably.
Seeyas on the track.
--John (Joao) Silva
SNIP!>
> Yes, very interesting, still I'm curious which car you went with
> for your league racing? Ferrari?
This is Bruce K's Historical Motor Racing Championship, by the way, and
it was a tough decision. I probably would have gambled on the Lotus,
but the Lotus drivers have to use the BRM until Zandvoort for historical
accuracy, so I didn't use that. As much as I like the Eagle, it seemed
too risky given its reliability (we're racing Pro Long - Realistic
damage). I've been really inconsistent with the Brabham, although it is
very versatile and reliable. The Ferrari is fun to drive on lots of
tracks, but I found that I'm faster with the Coventry using Alison's
setups on a surprising number of circuits, so I went with it. I was
really torn, because I'm a big Ferrari fan.
Dave Ewing
Wow interesting! Nice to see the Coventry in league racing, I'm also a
Tifosi, huge Ferrari fan and actually that was the first car I tried
as soon a GPL came out, I drove the Ferrari at the Nurburgring, but I
found the engine *too* loud and I couldn't hear the tires locking up,
so I tried the Eagle and liked it it's combination of top end and civil
handling, so I once I entered into a league using the Eagle, I decided
to simulate driving for Dan's team for the first season and not drive
the other cars. Maybe after the first season I will go on to the Ferrari
or BRM.
Do you happen to have the URL for the Historic league site?
It is pretty interesting to look up these league results and see
how people you've raced with on VROC and Pro Racing Club do in
the online leagues.
I'll let you know as the season progresses how the Eagle works for
me, in the F2 division we are also running with PRO Long realistic damage
but with adjusted settings in 67season.ini to make the Long races longer,
for example this weekend's Spa will be 13 laps compared to the normal 9
laps for the default PRO Long settings, usually the settings work out
to a 45 minute race from green flag to checker flag.
So far so good on the Eagle reliability 3 races down 8 to go, hope to keep
the good luck going, and compile some more data on it's reliability compared
to Ferrari and Lotus which we have an decent number of in each race.
Seeyas on the track.
--John (Joao) Silva
The HMRC URL is http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/Index.htm
There's also a lot of interesting stuff about historic f1 in addition to
the GPL league. I just completed my first race (Kyalami). I ended up a
lap down, with one minor off. I was racing against the unedited AI. I
might have to turn down the AI using the official HMRC sanctioned AI
tweaks for the race at Monaco.
There were a lot of mechanical DNF's with the non-AI Ferrari's, it
seems, which is kind of surprising.
Note: the league is full, so please don't bombard Bruce with requests to
join.
Dave Ewing
> Do you happen to have the URL for the Historic league site?
> It is pretty interesting to look up these league results and see
> how people you've raced with on VROC and Pro Racing Club do in
> the online leagues.
